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Thread: 2014 off-season Compendium

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Hey! Masai! Please no talk of trading draft picks!

    As soon as the season ended, the threads started for changes for next season - which is, like, awesome because what are we suppose to do now?

    One thing that alarms me is the number of people saying trade #20 for "player".

    Here is why I think that is a horrible way to go:

    1) Colangelo. Have people already forgotten? If you have talent in identifying talent that will succeed at the NBA level, which both Weltman and Ujiri have and have built their careers upon, then you should be able to find talent in the first round.

    2) Value. Rookie contracts tend to offer the best bang for the buck.

    3) Flexibility. The rookie contracts offer a lot of talent relative to the money tying up a roster spot with value and allowing cap space for other areas such as facilitating trades or free agency.

    4) Time. A first round draft pick could be "stuck" with the franchise for 8-9 years due to restricted free agency. What better way to build than multiple, multiple seasons of development together.

    5) Baggage. A big part of the draft is personal and injury background checks. You get a feel for who you are bringing in. When you trade for guys who've been in the league - yes you do the same - but they might be coming from a culture of less desirable traits such as me-first, losing, etc. When you draft a guy you can mold him in to the professional you expect him to be.


    Now if you can trade for Kevin Love or Al Horford or *insert big name here*, well lets do that. But if you're talking someone unproven and still unknown at NBA level (say, Harrison Barnes?) forget about it! First round picks are too valuable in the new CBA of the NBA.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    So far Masai has shown a high level of patience. His drafting has been pretty good. His eye for talent has been pretty good. And his trades seem to have worked out more often then not. I don't see him making any "short term, mortgage the future" moves.

    He has a lot to think about over the summer and a lot more opportunities now. Several members of the Raps have elevated their trade value with their play this season and in the playoffs.

    I think he is looking at the finances for 2015/2016 season and will not hurt the Raptors chances to make a big signing then. He may make only slight changes next year, holding out for 2015/2016, but after having a taste of the first round, I think Toronto will want the second round next year. And I think some tweaking of the roster could get them there, along with continued growth of the team. If Lowry re-ups, then organic growth of the core, a decent back up center and either a productive wing without defensive liabilities or a PF could be enough. Hell, buying out John Salmons might be enough.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    So far Masai has shown a high level of patience. His drafting has been pretty good. His eye for talent has been pretty good. And his trades seem to have worked out more often then not. I don't see him making any "short term, mortgage the future" moves.

    He has a lot to think about over the summer and a lot more opportunities now. Several members of the Raps have elevated their trade value with their play this season and in the playoffs.

    I think he is looking at the finances for 2015/2016 season and will not hurt the Raptors chances to make a big signing then. He may make only slight changes next year, holding out for 2015/2016, but after having a taste of the first round, I think Toronto will want the second round next year. And I think some tweaking of the roster could get them there, along with continued growth of the team. If Lowry re-ups, then organic growth of the core, a decent back up center and either a productive wing without defensive liabilities or a PF could be enough. Hell, buying out John Salmons might be enough.
    except terrence ross, whose value probably plummeted mightily from his good play in the regular season (which basically didnt get any press at all) to how much he sucked in the playoffs (which got around the media everywhere). almost like the opposite of harrison barnes

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    except terrence ross, whose value probably plummeted mightily from his good play in the regular season (which basically didnt get any press at all) to how much he sucked in the playoffs (which got around the media everywhere). almost like the opposite of harrison barnes
    I can only hope teams derive their value calculations from game tape, not media exposure. Lots of Ross highlight reels, but yeah, his playoff performance sucked. On the other hand he might get a bit of a pass because of his previous lack of experience with pressure situations. And depending on how he comes out next year early in the season...does he work even harder on his game (maybe move in with the DeRozan family for the summer) and come out early in November and tear up the league, or does he only show incremental improvement?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    There's no doubt that Ross's value has dropped as a result of the last 7 games. All his regular season improvements are basically thrown out the window if he can't perform when the lights are brightest.

    What especially hurts is that Jonas, an equally inexperienced player, had a much easier transition from regular season to post season.

    If we trade Ross, doing it this summer would be a poor use of assets.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Ross, Fields, and Novak's stocks have all dropped this playoffs. Novak may still get some interest due to his elite 3 point shot.. but because of his deficiencies not sure if any team would take a flyer on him.

    Everyone else probably raised theirs. Salmons was useless but his $1M price tag for a $7 cap hold has to be worth a lot to teams.

    In terms of trading #20 I hope that doesn't happen either. But I will say the value of #20 is sky high. Teams are jizzing their pants trying to get into the 2014 draft.

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    Raptors Republic Starter JordanMariam14's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Ross, Fields, and Novak's stocks have all dropped this playoffs. Novak may still get some interest due to his elite 3 point shot.. but because of his deficiencies not sure if any team would take a flyer on him.

    Everyone else probably raised theirs. Salmons was useless but his $1M price tag for a $7 cap hold has to be worth a lot to teams.

    In terms of trading #20 I hope that doesn't happen either. But I will say the value of #20 is sky high. Teams are jizzing their pants trying to get into the 2014 draft.
    Ross still has value.. People will see him as a sophmore who just had playoff jitters, like we do.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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    Totally agree, unless we're talking about unloading picks for a Kevin Love package or something similar. If you can add a top-tier talent for one of DD/Ross, picks and filler, go nuts in my opinion (depending on the star and fit obviously).

