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Thread: Los Angeles Lakers and their draft pick.

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Haters insist on trading DD ... Now, for number 7 pick in the draft. Do you really think that player will be as good as DD ? Do you know how many years you have to wait till he develops ? How will that effect the chemistry of this team ?

    STOP HATING, DD is OUR BEST PLAYER and SHOULD NOT be traded for SCRUBS .... JUST DEAL WITH IT.
    Hypothetical scenario:

    What if the #7 pick is available and we draft a hidden SUPERSTAR and DD gets traded to LAL and proceeds to never make an all-star game again?

    Just sayin'

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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Hypothetical scenario:

    What if the #7 pick is available and we draft a hidden SUPERSTAR and DD gets traded to LAL and proceeds to never make an all-star game again?

    Just sayin'
    Hypothetical scenario:

    What if the #7 pick is available and it turns out to be a total bust and DD gets traded to LAL and proceeds to win MVP?

    Just sayin'
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Would be very stupid to trade DeRozan to the Lakers for this pick. The top 3 guys along with Exum and Vonleh (not that I would trade DeRozan for those two, but for argument's sake) will be gone by their pick. Makes zero sense to move DeRozan for a Randle or Smart tbqh.

  5. #44
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    Hypothetical scenario:

    What if the #7 pick is available and it turns out to be a total bust and DD gets traded to LAL and proceeds to win MVP?

    Just sayin'
    That's the point. Its all a crapshoot.

    Though come draft night if we think that player x at 7 will be better than DD then does it not make sense to do the trade?

    Blanket "we wont get anything better at x pick" statements are a little meh. This goes both ways too though

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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    That's the point. Its all a crapshoot.

    Though come draft night if we think that player x at 7 will be better than DD then does it not make sense to do the trade?

    Blanket "we wont get anything better at x pick" statements are a little meh. This goes both ways too though
    It's unlikely that a player will fall to #7 who Ujiri thinks is going to be better than DeRozan. Also we have to consider how much better than DeRozan that player is going to be. Are they going to be at about the same level or are we talking about a superstar talent? If it's the former, is it worth losing Lowry as well to acquire the player? Is it worth waiting 4-5 years for that player to develop?

    It's not as simple as shipping DeRozan as soon as we see something that might be better. The fact that you think that shows a lack of depth in your trade and draft evaluation, which frankly is not surprising seeing as you wanted to trade DeRozan for Waiters.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    It's unlikely that a player will fall to #7 who Ujiri thinks is going to be better than DeRozan. Also we have to consider how much better than DeRozan that player is going to be. Are they going to be at about the same level or are we talking about a superstar talent? If it's the former, is it worth losing Lowry as well to acquire the player? Is it worth waiting 4-5 years for that player to develop?

    It's not as simple as shipping DeRozan as soon as we see something that might be better. The fact that you think that shows a lack of depth in your trade and draft evaluation, which frankly is not surprising seeing as you wanted to trade DeRozan for Waiters.
    Continuing to state that trading DeRozan automatically means losing Lowry (and for nothing), is getting tired. You can't state that as an absolute. If Lowry didn't get upset seeing his best friend get traded, then I have to think that Lowry can separate the personal side from the business side. Plus, I would argue that it's definitely not automatic that trading DeRozan equates with the Raptors becoming a bottom-feeder next season.

    Not only would the Raptors be getting the #7 pick (in this scenario), but they'd still have the #20 and #37 picks. Who says they'd be done wheeling and dealing either? It could be the means to the end for something bigger. Bottom line is we have no idea. Nobody has ever said that the #7 pick alone must be better than DeRozan, since there are many other issues impacted when considering the long-term, including the generation of an additional $9.5M for the 2015 offseason (when Nash's contract comes off the books, at least a year earlier than DeRozan's contract).

    Whether you like the trade idea or not, you really can't truly judge the impact for at least a couple seasons. Personally, since I'm not a huge DeRozan fan and don't think this team as constructed has any hope in hell of even reaching the conference finals, I'd prefer to take a longer-term view of the team and think such a deal would make the team better 2-3 years from now.

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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    That's the point. Its all a crapshoot.

    Though come draft night if we think that player x at 7 will be better than DD then does it not make sense to do the trade?

