View Poll Results: What is the absolute LOWEST pick in the 2014 draft that you'd take in exchange for Demar?

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  • #1 draft pick

    18 21.69%
  • #2 draft pick

    7 8.43%
  • #3 draft pick

    16 19.28%
  • #4 draft pick

    9 10.84%
  • #5 draft pick

    18 21.69%
  • #6 draft pick

    3 3.61%
  • #7 draft pick

    6 7.23%
  • #8 draft pick

    2 2.41%
  • #9 draft pick

    1 1.20%
  • #10 draft pick

    3 3.61%
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Thread: Demar for draft pick poll - don't freak out, read first

  1. #61
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    If we are signing Lowry, Vasquez and 2 Pat, then trading DD away for a draft pick will set us back at least 2-3 years. Who ever we draft, is not going to be as good as DD for at least another 2-3 years ... So for me, either #1 pick or nothing ...

  2. #62
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    And you know the Lakers would trade their pick for Derozan in a heartbeat

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    I doubt it.

  3. #63
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    Lakers do not want Lowry, Lakers will not trade their pick for DD. Just listen to ESPN 710 radio station and you would know what they are going after. They have their eyes on Kevin Love and Durant in 2 years.

  4. #64
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    I voted #4.

    Basically, I'm not convinced anyone below that will truly be able to dominate, and that's what this team needs, and what DeMar may never really be. I probably wouldn't want Embiid, but Wiggins, and Exum are guys I could see becoming able to take over a game. Maybe Parker too.

    I could maybe be convinced to go down to #5 for one of Randle or Vonleh, especially Vonleh if Masai is convinced he'll realize his potential....but that's about it. However, I figure if Masai is that sold on Vonleh, I'd just take him at #4 especially instead of Parker.

  5. #65
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    I doubt it.
    Depends really on where the pick is. If it's outside of top-5, I can really see the Lakers accepting a DD for pick trade. Do they want to waste Kobe's possibly last 2 seasons waiting for the pick to develop? Derozan is prefect. Local kid, all-star, contract not too taxing. However, would Ujiri take a pick that results in us selecting someone other than Wiggins or Parker but losing Derozan? I think not.

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  6. #66
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I don't disagree (and I'd add Phoenix to that list; they have so many picks this year they can trade themselves back into the 7-12 area of the lottery quite easily, they don't particularly need the top-three pick and if they get a top-three pick they'll also end up getting Minnesota's). But I think in order to pull Wiggins it's either that game plan or it's trading DeMar and a similar raft of picks. Because, really, when we're talking about trading into the lottery like this, we're only talking about Wiggins.
    exactly, unless you get Wiggins, don't trade DD for a pick.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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  8. #67
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    Nice idea, but this poll isn't taking into account the fact that Casey just received a big extension. So, unless veterans can go back into the draft, the whole proposition is doomed. lol.

    But seriously, wasn't T-Ross supposed to be Casey's hand-picked, NBA ready scorer a couple years back? Drafted for immediate need.

  9. #68
    Raptors Republic Starter bryan colangelo's Avatar
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Lakers do not want Lowry, Lakers will not trade their pick for DD. Just listen to ESPN 710 radio station and you would know what they are going after. They have their eyes on Kevin Love and Durant in 2 years.
    Whoever they pick better be damn special if they hope to lure Durant.

  10. #69
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    you definitely run a risk though.

    randle is great and a well refined product, but he struggles against length and doesn't play above the rim

    gordon's a great athlete but he's nowhere near as smoothe as Griffin was on the offensive end.

    and people say Vonleh is the biggest project of all of them, but he does show promise.

    i voted 5. because if i can have my pick of those guys, im interested, but if i have to take whichever one falls, i dunno...
    Everything is a risk and nothing is guaranteed - but we all know that.

    I'm a fan of any of Wiggins, Parker, Smart, Vonleh, Randle, or Exum. One of those guys are guaranteed to be there at 7 which is why I went with 7.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #70
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    Everything is a risk and nothing is guaranteed - but we all know that.

    I'm a fan of any of Wiggins, Parker, Smart, Vonleh, Randle, or Exum. One of those guys are guaranteed to be there at 7 which is why I went with 7.
    It's nice to be a fan of them, but only a couple of those guys (the first two) are supposed to have superstar level upside. I'm not swapping DeRozan for Smart, Vonleh, Randle or Exum because I want to mix things up.

