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Thread: Expiring Contract Worth This Summer

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Expiring Contract Worth This Summer

    Below is a list of potential expiring contracts for the summer of 2011.

    Reggie Evans: $5,080,000
    Marcus Banks: $4,752,000
    Marco Belinelli: $2,380,270
    Sonny Weems: $854,389
    Total: S13,066,659
    Source: HoopsHype.com

    The question here is what is the worth of these contracts this summer? Are they enough for Toronto to land a borderline star from a team selling? Would they be best used help market a Hedo or Jose trade? How do you feel they could be best used?

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    For what its worth seeing how Weems is dirt cheap and we have the option of picking up his final year, I don't think he's going anywhere. He's a bargin at $854,389.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Buschfire's Avatar
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    I say we definitley KEEP Sonny he is going to be a good player in this league. The rest we can juggle around for trades and what not...

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote Buschfire wrote: View Post
    I say we definitley KEEP Sonny he is going to be a good player in this league. The rest we can juggle around for trades and what not...
    Welcome to the RR forums Buschfire.

  5. #5
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buschfire wrote: View Post
    I say we definitley KEEP Sonny he is going to be a good player in this league. The rest we can juggle around for trades and what not...
    Welcome. I agree, Sonny is going to be a good bench player in this league and when you consider that and his contract I feel he probably will get traded. He's a very good asset to be used to tip the scale in trade negotiations. His contract is so small that he can be thrown into almost any deal easily.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Buschfire's Avatar
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    Thank You for the warm welcome fellow posters. I look forward to many frustrating rants! *Apollo, I hope he doesn't get traded, and that Toronto gives him a chance to develop his skills rather then get tossed around the league and eventually forgotten...

    If he does get traded, I just hope its a good enough package to bring a player in that can make a difference to the team for years to come. and I hope whereever Sonny goes he gets the playing time that he has earned here in T dot.

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    He can be a good asset to develop, too. I like his size and quickness, and if he develops a consisten 3-point shoot,
    we can have a solid wing for years to come.

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    I think keeping Sonny is very important to the developement of Demar and vice versa. They have the atheletic ability to push each other and if they could both develope some consistency it would be a thing of beauty in Toronto.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Would they be best used help market a Hedo or Jose trade?
    Expiring contracts only have value to teams who are looking for improved cap flexibility.

    Taking back a contract like Hedo or Jose is contradictory to that goal.

    The only use they have in a deal with them is as makeweights. As irrelevant add-ons to make the numbers work.

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    I think Corey Maggette is a good example of a player who could be available for those expiring contracts.

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote Hypnotiq wrote: View Post
    I think keeping Sonny is very important to the developement of Demar and vice versa. They have the atheletic ability to push each other and if they could both develope some consistency it would be a thing of beauty in Toronto.
    And a fine welcome to you too Hypnotiq.

    I hear what your saying, but at the end of the day we need some instant presence in the back court along side either Jose or Jack. Both Weems and DeMar have had great individual performances this season, but its not consistent. We need consistency the most with this franchise or will just continue being mediocre.

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    Quote dn66 wrote: View Post
    He can be a good asset to develop, too. I like his size and quickness, and if he develops a consisten 3-point shoot,
    we can have a solid wing for years to come.
    For a minute I thought you were talking about DeRozan.

    As for the above post I honestly believe both of them can be consistent performers night in, night out, with the caveat that they are given time to develop. It just depends on how patient the Raptors will be with them. Or more specifically how patient Bosh will be.

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    Thanks for the Welcome Doc.

    Couldnt these two develope over the summer to become consistent performers?
    The Instant presence we need wont be beneficial for this season, so why not see how much these guys can develpoe over the summer and evaluate next year.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Buschfire's Avatar
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    I don't think it would be a good idea to get that "instant fix" it may solve some issues in the short term, but in the long run these 'fixes' whatever they maybe never seem to work out...

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Dave wrote: View Post
    Expiring contracts only have value to teams who are looking for improved cap flexibility.

    Taking back a contract like Hedo or Jose is contradictory to that goal.

    The only use they have in a deal with them is as makeweights. As irrelevant add-ons to make the numbers work.
    I think that's a little short sighted. An expiring deal could be used in a trade to lessen the burden of taking on Hedo. The other team flips the Raptors the best player in the deal, plus an undesired contract in exchange for Hedo and an expiring deal. Makes sense to me, especially for a team looking to make a change and avoid paying luxury tax.