    Blanket "we wont get anything better at x pick" statements are a little meh. This goes both ways too though
    Also, DD is NOT winning MVP in a league with the three absolutely dominant freaks of nature poised to win for the next 15 years- Lebron and Durant with a dark horse in Davis will battle for 3 more years, and then Durant and Davis will battle for a couple more, and then Davis will be alone.
    @Boymusic66

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Continuing to state that trading DeRozan automatically means losing Lowry (and for nothing), is getting tired. You can't state that as an absolute. If Lowry didn't get upset seeing his best friend get traded, then I have to think that Lowry can separate the personal side from the business side. Plus, I would argue that it's definitely not automatic that trading DeRozan equates with the Raptors becoming a bottom-feeder next season.
    Actually I can state it because it makes logical sense. I'm not sure how YOU can state that Lowry didn't get upset when Rudy was traded. You have no way of knowing that. If we had continued losing, he probably wouldn't even be considering re-signing with us now (if he wasn't traded during the season). It's not even about the personal aspect with DeRozan. Lowry wouldn't leave just because they're great friends, he would leave because trading DeRozan for a draft pick is a move that makes the team worse in the immediate future. Lowry is 28 and says he values winning. I don't think he's gonna stick around waiting for 2014 pick, Ross and JV to develop. He's going to go play with established players.

    Not only would the Raptors be getting the #7 pick (in this scenario), but they'd still have the #20 and #37 picks. Who says they'd be done wheeling and dealing either? It could be the means to the end for something bigger. Bottom line is we have no idea. Nobody has ever said that the #7 pick alone must be better than DeRozan, since there are many other issues impacted when considering the long-term, including the generation of an additional $9.5M for the 2015 offseason (when Nash's contract comes off the books, at least a year earlier than DeRozan's contract).
    2015 offseason is fine, that's not what Lowry is going to be looking at in free agency this year. I'm not in his head, but this is a guy that just missed a game-winner in game 7 of a playoff series. You think he doesn't want to be back there next year? Exchanging an all-star for an unproven player is not going to show Lowry that the team will be any better next season.

    Whether you like the trade idea or not, you really can't truly judge the impact for at least a couple seasons. Personally, since I'm not a huge DeRozan fan and don't think this team as constructed has any hope in hell of even reaching the conference finals, I'd prefer to take a longer-term view of the team and think such a deal would make the team better 2-3 years from now.
    I'm not judging the trade for the next few seasons. I didn't even say #7 for DeRozan is necessarily a bad trade long-term (although it likely is unless one of the top 3-4 prospects drops to that spot imo). What I'm saying is if you move DeRozan for a draft pick you are committing to a rebuild, because you are going to lose Lowry as well. Idk how you can argue otherwise.

  12. #49
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    ...What I'm saying is if you move DeRozan for a draft pick you are committing to a rebuild, because you are going to lose Lowry as well. Idk how you can argue otherwise.
    You can marshal all the arguments, that you make up in your own mind, but none of them prove that what you have said is true.

    Trading Bargs and Gay meant that the Raptors were in tank mode, except they weren't. Trading DD for the #7 pick, to you, means that the Raps are in the rebuild, except it might not. Trading DD for a rookie, and Nash or whoever will certainly remove DeMar's scoring punch, but guess what. Suddenly his 16 shots a game get redistributed. Suddenly the opposing teams doesn't have just one guy to key in on. Suddenly the defense might get better. And maybe MU has other moves that bring back another player of value.

    Not saying any of those things are true, but stating over and over again that trading DeMar means Lowry walks is an opinion. Just like the opinions folks has, across the league, that Barg's and Gay's contracts couldn't be moved.

    Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion unless you think people are stupid or wrong for not agreeing with you....At least recognize when you are drinking your own Kool Aid.

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion unless you think people are stupid or wrong for not agreeing with you....At least recognize when you are drinking your own Kool Aid.
    @Boymusic66

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Lowry is 28 and says he values winning. I don't think he's gonna stick around waiting for 2014 pick, Ross and JV to develop. He's going to go play with established players.
    Everyone values winning. Everyone values money too (except some monks and arts students). The team that offers Lowry the most will most likely get him, unless the difference is very small. In which case secondary factors might come into play (like winning, city, what the wife says).

    Lowry isn't some hall of famer chasing a ring. And he's generally been underpaid so far. He's made 29 mil over his whole career. He has a chance to almost triple his career earnings over the next 4 years. This is his big summer. To hear that Lowry would say "no" to Toronto simply because DeRozan gets traded for a rookie sounds wildly unrealistic to me.

    If you said that Kobe will take less money to play on a better team, I might believe it (just kidding). That's Kobe, Mr.Wants To Win, who's chasing Jordan and who's made near a billion dollars in salary and endorsements.

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    Ok if I could get some clarification here. What's the goal of moving DeRozan for the #7 pick?

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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Everyone values winning. Everyone values money too (except some monks and arts students). The team that offers Lowry the most will most likely get him, unless the difference is very small. In which case secondary factors might come into play (like winning, city, what the wife says).

    Lowry isn't some hall of famer chasing a ring. And he's generally been underpaid so far. He's made 29 mil over his whole career. He has a chance to almost triple his career earnings over the next 4 years. This is his big summer. To hear that Lowry would say "no" to Toronto simply because DeRozan gets traded for a rookie sounds wildly unrealistic to me.