    People need to remember that we're not in the same damn situation that Philadelphia was in last season. They were coming off a 34-48, losing season, and it was clear that they needed to rebuild. Jrue was dealt for a few reasons. First of all, since they wanted to tank, keeping him was counter-intuitive as he would contribute to an increased number of wins especially with his ability to make his teammates better at the PG position. Secondly, he was the highest value player on their team after just having made the all-star team. Thirdly they saw an opportunity to get a replacement at PG later in the draft. So they dealt Jrue for TWO (not one) TWO top 10 picks in subsequent drafts - #6 and #10 - (unless NOLA somehow moves from 10 to top 3)

    I would actually argue that DeRozan has higher value than Jrue did. Both were first-time all-stars, but DeRozan was an all-star for a playoff team and a top 3 seed in the conference. Additionally, DeRozan is an all-star at a position that is significantly more difficult to replace with a comparable talent. There are like 3 better shooting guards in the NBA (Wade, Kobe, Harden) and one guy who looks like he's going to be better pretty soon (Beal), whereas virtually every team in the NBA has a solid PG and there are a LOT that are better than Holiday (Lowry, Rose when healthy, Wall, Kyrie, Rondo, Parker, Westbrook, Paul, Lillard, Curry, Conley, Dragic, Lawson).

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  13. #71
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    I agree with the value, but I think a Jrue Holiday like trade where we get multiple top ten picks would be hard to get another team who will do that then be bad enough to give us multiple top ten picks.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  14. #72
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    I agree with the value, but I think a Jrue Holiday like trade where we get multiple top ten picks would be hard to get another team who will do that then be bad enough to give us multiple top ten picks.
    The 76ers also got a little lucky that like Jrue, Anderson, and Gordon were all injured for the majority of the year. Otherwise that pick is like #14/15 or possibly out of the lottery.

  15. #73
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    Quote bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
    Whoever they pick better be damn special if they hope to lure Durant.
    That is right .... People who are suggesting trading DD at this point of his career for a draft pick while wanting to get KD in 2 years can only be Haters ... You can not say you want to compete ( as this team will be by signing Lowry and ...) and then trade your ALLSTAR SG for a draft pick !!!

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  17. #74
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    That is right .... People who are suggesting trading DD at this point of his career for a draft pick while wanting to get KD in 2 years can only be Haters ... You can not say you want to compete ( as this team will be by signing Lowry and ...) and then trade your ALLSTAR SG for a draft pick !!!
    This is the first time I have fully agreed with you.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  18. #75
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    I hope everyone is aware that to lure Durant, we will need to let DeMar walk when he opts out that year. DeMar is not a piece to attract Durant with - if DeMar stays, we don't have the cap space for Durant. If he goes, we do. If he stays (say, via extension) and we try to sign and trade for Durant, the conversation will start and end with DeMar going the other way.

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  20. #76
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    I hope everyone is aware that to lure Durant, we will need to let DeMar walk when he opts out that year. DeMar is not a piece to attract Durant with - if DeMar stays, we don't have the cap space for Durant. If he goes, we do. If he stays (say, via extension) and we try to sign and trade for Durant, the conversation will start and end with DeMar going the other way.
    If we trade DeMar for a draft pick and that player is not a star within a season we have a 0% chance of getting Durant.

    2016 Offseason (As things currently stand):

    DeRozan: 14.25M Cap Hold
    Lowry: 11M
    Jonas: 11.65M Cap Hold
    Ross: 8.88M Cap Hold
    2014, 2015, 2016 1st Round Picks (2 in 2016): 5M
    4 Empty Spots Roster Charge: 2.17M
    TOTAL: $52.95M

    I think I included everything. The salary cap in 2016-17 is projected to be around 70M if it continues to increase at the same rate as it will from 14/15 to 15/16 (http://newsok.com/kevin-durant-imagi...rticle/4815024). If anyone has a better estimate link me to it I've been searching for a while.

    With that said, a Durant max deal would start at 21M, so we'd be 4M shy of being able to offer him a max. This could be mediated by signing Val and/or Ross to extensions in the 2015 offseason for less than the value of their 2016 cap holds (which is quite likely, say 6M a year for Ross and 10M for Jonas).

    So yes in theory we could keep Lowry, Ross, Val, DeRozan and our 4 1st round picks over the next 3 drafts and still sign Durant. It would just mean giving guys like Vasquez, Amir and 2Pat 2 year deals or 2 year + team option deals to avoid having that excess salary on the books.

