PG: Isiah Thomas 84/85: 21.2 PPG 4.5 RPG 13.9 APG 2.3 SPG 1st team All-NBA
SG: Sidney Moncrief 82/83: 22.5 PPG 5.8 RPG 3.9 APG 1.5 SPG 1st team All-NBA Defensive Player of the Year
SF: Dominique Wilkins 85/86: 30.3 PPG 7.8 RPG 2.6 APG 1.8 SPG 1st team All-NBA NBA Scoring Champion
PF: Tim Duncan 02/03: 23.3 PPG 12.9 RPG 3.9 APG 2.9 BPG 1st team All-NBA 1st team All-Defence
C: Dave Cowens 74/75: 20.5 PPG 16.2 RPG 4.1 APG NBA MVP 2nd team All-Defence
Would be very stupid to trade DeRozan to the Lakers for this pick. The top 3 guys along with Exum and Vonleh (not that I would trade DeRozan for those two, but for argument's sake) will be gone by their pick. Makes zero sense to move DeRozan for a Randle or Smart tbqh.
It's not as simple as shipping DeRozan as soon as we see something that might be better. The fact that you think that shows a lack of depth in your trade and draft evaluation, which frankly is not surprising seeing as you wanted to trade DeRozan for Waiters.
Not only would the Raptors be getting the #7 pick (in this scenario), but they'd still have the #20 and #37 picks. Who says they'd be done wheeling and dealing either? It could be the means to the end for something bigger. Bottom line is we have no idea. Nobody has ever said that the #7 pick alone must be better than DeRozan, since there are many other issues impacted when considering the long-term, including the generation of an additional $9.5M for the 2015 offseason (when Nash's contract comes off the books, at least a year earlier than DeRozan's contract).
Whether you like the trade idea or not, you really can't truly judge the impact for at least a couple seasons. Personally, since I'm not a huge DeRozan fan and don't think this team as constructed has any hope in hell of even reaching the conference finals, I'd prefer to take a longer-term view of the team and think such a deal would make the team better 2-3 years from now.
2015 offseason is fine, that's not what Lowry is going to be looking at in free agency this year. I'm not in his head, but this is a guy that just missed a game-winner in game 7 of a playoff series. You think he doesn't want to be back there next year? Exchanging an all-star for an unproven player is not going to show Lowry that the team will be any better next season.Not only would the Raptors be getting the #7 pick (in this scenario), but they'd still have the #20 and #37 picks. Who says they'd be done wheeling and dealing either? It could be the means to the end for something bigger. Bottom line is we have no idea. Nobody has ever said that the #7 pick alone must be better than DeRozan, since there are many other issues impacted when considering the long-term, including the generation of an additional $9.5M for the 2015 offseason (when Nash's contract comes off the books, at least a year earlier than DeRozan's contract).
I'm not judging the trade for the next few seasons. I didn't even say #7 for DeRozan is necessarily a bad trade long-term (although it likely is unless one of the top 3-4 prospects drops to that spot imo). What I'm saying is if you move DeRozan for a draft pick you are committing to a rebuild, because you are going to lose Lowry as well. Idk how you can argue otherwise.Whether you like the trade idea or not, you really can't truly judge the impact for at least a couple seasons. Personally, since I'm not a huge DeRozan fan and don't think this team as constructed has any hope in hell of even reaching the conference finals, I'd prefer to take a longer-term view of the team and think such a deal would make the team better 2-3 years from now.
Trading Bargs and Gay meant that the Raptors were in tank mode, except they weren't. Trading DD for the #7 pick, to you, means that the Raps are in the rebuild, except it might not. Trading DD for a rookie, and Nash or whoever will certainly remove DeMar's scoring punch, but guess what. Suddenly his 16 shots a game get redistributed. Suddenly the opposing teams doesn't have just one guy to key in on. Suddenly the defense might get better. And maybe MU has other moves that bring back another player of value.
Not saying any of those things are true, but stating over and over again that trading DeMar means Lowry walks is an opinion. Just like the opinions folks has, across the league, that Barg's and Gay's contracts couldn't be moved.
Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion unless you think people are stupid or wrong for not agreeing with you....At least recognize when you are drinking your own Kool Aid.
Lowry isn't some hall of famer chasing a ring. And he's generally been underpaid so far. He's made 29 mil over his whole career. He has a chance to almost triple his career earnings over the next 4 years. This is his big summer. To hear that Lowry would say "no" to Toronto simply because DeRozan gets traded for a rookie sounds wildly unrealistic to me.
If you said that Kobe will take less money to play on a better team, I might believe it (just kidding). That's Kobe, Mr.Wants To Win, who's chasing Jordan and who's made near a billion dollars in salary and endorsements.
Ok if I could get some clarification here. What's the goal of moving DeRozan for the #7 pick?
Puffer's post was one of the best I've read here in quite some time.
DD traded does not mean or guarantee a rebuild nor does it mean Lowry walks.
"You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"Bruno Caboclo
Personally I don't know if I would move DeRozan for the no.7 pick. I don't know these prospects well enough. I doubt that most people do either, so it all seems a bit moot. But if Ujiri feels excited enough about some prospect to do this trade, I'll become excited too. It's entirely plausible that someone much better long term than DeRozan could be available at no.7.
A few of you are trying to liken trading DeRozan to trading Rudy, saying that Lowry won't let that affect his decision because he'll put business/profession first before friendship.
That's fine, and I agree that Lowry will put business/profession first. The difference is it's not the same situation at all. First of all Rudy was not playing as well as DeRozan played last season: sub 50% TS, more turnovers than assists, etc. Secondly, the Raptors were also 6-12 with Gay in the lineup and below .500 with him the previous year, it's not like they were removing a key piece from a strong team; they were removing an expensive piece from a weak team.
I know many of you do not like DeRozan's game, but it's not the same situation. You are removing a key piece from a strong team (what were we like 42-22 post-Gay?) and replacing him with an unproven player. Yes the player could maybe have the potential to be better, but I really don't see how anyone can say that in the immediate future that is not exactly a "winning" move. DeRozan is better than any of these guys in the draft are going to be next season (hell DeRozan is better than LeBron was in his rookie season). So you're asking Lowry to take a step back next year. That might be a deal-breaker if he gets an offer from a team that is looking to win NOW.
Personally I don't like the Lakers #7 pick. I feel like the players in that 6-13 range are all reaches for a high ceiling, but no actual production. I want to move into the top 2 or the bottom 15. Top 2 for obvious reasons, but in the bottom 15 we have players like Ennis/Stauskas/Hood/Payton/LaVine/GRIII/Napier all there who can be important pieces on winning teams
I think trading a DD for less valued picks in the 15-19 range AND established players is a better move as you are getting 2-3 options to fill in the gap left by DD rather than putting all your eggs in one basket. mcHappy I think is on the right track with the Chicago trade, which allows us to keep DD as well as make a move into the draft.
At the end of the day we all know that the Draft is very hard to guess. Some high picks turn out awful, some late picks turn out great. Even today with all the scouting it's still so unpredictable (Isiah Thomas pick 60 recently).
I personally feel at the Raptors current position they don't need to trade DD in order to try and make a home run and get a superstar at the number 7 position. The risk is just too great. I feel we're not a team who needs to start all over and wait for whoever this guy is to get good in 3-4 years, we're a team that needs to keep building on what we have.
I'm open to trading Derozan for the right deal (well, no shit, right?) but I don't know that I would do it just for the purpose of getting the 7th pick.
However, on draft night after the Cavs fuck up and someone mortgages the future for Kevin Love, then maybe the landscape will have shifted to the point where Ujiri sees something worthwhile.
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