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Thread: 2014 off-season Compendium

  1. #61
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    Salmons for Prince and Memphis first rounder?
    I havent seen Prince play this year, but from what I saw of him before he was an above average defender at the three, something we could use after Joe Johnson killed us

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=p3z54nk

  2. #62
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    But..you have to remember that the contracts of Vasquez and Patterson are up in addition to qualifying offers for Ross and Valanciunas as well as a possible extension of Lowry. So, with all that being said, that figure is gonna look a bit more south of that.

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  3. #63
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    What if you can trade for a struggling young player still on his rookie contract?

    1st round pick for Barnes really gets me pretty excited. We know Barnes has the tools to play in the NBA, hopefully he could sustain it on the raptors.

    Barnes still has 2 years left on his rookie contract, then he becomes a RFA, so we could feasibly have him locked up for a long time.

    Barnes or Jerami Grant? It's hard to say. Barnes is only two years older...

  4. #64
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    What if you can trade for a struggling young player still on his rookie contract?

    1st round pick for Barnes really gets me pretty excited. We know Barnes has the tools to play in the NBA, hopefully he could sustain it on the raptors.

    Barnes still has 2 years left on his rookie contract, then he becomes a RFA, so we could feasibly have him locked up for a long time.

    Barnes or Jerami Grant? It's hard to say. Barnes is only two years older...
    I'd be willing to trade the lower of our own 2016 picks for Barnes, but not #20 in 2014. I just get the impression that 1st round picks this draft have more value (rightfully or wrongfully), and I'd much rather use it to move up or acquire a more established player, as much as I like Barnes.

    I'd rather even do something like Amir & #37, or something like that.

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I'd be willing to trade the lower of our own 2016 picks for Barnes, but not #20 in 2014. I just get the impression that 1st round picks this draft have more value (rightfully or wrongfully), and I'd much rather use it to move up or acquire a more established player, as much as I like Barnes.

    I'd rather even do something like Amir & #37, or something like that.
    That would be pretty nice, and possibly doable. GSW very obviously needs help in the frontcourt. As fragile as Amir is, he's the Man of Steel compared to Bogut, and maybe Ezeli as well...and JO....God, what was GSW thinking this year with that unit?

  6. #66
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    That would be pretty nice, and possibly doable. GSW very obviously needs help in the frontcourt. As fragile as Amir is, he's the Man of Steel compared to Bogut, and maybe Ezeli as well...and JO....God, what was GSW thinking this year with that unit?
    And there were rumors that GSW were interested in a trade centered around Amir & Barnes, so who knows. Complete conjecture at this point whether either team would be interested, let alone both. With Amir's hustle at both ends, ability to guard both C & PF positions, and his 'summer 3', I think he'd fit quite nicely into GSW's lineup.

    It would open the starting PF spot for an upgrade, with Patterson still available for the backup PF spot. It may or may not make DeRozan more expandable; would be a great move regardless of whether both Ross & DeRozan stay or either is traded.

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    I'll accept that your wording was in error, just so long as we're clear that what you said is not true at all. The 8.85M value that you quoted, for example, is not a restriction on the Raps. They will not be a tax apron team, so they get the 150%.

    Your second point is definitely wrong.
    Can you provide something to show this other than your word? Don't get me wrong, you're usually right. However I recall reading a HoopsWorld.com chat with Larry Coon where he talks about trades with the point I stated. The jist of his chat was when it comes to trades, cap holds weren't used for a team holding Bird Rights of free agents.

    I've been reading through FAQ and everything with regards to cap holds relates to free agency.

    Now don't get me wrong, I very well could be wrong but it is rare when something becomes "a truth" in my mind without having read or come across it before.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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  8. #68
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    Quote Hello wrote: View Post
    Salmons for Prince and Memphis first rounder?
    I havent seen Prince play this year, but from what I saw of him before he was an above average defender at the three, something we could use after Joe Johnson killed us

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=p3z54nk
    Prince is washed up. He wasn't that bad this year, but he could be John Salmons useless by next season. And I don't know, you'd have to specifically have a target that falls on draft day to make that worthwhile. I really don't care to have Prince on this team.

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    And there were rumors that GSW were interested in a trade centered around Amir & Barnes, so who knows. Complete conjecture at this point whether either team would be interested, let alone both. With Amir's hustle at both ends, ability to guard both C & PF positions, and his 'summer 3', I think he'd fit quite nicely into GSW's lineup.

    It would open the starting PF spot for an upgrade, with Patterson still available for the backup PF spot. It may or may not make DeRozan more expandable; would be a great move regardless of whether both Ross & DeRozan stay or either is traded.

    Trade Amir for Barnes, and DD for Horford? That could work out well.

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  11. #70
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    I am against it.

    Some fans will have a lot of expectations from this 38 year old Carter and if things don't go right all the media focus will be on how Carter not playing well as opposed to how well the team is or other players on that team are doing.

    Just wait until fans start booing Carter when he starts playing badly and questioning his heart(we may have some of the best fans but we also have some of the worst haters in this league), this team could turn into a mess.