    Quote Buschfire wrote: View Post
    I don't think it would be a good idea to get that "instant fix" it may solve some issues in the short term, but in the long run these 'fixes' whatever they maybe never seem to work out...
    The player salary amount between the salary cap and the luxury tax threshold is a luxury in itself. I think the Raptors would be making a mistake by letting those contracts expire without turning them into something.
    Last edited by Apollo; Mon Mar 22nd, 2010 at 02:22 PM.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Quote Dave wrote: View Post
    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Would they be best used help market a Hedo or Jose trade?
    Expiring contracts only have value to teams who are looking for improved cap flexibility.

    Taking back a contract like Hedo or Jose is contradictory to that goal.

    The only use they have in a deal with them is as makeweights. As irrelevant add-ons to make the numbers work.
    I think that's a little short sighted. An expiring deal could be used in a trade to lessen the burden of taking on Hedo. The other team flips the Raptors the best player in the deal, plus an undesired contract in exchange for Hedo and an expiring deal. Makes sense to me, especially for a team looking to make a change and avoid paying luxury tax.
    Two reactions:

    (1) You are right, my words were badly chosen and too extreme.

    Especially that last line highlighted in red. Scratch that line completely.

    Conclusion should be along these lines -- Expiring contracts in combination with bad contracts have limited use and add limited value to a trade proposal + teams are hugely unlikely to find a positive end result by walking down that road.

    (2) I can't see a team giving up a superior player who doesn't have a worse contract than Turkoglu + that contract would need to be far worse than Turkoglu's for the expiring contract to hold substantial value.

    So essentially you're talking about a $15-to-$25 million per annum contract that lasts as long as Hedo Turkoglu's deal + a player who is performing so badly that the team sees Turkoglu's $10 million per annum for four more years contract as an improvement?

    Is there any other type of trade that I'm overlooking?

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    A team that is willing to acquire Calderon or Turkoglu is a team that values them highly and sees either player as the main attraction to any proposal. Not only will they be the primary benefit but the secondary benefit (expiring contract) will be relatively minor in their eyes.

    The reason the expirings will have low value in the deal is because the cost of paying Calderon or Turkoglu is very high while the benefits of improved cap flexibility will still be quite small relative to the talent downgrade from the trade.

    A Turk + Evans for a $15 million over four years contract doesn't create much added cap flexibility. The difference in talent between Turkoglu and the acquired player won't be much so long as that is true. For there to be a large talent upgrade the Raptors would have to give far more cap flexibility in the deal.

    So we're really talking about $20-25 million worth of contracts (could be two or more players). I think that is the only way the expiring deals would have large value in the trade.
    Last edited by Dave; Mon Mar 22nd, 2010 at 03:03 PM.

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    Dave, I think you are completely right as a general point of view.

    The key is to find a scenario in which a talented player has burnt his bridge with his current team and now the team is selling him for 60 cents on the dollar. A team that has talented players and is looking for a specific type of guy like a Hedo or Jose might be willing to part with the more talented player making more money who has lost his way in order to add a specific piece of the puzzle.

    Obviously I'm talking about Gilbert here, but I don't think Hedo makes a ton of sense of Washington, maybe Jose though.

    GS has a lot of cooks and not enough servers. I could see them packaging Maggette with young talent like Brandon Wright for a Jose/Turk poo platter.

  19. #19
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Dave wrote: View Post
    (2) I can't see a team giving up a superior player who doesn't have a worse contract than Turkoglu + that contract would need to be far worse than Turkoglu's for the expiring contract to hold substantial value.

    So essentially you're talking about a $15-to-$25 million per annum contract that lasts as long as Hedo Turkoglu's deal + a player who is performing so badly that the team sees Turkoglu's $10 million per annum for four more years contract as an improvement?
    Hedo Turkoglu has shown very clearly that in the right system he is highly effective. You don't think a team like Clippers would consider moving Baron Davis for Hedo plus expirings and/or others if they win the lotto and have a chance to draft John Wall? It wasn't too long ago that they were dieing to get rid of him but couldn't find a suitor.

    Then as someone else mentioned, there's Gilbert Arenas.

    Both those guys land in that salary range you mentioned, which I see nothing wrong with under the right circumstances.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    You don't think a team like Clippers would consider moving Baron Davis for Hedo plus expirings and/or others if they win the lotto and have a chance to draft John Wall?
    Would that not be a trade for talent? Talent for talent, Hedo for Baron.

    I don't understand how the expiring contracts improve the odds of the Clippers wanting to make that trade. I don't think it changes their decision.

    Hedo for Baron? No deal. We don't think that's enough value for Baron Davis.
    Hedo + expirings for Baron? Oh, yes, that is a lot more valuable and we're interested in that.

    I don't see the end result changing because of the inclusion of the expiring contracts. Therefore, I don't see them as a significant piece of this specific trade idea. Just a makeweight piece. Items which do not change the principle idea of the deal -- talent for talent, Hedo for Baron.

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