Dwyane Wade has to be seriously de-valued at this stage of his career and in the situation he's in. The guy only plays about 2/3rd of the season on a maintenance schedule that's fully optimized to to maintain his 'freshness' for the playoffs.
And when Wade does actually play he's the 2nd and occasionally 3rd option (on nights when Bosh has it going). Essentially a perfect scenario where the deck is totally stacked in his favor to look good.
My top 10 (no Kobe, he would be #1)
Before I get flamed, let me explain.
1 - If the player also played relevant levels of defense, they were automatically put ahead of players that didn't.
For example, Wes Matthews is no where near Harden's offensive prowess, but his ability to play defense still makes him more of a plus player than Harden, hence a higher ranking.
Manu and Wade are not prototypical shut down defenders, however they were both plus defenders on amazing defensive teams, plus their body of work just puts them on top of all the young guys on that list ftm.
2 - I also valued the players ability to be a guard (ie ball handler and playmaker) more than a scorer. This is why I have Stephenson and Beal (better playmakers/ball handlers) above Thompson and Matthews (scorers). This is also why I put Waiters above DD, even though they are equally mediocre defensively. I think players who can penetrate and get into the paint at will are extremely valuable (see Tony Parker's career)
EDIT: I forgot Dragic, who has played SG and been a force all year. I think I would put him in at 5
Last edited by OldSkoolCool; Sat May 24th, 2014 at 02:54 PM.
Dragic is essentially a PG as well, the Suns just interchanged between him and Bledsoe who was bringing the ball up.
Did you know DD (3.0) has a higher DWS than Tony Allen (2.1) and Ross (2.2)? And is nearly at the same level as Batum (3.1) and Igoudala (3.1)?
Did you know that defensive metrics are completely useless?
Wish people would stop using defensive metrics to defend DD and rely on their basketball intelligence to come to an accurate conclusion. Advanced metrics have their limits, please don't lose sight of that.
- Waiters can get to the rim WAAAAAAAAAAY easier than DeMar because he can do a thing called dribbling and his ability to pass to the bigs in the paint far surpasses DeMar's ability. These are things that I highly value from guards (as well as shooting 3s), which is why I put Waiters ahead of DD. There are things that DD does better than Waiters, but just not areas that I think are as valuable to a team's success.
- Waiters also is not a "lazy" player, he runs hard when he is on the court....DD often floats but you never grill him for being "lazy". The attitude thing is good and bad, not unlike Lowry. He is competitive and demands the very best from his teammates and himself, which leads to conflict. Dispute born out of competitiveness is good, when it is born out of ignorance and self-righteousness it is bad.
But in terms of how each player fits within their team and affects their teams performance I would have to argue that Wesley is a better winner than Harden. For example if I am the Blazers, I think Wes is a better fit beside Lillard than Harden would be, therefor to the Blazers, Matthews > Harden.
My proof: Blazers/Rockets series. Who won that?
"That was nasty, right? I cocked that joint back and banged on him."
~ James Johnson
By useless do you mean "Don't reflect your opinion"?OldSkoolCool wrote:
And your biased opinions have their limits.OldSkoolCool wrote:
Perhaps Demar just IS a better defender than you give him credit for. Perhaps.
No, he's not a world stopper; but he's also not the useless piece of shit you make him out to be.
While you're criticizing my basketball intelligence, yours is seriously being called into question by your conclusion that Dion Waiters is better than Derozan.
"That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson
Wade and Manu are all-time greats obviously.
Lance has that all-around game with rebounding, assists and defense.
Bradley Beal can defend at a high level and shoot the 3 (although he's less efficient than DeRozan)
Klay Thompson is a better defender and shoots the basketball better.
Wes Matthews is an elite defender and shooter, also does a good job at other things as well. Great finisher too
Harden is an offensive superstar.
But Waiters man? Come on. Like there is just no argument for Waiters being better than DeRozan. This is where you just totally lose me man it doesn't make sense. He's less efficient, isn't as good of a playmaker (yes he has nicer handles but doesn't really do a lot of positive things with them except turn it over and freeze out teammates), he's a locker room problem, he's a minus defender, etc. Like dude come the fuck on for real.
I do wonder why so many love Lance though, when he over dribbles and freezes out his teammates more than DeMar could ever hope to.
This guy has Iverson's mentality with the actual ability of a much, much lesser player. That is a problem imo.
Waiters is an opinion. I think he will be the better SG of the two by next season. He is extremely talented and carried a pretty miserable Cleveland team whenever Kyrie was down for the count. Waiters is a better shooter (who suffers from bad shots, like DD), passer, ball handler and driver than DD. I suggest watching some game footage of his ability to pass and compare it to DD's and form an opinion.
As for Dion's "Poisonous Locker-room".
Also another player that should be in conversations on that list is Kyle Korver. Dude put together a fantastic season. Though I don't know how much time he played as a SF
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