    If you said that Kobe will take less money to play on a better team, I might believe it (just kidding). That's Kobe, Mr.Wants To Win, who's chasing Jordan and who's made near a billion dollars in salary and endorsements.
    It also ignores a number of games in the playoffs where the Raptors struggled with DeRozan playing ISO- and HERO- ball while making very strong runs with him on the bench.

    Puffer's post was one of the best I've read here in quite some time.

    DD traded does not mean or guarantee a rebuild nor does it mean Lowry walks.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Ok if I could get some clarification here. What's the goal of moving DeRozan for the #7 pick?
    Because apparently that 7th pick guy will be our new first option on offense. He will give us more efficient 20 points per game. Everything that Derozan does but better basically.

    Fair expectations

  19. #55
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    Personally I don't know if I would move DeRozan for the no.7 pick. I don't know these prospects well enough. I doubt that most people do either, so it all seems a bit moot. But if Ujiri feels excited enough about some prospect to do this trade, I'll become excited too. It's entirely plausible that someone much better long term than DeRozan could be available at no.7.

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    A few of you are trying to liken trading DeRozan to trading Rudy, saying that Lowry won't let that affect his decision because he'll put business/profession first before friendship.

    That's fine, and I agree that Lowry will put business/profession first. The difference is it's not the same situation at all. First of all Rudy was not playing as well as DeRozan played last season: sub 50% TS, more turnovers than assists, etc. Secondly, the Raptors were also 6-12 with Gay in the lineup and below .500 with him the previous year, it's not like they were removing a key piece from a strong team; they were removing an expensive piece from a weak team.

    I know many of you do not like DeRozan's game, but it's not the same situation. You are removing a key piece from a strong team (what were we like 42-22 post-Gay?) and replacing him with an unproven player. Yes the player could maybe have the potential to be better, but I really don't see how anyone can say that in the immediate future that is not exactly a "winning" move. DeRozan is better than any of these guys in the draft are going to be next season (hell DeRozan is better than LeBron was in his rookie season). So you're asking Lowry to take a step back next year. That might be a deal-breaker if he gets an offer from a team that is looking to win NOW.

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    You can marshal all the arguments, that you make up in your own mind, but none of them prove that what you have said is true.

    Trading Bargs and Gay meant that the Raptors were in tank mode, except they weren't. Trading DD for the #7 pick, to you, means that the Raps are in the rebuild, except it might not. Trading DD for a rookie, and Nash or whoever will certainly remove DeMar's scoring punch, but guess what. Suddenly his 16 shots a game get redistributed. Suddenly the opposing teams doesn't have just one guy to key in on. Suddenly the defense might get better. And maybe MU has other moves that bring back another player of value.

    Not saying any of those things are true, but stating over and over again that trading DeMar means Lowry walks is an opinion. Just like the opinions folks has, across the league, that Barg's and Gay's contracts couldn't be moved.

    Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion unless you think people are stupid or wrong for not agreeing with you....At least recognize when you are drinking your own Kool Aid.
    I don't think anyone's stupid for disagreeing, I'm just defending my argument. And telling me to stop drinking my own Kool Aid is basically saying that my whole premise is BS, so you're doing exactly what you just lambasted me for doing.

  22. #58
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Personally I don't like the Lakers #7 pick. I feel like the players in that 6-13 range are all reaches for a high ceiling, but no actual production. I want to move into the top 2 or the bottom 15. Top 2 for obvious reasons, but in the bottom 15 we have players like Ennis/Stauskas/Hood/Payton/LaVine/GRIII/Napier all there who can be important pieces on winning teams

    I think trading a DD for less valued picks in the 15-19 range AND established players is a better move as you are getting 2-3 options to fill in the gap left by DD rather than putting all your eggs in one basket. mcHappy I think is on the right track with the Chicago trade, which allows us to keep DD as well as make a move into the draft.

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    At the end of the day we all know that the Draft is very hard to guess. Some high picks turn out awful, some late picks turn out great. Even today with all the scouting it's still so unpredictable (Isiah Thomas pick 60 recently).

    I personally feel at the Raptors current position they don't need to trade DD in order to try and make a home run and get a superstar at the number 7 position. The risk is just too great. I feel we're not a team who needs to start all over and wait for whoever this guy is to get good in 3-4 years, we're a team that needs to keep building on what we have.

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    I'm open to trading Derozan for the right deal (well, no shit, right?) but I don't know that I would do it just for the purpose of getting the 7th pick.

    However, on draft night after the Cavs fuck up and someone mortgages the future for Kevin Love, then maybe the landscape will have shifted to the point where Ujiri sees something worthwhile.

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