    Too much bad history, drama and blood there from this potential signing to it turning into a success story.

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  13. #71
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Trade Amir for Barnes, and DD for Horford? That could work out well.
    Valanciunas, Horford, Barnes, Ross and Lowry, with Patterson, Vasquez and #20 (and possibly VC) leading the bench brigade?

    Very intriguing...

  14. #72
    Raptors Republic Starter Scraptor's Avatar
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    I am against it.

    Some fans will have a lot of expectations from this 38 year old Carter and if things don't go right all the media focus will be on how Carter not playing well as opposed to how well the team is or other players on that team are doing.

    Just wait until fans start booing Carter when he starts playing badly and questioning his heart(we may have some of the best fans but we also have some of the worst haters in this league), this team could turn into a mess.

    Too much bad history, drama and blood there from this potential signing to it turning into a success story.
    I agree 100%. This has the potential to be a giant distraction.

    Even if he plays well, what if we unexpectedly start losing? He is going to be a lightning rod and this while thing turns toxic.

    I think many pro-Carter fans are underestimating just how fragile great team chemistry is. Look at the Pacers. They dump Granger and add Bynum/Turner and their whole season almost collapsed.

    Finally, I just don't like the signal this sends. Are we about winning basketball or are we about glamour and short term fixes? This feels like an LA move when we are--in basketball terms--a San Antonio-type market.

  15. #73
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I agree 100%. This has the potential to be a giant distraction.

    Even if he plays well, what if we unexpectedly start losing? He is going to be a lightning rod and this while thing turns toxic.

    I think many pro-Carter fans are underestimating just how fragile great team chemistry is. Look at the Pacers. They dump Granger and add Bynum/Turner and their whole season almost collapsed.

    Finally, I just don't like the signal this sends. Are we about winning basketball or are we about glamour and short term fixes? This feels like an LA move when we are--in basketball terms--a San Antonio-type market.
    Replacing Salmons with Carter makes undeniable basketball sense. The team would improve from that, hands down. It's not about glamour or short term fix. We need a veteran wing off the bench, Vince would fill that role nicely. Judging by what a beloved team player Vince is in Dallas, I think he'd be great for team chemistry.

    If Vince wants $5M a year tell him to fuck off. But if Vince will take $4M over 2 years, I think he fills a need nicely.

    It just comes down to whether you think the exposure would be positive nor negative. I think it would be overwhelmingly positive.

  16. #74
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    Can you provide something to show this other than your word? Don't get me wrong, you're usually right. However I recall reading a HoopsWorld.com chat with Larry Coon where he talks about trades with the point I stated. The jist of his chat was when it comes to trades, cap holds weren't used for a team holding Bird Rights of free agents.

    I've been reading through FAQ and everything with regards to cap holds relates to free agency.

    Now don't get me wrong, I very well could be wrong but it is rare when something becomes "a truth" in my mind without having read or come across it before.
    Well, for one, cap holds don't specifically have anything to do with free agents - they are placed on the "team salary." Team salary totals are what determines cap space for free agency and trades alike.

    If what you said were true, you'd see loads of teams doing sign and trades every year to circumvent the cap and utilize their players' Bird Rights to full effect.

  17. #75
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    As for evidence, it's from Coon's FAQ.

  18. #76
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Well, for one, cap holds don't specifically have anything to do with free agents - they are placed on the "team salary." Team salary totals are what determines cap space for free agency and trades alike.

    If what you said were true, you'd see loads of teams doing sign and trades every year to circumvent the cap and utilize their players' Bird Rights to full effect.
    Except consummating a trade in the NBA is extremely difficult at the best of times.

    It is also why you see so many deals agreed to on draft night but not completed until July 10/11th.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  19. #77
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    Vince just said in an interview with ESPN Dallas that he likes to sign with Dallas or go to a contender at this time in his career.

  20. #78
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Can find a younger guy that will do the same things, and hopefully defend better for the same price

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  22. #79
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Valanciunas, Horford, Barnes, Ross and Lowry, with Patterson, Vasquez and #20 (and possibly VC) leading the bench brigade?

    Very intriguing...
    I just drooled all over my screen.

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  24. #80
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    True. But I'm thinking more about the playoffs, and Terrence or DD can't guard biggers small forwards. It cost us the first round this season so there is no reason why it won't cost us in the playoffs next season. I do know we can get a good small forward in the draft but that player is going to take time to develop and will probably struggle hard in the playoffs like Terrence did. Everything we do at this point we should be thinking playoffs and how it will help us in the playoffs. But you are very correct that 2015 has the better prospects and we will have more cap space. I guess we can handle another first round exit if it means better things in the future.
    no idea why you think we should be planning like we're gonna play the same nets lineup in 2015 playoffs or something. how do you know the other team will have some crafty, beefy SF in their lineup? what if its some wirey, super athletic guy like kawhi leonard?

    and why would someone we draft automatically struggle hard in the playoffs just because one single player on this team did? no logic or sense at all.

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