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Thread: If you could pick any PF to pair with Jonas...

  1. #61
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Hearing Kevin Love is available...agent more or less demanded a trade.

    John Salmons, Chuck Hayes, Terrence Ross, 2014 1st round pick, 2016 1st round pick, 3 second round picks get it done?

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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Hearing Kevin Love is available...agent more or less demanded a trade.

    John Salmons, Chuck Hayes, Terrence Ross, 2014 1st round pick, 2016 1st round pick, 3 second round picks get it done?
    Unimpressive when you compare to what teams got for Melo, Deron, Dwight.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Unimpressive when you compare to what teams got for Melo, Deron, Dwight.
    trade demands have a way of lowering your value.

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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    trade demands have a way of lowering your value.
    Hello, Melo, Dwight, Deron. Deron didn't get to a point where he openly demanded a trade, it was a preemptive strike. The other two did demand a trade and made a mess out of it. Melo even pushed for a trade to one specific city. Can you imagine how much that lowers someone's value? Much more than the Love situation.

    That's why Masai is so respected for that trade. It wasn't just getting value for Melo, it was getting value under those circumstances. The current Love situation is a piece of cake compared to that. His "people" might've asked for a trade? It may be LA, or New York, or maybe some other place, no specific list? Ujiri would've loved to work under those circumstances with the Carmelo trade.

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Starter Scraptor's Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Hello, Melo, Dwight, Deron. Deron didn't get to a point where he openly demanded a trade, it was a preemptive strike. The other two did demand a trade and made a mess out of it. Melo even pushed for a trade to one specific city. Can you imagine how much that lowers someone's value? Much more than the Love situation.

    That's why Masai is so respected for that trade. It wasn't just getting value for Melo, it was getting value under those circumstances. The current Love situation is a piece of cake compared to that. His "people" might've asked for a trade? It may be LA, or New York, or maybe some other place, no specific list? Ujiri would've loved to work under those circumstances with the Carmelo trade.
    That's also why Dolan is so disrespected for that trade. His FO didn't want to pay through the nose when everyone knew Melo was going there anywhere. Dolan was a huge factor in what Masai netted for Denver for Melo.

    It was mainly shrewd scouting by Hennigan that turned the Howard deal into a plus; a lot of Magic fans were pissed initially. At the time Vucevic/Harkless/Afflalo didn't seem like much.

    The real problem with getting Love is that so many other teams seem to be super-interested... there will be a real bidding war if Love gives a promise to re-sign.

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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    That's also why Dolan is so disrespected for that trade. His FO didn't want to pay through the nose when everyone knew Melo was going there anywhere. Dolan was a huge factor in what Masai netted for Denver for Melo.

    It was mainly shrewd scouting by Hennigan that turned the Howard deal into a plus; a lot of Magic fans were pissed initially. At the time Vucevic/Harkless/Afflalo didn't seem like much.

    The real problem with getting Love is that so many other teams seem to be super-interested... there will be a real bidding war if Love gives a promise to re-sign.
    That's why looking at these trades matters. It gives some idea of what to expect as far as interest and bidding. Brooklyn got involved in a seemingly hopeless Melo case and helped raise the price. This time it might not be Brooklyn, but someone will show up and raise the price. It always happens. It's a superstar.

    Re Orlando trade. 3 1sts + 2 mid 1st prospects + Afflalo + some 2nds. If that pissed off Orlando fans, how will the Wolves fans feel when they see 2 late 1sts and Terrence Ross and some 2nds?

    Ignore the fact that some of Orlando's players overperformed. And ignore the fact that Dwight, Bynum, Iggy all left their teams by now, which is the main reason why that trade is valued so differently now.
    Even ignoring all that, 3 1sts + 2 prospects + a young starting veteran (Afflalo) is way more value than every Love trade idea I see.

    If the NBA was 2 teams, Wolves and Raptors, I could see Love being pretty cheap. A couple picks and Ross, that's probably better than keeping Love for a year with minimal chance of re-signing him. But in a 30 teams league I suspect he will cost more.

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    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    That's why looking at these trades matters. It gives some idea of what to expect as far as interest and bidding. Brooklyn got involved in a seemingly hopeless Melo case and helped raise the price. This time it might not be Brooklyn, but someone will show up and raise the price. It always happens. It's a superstar.

    Re Orlando trade. 3 1sts + 2 mid 1st prospects + Afflalo + some 2nds. If that pissed off Orlando fans, how will the Wolves fans feel when they see 2 late 1sts and Terrence Ross and some 2nds?

    Ignore the fact that some of Orlando's players overperformed. And ignore the fact that Dwight, Bynum, Iggy all left their teams by now, which is the main reason why that trade is valued so differently now.
    Even ignoring all that, 3 1sts + 2 prospects + a young starting veteran (Afflalo) is way more value than every Love trade idea I see.

    If the NBA was 2 teams, Wolves and Raptors, I could see Love being pretty cheap. A couple picks and Ross, that's probably better than keeping Love for a year with minimal chance of re-signing him. But in a 30 teams league I suspect he will cost more.
    I hope Ujiri makes an enticing but not really the best they can get offer for Love and makes some other team sell the farm to get him. Screw everyone else.
    @Boymusic66

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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    I hope Ujiri makes an enticing but not really the best they can get offer for Love and makes some other team sell the farm to get him. Screw everyone else.
    We should be involved just to raise the price and watch someone (hopefully in the East) completely screw themselves over.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post

    If the NBA was 2 teams, Wolves and Raptors, I could see Love being pretty cheap. A couple picks and Ross, that's probably better than keeping Love for a year with minimal chance of re-signing him. But in a 30 teams league I suspect he will cost more.
    If the NBA was two teams we wouldn't need Kevin Love. Both lineups would be stacked, and k love would most likely be a 3rd string PF, 6th man at best.