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    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    It's hilarious how many people are willing to throw guys out after their first return to the playoffs. Yes Ross had a rough play off series but without him the raps aren't getting the 3 seed. Of course he has stuff he needs to work on but my God, he's a second year player!!!! And it's not he had a bunch of vets to lean on through the play offs. Holy shit. Here is a second year guy guarding deron Williams and Joe Johnson in his first play off series ever. Ya he struggled but who did better? John salmons? Landry? Derozan? Um. No one! Guarding guys like that and getting beat up while doing it will mess with a kids head so yeah be has some growing up to do. But I look at this kid and think about what kind of courage it.takes to be willing to step into that position and what kind of skills and potential he has for his coach to have faith and trust to put him in those positions. Everyone needs to relax a bit here.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    It's hilarious how many people are willing to throw guys out after their first return to the playoffs. Yes Ross had a rough play off series but without him the raps aren't getting the 3 seed. Of course he has stuff he needs to work on but my God, he's a second year player!!!! And it's not he had a bunch of vets to lean on through the play offs. Holy shit. Here is a second year guy guarding deron Williams and Joe Johnson in his first play off series ever. Ya he struggled but who did better? John salmons? Landry? Derozan? Um. No one! Guarding guys like that and getting beat up while doing it will mess with a kids head so yeah be has some growing up to do. But I look at this kid and think about what kind of courage it.takes to be willing to step into that position and what kind of skills and potential he has for his coach to have faith and trust to put him in those positions. Everyone needs to relax a bit here.
    I don't think anyone is asking to trade Ross.. I just think that his trade value is at an all time low because of how he played in the playoffs. I don't think MU would ever consider him an untouchable even after his regular season performance.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    What especially hurts is that Jonas, an equally inexperienced player, had a much easier transition from regular season to post season.
    Jonas has big-game experience (the Olympics, the FIBA under-18 world championships) and he benefited from being the biggest player on either team in the series. It's not exactly comparable, and besides, Jonas still stunk up the joint in at least two games.

  13. #12
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default The value of John Salmons (hint: it is not on the court)

    Not sure the deadline to pick up Salmons' team option for 2014-15, likely very close to the draft.



    Until that date, for the cost of a $1M cap hit, the Raptors can absorb in salary:

    1) $8.85M from any luxury tax team (125% + $100k)

    2) $10.6M from any team not in luxury tax (150% + $100k)

    3) About $20M ($62.3M *estimated new salary cap* MINUS $46M in guaranteed money *$39M + Salmons $1M plus + Hansbrough $1M + Amir $5M PLUS value of Salmons contract) HOWEVER this has to be done before any extension, signing of free agent, pick up of any option, etc. i.e. first thing on July 10th.


    If you want to go one step further, $2M cap hit (Hansbrough and Salmons) lets Raps absorb:

    1) $12.75M

    2) $15.3M

    3) over $20M




    For teams looking to shed money to become free agent players or get out of luxury tax before or after fielding a roster, that might look attractive!
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Jonas has big-game experience (the Olympics, the FIBA under-18 world championships) and he benefited from being the biggest player on either team in the series. It's not exactly comparable, and besides, Jonas still stunk up the joint in at least two games.
    Surprise, surprise! But I put that on Casey.

    Dude came out ready to play and Casey came out ready to harness him because he is 21...well, 22 tomorrow. Happy Birthday Jonas!
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    well I agree with Matt, I think we need to find a creative way to get a big two way SF.

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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    Surprise, surprise! But I put that on Casey.

    Dude came out ready to play and Casey came out ready to harness him because he is 21...well, 22 tomorrow. Happy Birthday Jonas!
    I don't think it's fair to blame Casey for that. Jonas had fine games to start the series and Casey gave him plenty of burn, only pulling him when it was clear Jonas was running out of gas and needed rest. (Maybe Casey was a little overcautious there but nothing unreasonable.) In the second half of the series Jonas simply stopped playing defense and his rebounding went to hell, and that's not on Casey at all.

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    I think OP needs to change his first post and thread title, the thread is clearly about trading Terrence Ross not about draft picks.

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default Marc Stein: Raptors Looking To Bring Vince Carter "Home".

    I haven't had much time to peruse the site last night or this morning, so I'm not sure if this has been posted already or not.

    Quote Marc Stein/ESPN wrote:
    5. Any offseason surprises in store from the Raps?

    There's a pretty tasty free-agent scenario in circulation ... if it comes to fruition.

    Word is that the Raptors have been kicking around the idea of making a free-agent play this summer to try to bring Vince Carter "home" by trying to sign the former face of the franchise away from the Mavericks.

    Be advised that Carter has been very happy in Dallas these past three seasons. Very happy. He's emerged as the emotional leader of Dirk Nowitzki's team at this late stage of his career and, by all accounts, wants to re-sign with Dallas.

    The Mavs, furthermore, are said to be just as interested in signing the 37-year-old to a new deal, especially after Carter capped his bargain three-year, $9 million pact with a a turn-back-the-clock series against the Spurs.

    I suppose this is where some Raptors diehards are going to follow up by berating me with loud claims that Vince would never be welcomed back north of the border after the circumstances surrounding his departure in 2004. But I ain't buyin' it. I've never bought that. Trying to sign him now, as a veteran sage on a young team, is precisely the sort of splash we know new Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment president Tim Leiweke loves to make.

    Makes too much sense for the Raps not to explore it.
    Source - Click here

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    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    ...

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    No surprise. Still hope it doesn't happen, for both basketball and non-basketball reasons.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I don't think it's fair to blame Casey for that. Jonas had fine games to start the series and Casey gave him plenty of burn, only pulling him when it was clear Jonas was running out of gas and needed rest. (Maybe Casey was a little overcautious there but nothing unreasonable.) In the second half of the series Jonas simply stopped playing defense and his rebounding went to hell, and that's not on Casey at all.
    Game 4 he struggled.

    Game 5 onwards Chuck Hayes played when it mattered most.

    Casey went with him until he screwed up and then the faith was lost.

    That is not how to inspire confidence or create positive reinforcement.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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