  21. #77
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    I would actually argue that DeRozan has higher value than Jrue did. Both were first-time all-stars, but DeRozan was an all-star for a playoff team and a top 3 seed in the conference. Additionally, DeRozan is an all-star at a position that is significantly more difficult to replace with a comparable talent. There are like 3 better shooting guards in the NBA (Wade, Kobe, Harden) and one guy who looks like he's going to be better pretty soon (Beal), whereas virtually every team in the NBA has a solid PG and there are a LOT that are better than Holiday (Lowry, Rose when healthy, Wall, Kyrie, Rondo, Parker, Westbrook, Paul, Lillard, Curry, Conley, Dragic, Lawson).
    DeRozan's value is higher than Jrue's is, but it's worth remembering that Jrue's price ended up being a first-rounder that potentially wasn't going to be lottery (remember, New Orleans intended to compete this year, and they had a bad season injury-wise) and a lottery pick in what everybody more or less admitted in advance was the single weakest draft in a decade. I think a single top-ten pick in this year's draft, which is loaded with potential superstars, stars and impact players, is probably higher value than that or at least equivalent.

  22. #78
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    DeRozan's value is higher than Jrue's is, but it's worth remembering that Jrue's price ended up being a first-rounder that potentially wasn't going to be lottery (remember, New Orleans intended to compete this year, and they had a bad season injury-wise) and a lottery pick in what everybody more or less admitted in advance was the single weakest draft in a decade. I think a single top-ten pick in this year's draft, which is loaded with potential superstars, stars and impact players, is probably higher value than that or at least equivalent.
    Now, for sure.

    But at the time of the trade at last year's draft? Holiday was an all-star PG with tremendous physical tools and just 23. He was also locked up for 4 years compared to just 2 guaranteed for DD.

    I don't agree but I certainly hope you are correct!
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  23. #79
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    If we trade DeMar for a draft pick and that player is not a star within a season we have a 0% chance of getting Durant.

    2016 Offseason (As things currently stand):

    DeRozan: 14.25M Cap Hold
    Lowry: 11M
    Jonas: 11.65M Cap Hold
    Ross: 8.88M Cap Hold
    2014, 2015, 2016 1st Round Picks (2 in 2016): 5M
    4 Empty Spots Roster Charge: 2.17M
    TOTAL: $52.95M

    I think I included everything. The salary cap in 2016-17 is projected to be around 70M if it continues to increase at the same rate as it will from 14/15 to 15/16 (http://newsok.com/kevin-durant-imagi...rticle/4815024). If anyone has a better estimate link me to it I've been searching for a while.

    With that said, a Durant max deal would start at 21M, so we'd be 4M shy of being able to offer him a max. This could be mediated by signing Val and/or Ross to extensions in the 2015 offseason for less than the value of their 2016 cap holds (which is quite likely, say 6M a year for Ross and 10M for Jonas).

    So yes in theory we could keep Lowry, Ross, Val, DeRozan and our 4 1st round picks over the next 3 drafts and still sign Durant. It would just mean giving guys like Vasquez, Amir and 2Pat 2 year deals or 2 year + team option deals to avoid having that excess salary on the books.
    Sure, but then you are attracting Durant to a team with no PF and no backups at any position outside of those draft picks (who would add up to probably closer to 6 or 7M depending on where those picks end up), and considering the most optimistic projection of the cap that year is 69M, your math still doesn't add up, especially considering it will be very hard to sign JV to a 10M contract extension. So absolute best case scenario is looking like 54M committed leaving maybe 15 M in cap room. Durant won't sign for that.

  24. #80
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Sure, but then you are attracting Durant to a team with no PF and no backups at any position outside of those draft picks (who would add up to probably closer to 6 or 7M depending on where those picks end up), and considering the most optimistic projection of the cap that year is 69M, your math still doesn't add up, especially considering it will be very hard to sign JV to a 10M contract extension. So absolute best case scenario is looking like 54M committed leaving maybe 15 M in cap room. Durant won't sign for that.
    What? How would the team have no backups with 8 players on the roster pre-Durant. Ideally Ross moves to the bench, and three of our rookies would also be bench players (maybe a backup PG and backup C, idk), maybe one of those 4 picks pans out and becomes a starting caliber PF. The idea here is Ujiri and his staff are supposed to be good at drafting so we should be able to get contributors even if we are in the mid-late teens or even early twenties (see the Spurs, this is how they're able to supplement their team with great role players despite having TD, Parker and Manu on the books for big money a few years ago).

    Actually a cap projection of 69.8M is pretty realistic because it just assumes that the cap is going to increase by the same amount in 2016/17 as in 2015/16.

    The cap situation could also be resolved by simply just letting Ross walk as well... The fact is it's not impossible to get Durant if DeMar is still on this team. That insinuation is false and you're only saying it because you want DeMar gone.

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