    Raps:
    Chris Paul
    Paul George
    Kevin Durant
    Lebron James
    Dwight Howard

    Blake Griffin
    Damian Lillard
    Tim Duncan
    Stephen Curry
    Paul millsap
    John Wall
    Joakim Noah
    D Wade

    Minny:
    Kyrie Irving
    James Harden
    Andre Igoudala
    Lamarcus Aldridge
    Al Jefferson

    Tony Parker
    Kevin Love
    Russell Westbrook
    Serge Ibaka
    Carmelo Anthony
    Derrick Rose
    Dirk Nowitzki
    Kobe
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    If the NBA was two teams we wouldn't need Kevin Love. Both lineups would be stacked, and k love would most likely be a 3rd string PF, 6th man at best.

    Raps:
    Chris Paul
    Paul George
    Kevin Durant
    Lebron James
    Dwight Howard

    Blake Griffin
    Damian Lillard
    Tim Duncan
    Stephen Curry
    Paul millsap
    John Wall
    Joakim Noah
    D Wade

    Minny:
    Kyrie Irving
    James Harden
    Andre Igoudala
    Lamarcus Aldridge
    Al Jefferson

    Tony Parker
    Kevin Love
    Russell Westbrook
    Serge Ibaka
    Carmelo Anthony
    Derrick Rose
    Dirk Nowitzki
    Kobe
    Good point, haha.

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    I like how it's just Kobe.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    I like how it's just Kobe.
    He got named just right to be remembered. Short name that is better than a nickname? Check. No famous performer has something close ala MJ? Check. Odd enough that it sticks in everyone's head? Check. A name which travels well internationally (there is a city called Kobe in Japan)? Check.

    It's so perfect a name I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually born Robert Zimmerman and just picked the perfect name himself
    @Boymusic66

  13. #73
    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    I like how it's just Kobe.
    It almost feels weird and unnecessary to write out the full thing.

    For exactly the same reasons TSF pointed out; everyone and their mother knows Kobe without having to say his last name.
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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    Raptors Republic Starter OptimalOptimist's Avatar
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    I want no part of trading assets for a soon to be free agent going to the Lakers.
    Myself (March 2014):
    The raptors are a tremendous young team and will win a championship in the following five years.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    For me, it's anyone who can demand a double-team in the post, and who is a strong rebounder. E.g Love, Bosh, Griffin, Randolph, etc.

    I don't think someone like Ibaka is a good fit. Solid player, but the offense would continue to be wing-heavy.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    I think it's impossible to answer this question right now.

    I feel like I really don't have a good idea of what Jonas is going to become.

    Will he be a rim-protector/rebounder who can occasionally create his own shot?

    Or will he be a strong post player who regularly commands double teams but can't ever carry a team defensively?

    This year, JV's shown flashes of both but failed to consistently deliver on either end.

    So I guess as of now, my ideal pairing would be a veteran who can teach him how to handle himself.

  18. #77
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    where Oakley at?

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  20. #78
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    I think it's impossible to answer this question right now.

    I feel like I really don't have a good idea of what Jonas is going to become.

    Will he be a rim-protector/rebounder who can occasionally create his own shot?

    Or will he be a strong post player who regularly commands double teams but can't ever carry a team defensively?

    This year, JV's shown flashes of both but failed to consistently deliver on either end.

    So I guess as of now, my ideal pairing would be a veteran who can teach him how to handle himself.
    I kinda feel the same way. If we do pick up a good low-post player that can demand double teams, then really, why on Earth should we be concerned with keeping Jonas? Is he gonna be a defensive or offensive stud? IMO, I think his offensive potential is greater than his defensive potential and I see JV as being the guy in the future that will be a post up presence for this team. That means he needs touches, consistently, and that needs to start next year. So I don't wanna see a guy brought in that will take those opportunities away from JV.

    Thats why I like Gibson. He can be the 4th/5th option on this team, good for a few post-ups each game, and not take too much away from JV opportunities, but still provide better offense than Amir can. He could be the pressure relief valve for the team, getting postup chances when JV and the perimeter guys are being held in check or are too tired to be effective. And it would a situation where you can give him the ball in the post and then give him room to operate. You can't do that with Amir. And Gibson could provide defence that is comparable to Amir's. He operates effectively in Thibs schemes, I see no reason to think he can't do the same in Casey's. Setting screens might be the only drop off and I can't say that for certain because I don't really know how well Gibson screens. I think guys like, Griffin, Love and Randolf, for example, could neuter JV and he would eventually want out if he isn't a big(ger) part of the offence. Bosh, however, would be interesting because he can stretch the floor, rarely operates in the low post, and is (apparently) a good PnR defender.

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  22. #79
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    For me, it's anyone who can demand a double-team in the post, and who is a strong rebounder. E.g Love, Bosh, Griffin, Randolph, etc.

    I don't think someone like Ibaka is a good fit. Solid player, but the offense would continue to be wing-heavy.
    Few problems with bosh, he hasn't been to the post since his toronto years and he is not a good rebounder. Like honestly, all he does is shoot threes and it looks like he lost a lot of weight since he was here
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