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Thread: Bill Simmons Blasphemy: DeRozan for Henderson/#9

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter JordanMariam14's Avatar
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    This is a perfect example of if enough people say the same thing then it must be true.

    I honestly don't know if it is true or not but the only person who knows this for sure is Kyle Lowry.

    If his best friend is traded and the team becomes much much better, I would think losing DD is not going to be the end of the world for Lowry and he might even have faith in Masai based on what happened this year.
    Yeah of course, but in this situation I'd say the team is getting worse

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  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
    Yeah of course, but in this situation I'd say the team is getting worse

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    Debatable.

    I saw enough in the playoffs of the team making significant runs when DD comes out of the game to think twice on that. But I also recognize many of my opinions on DD have been dead wrong in the past and that when he played within the flow of the team on offense he was very, very valuable.

    Personally, I call it 50/50 - and that doesn't factor in to any assets returned for him.
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  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    MKG and the #9 would be nice. It would put us in a different place than we are now though. Back in development mode, but I think that's enough value.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter JordanMariam14's Avatar
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    Debatable.

    I saw enough in the playoffs of the team making significant runs when DD comes out of the game to think twice on that. But I also recognize many of my opinions on DD have been dead wrong in the past and that when he played within the flow of the team on offense he was very, very valuable.

    Personally, I call it 50/50 - and that doesn't factor in to any assets returned for him.
    Touche,
    But a lot of times in the playoffs he carried us like in Brooklyn in the first spot and in the 4th quarter of game two

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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    If the return for DeRozan is 'guaranteed' to be better for the Raptors now or in a short period of time... then why on earth would the other team do it?
    imanshumpert lost the part of his statement where he said he'd be okay with a 3-5th pick. So that's where the "almost guaranteed" comes in, I think.

    That actually is pretty much my limit too. I know it's a huge reach but the lowest I'd go, honestly, is 4th, because I'd want that "almost guarantee" of Wiggins/Embiid/Parker and I guess Exum; and that would take Derozan plus picks.

    It's a damn shame the Lakers and Celtics didn't get higher, because aside from the Cavs they're the main players I see in moving picks to acquire talent to play with Kobe/Rondo.

  6. #46
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    I wont do that , maybe

    Derozan, Novak + 59th pick for G.Handerson, Cody Zeller, MKG + 9th pick + 2014/15 pick top 10 protected

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    Quote Abbas wrote: View Post
    I wont do that , maybe

    Derozan, Novak + 59th pick for G.Handerson, Cody Zeller, MKG + 9th pick + 2014/15 pick top 10 protected
    I'm not sure how adding poor/mediocre prospects to the deal makes it a better trade...

    Zeller and MKG have shown nothing at the NBA level, and that 2014/15 pick would probably be around 20th. You're giving the Bobcats an actual scoring weapon on the wings, and they'd still have cap room to go get a guy like Hayward to shore up the small forward spot.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Starter Demographic Shift's Avatar
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    I am not in the camp of selling our 20th pick this year aggregated with either of DD or Tross for a pick in the 8 through 10 range in this years draft. We have endured years of crap from this team and organization and finally this year either by a combination of a plan coming together and some SHL or just plain SHL we made a run this season and looked good doing it. One would not be dismissed outright if you put forward that with some luck at the draft board and FA signing this is a potential 50+ win next season.
    The East is not going to dramatically improve next year as a whole.
    At the top you might see Indy fall as quickly as they rose. Miami will have its own share of drama to deal with on who opts in or out AND Dwayne Wade has added another year onto that 40 year old body. LeBron is the best of his generation but he will need help.
    The Raps, Washington Bulls and Atlanta will be better next year and be looking to move up to that "challenger tier".
    Charlotte will also improve by way of FA and a draft pick but they would appear to have less quality players than the challenger tier.
    Brooklyn is a year older ,no draft picks and really doesn't have much to trade with but does have Lopez coming back.
    The Knicks are a gong show led by an idiot called James Dolan. No draft picks, no cap space and a Melodrama that likely sees him opt out.
    Philly and Milwaukee will continue to be crappy even with those draft picks. Conventional wisdom says they get one of Embiid, Parker or Wiggins to add thier core of dreck. OKC (then Seattle) drafted Durant in 2007 with a similar core of dreck players and they went 20-62. After drafting Westrooke the following year they improved to 23 and 59. History does tend to repeat itself given the same set of variables.
    Cleveland is Cleveland. For all we know they draft that hottie Mallory Edens. Cleveland is on its own planet and shows little sign of rentry without damage.
    All this to say
    1) the prospects of being a challenger in the East next year is very real for the Raps. After this years fun of winning and seeing the post season why take a risk in the draft. There are no Durants in this draft and he got 20 wins in year one and 23 in year 2. There are no Lebrons in this draft either. There is a ton of hype though.
    2) Trading two mature players for a draft pick that is out of the top 3 would send a signal that we are not about winning now but about re-building/loading yet again in another selling of hope and a 5 year plan. 10 Maple Leaf 5 year plans later have yielded jacksh*t. Play to win now thats why we keep score.
    3.The draft seems to have 6 to 8 very good prospects and about 25 pretty good prospects. Ujuri built his rep on finding players that can help and contribute to success in year one to good core when they don't have to carry the mail themselves. He is adept at finding those types of players. He has a reasonable range of players in the 20 and 37 slots that should be able to help the existing core. This is a less risky proposition than hoping to goodness after you trade your allstar and your 2nd best prospect for just a single prospect in the draft in the 8 to 10 range will turn the team around in a shorter period of time.
    Last edited by Demographic Shift; Mon Jun 2nd, 2014 at 08:40 PM.

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  10. #49
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    Bill Simmons & Zach Lowe Discuss Upcoming Toronto Raptors Off-season




    I'm not opposed to trading DeMar but I would expect a better return than Henderson and #9.

    I guess the B.S. Report has multiple meanings?


    Then there is another interpretation which sounds a little more accurate:
    What's the point of such a trade? I have no idea how that makes the Raptors better unless it's a draft day trade and somebody high on their board falls to #9.

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  11. #50
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What's the point of such a trade? I have no idea how that makes the Raptors better unless it's a draft day trade and somebody high on their board falls to #9.

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    I don't know - lol

    Ask bill Simmons.
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  12. #51
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    It's a case of them trying to find something to talk about.

    If I'm trading DD today I expect:

    1. A star of compatible impact or
    2. A good vet, a prospect and a mid 1st round pick.




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  14. #52
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    Quote Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
    I am not in the camp of selling our 20th pick this year aggregated with either of DD or Tross for a pick in the 8 through 10 range in this years draft. We have endured years of crap from this team and organization and finally this year either by a combination of a plan coming together and some SHL or just plain SHL we made a run this season and looked good doing it. One would not be dismissed outright if you put forward that with some luck at the draft board and FA signing this is a potential 50+ win next season.

    The East is not going to dramatically improve next year as a whole.

    At the top you might see Indy fall as quickly as they rose. Miami will have its own share of drama to deal with on who opts in or out AND Dwayne Wade has added another year onto that 40 year old body. LeBron is the best of his generation but he will need help.
    The Raps, Washington Bulls and Atlanta will be better next year and be looking to move up to that "challenger tier".
    Charlotte will also improve by way of FA and a draft pick but they would appear to have less quality players than the challenger tier.
    Brooklyn is a year older ,no draft picks and really doesn't have much to trade with but does have Lopez coming back.
    The Knicks are a gong show led by an idiot called James Dolan. No draft picks, no cap space and a Melodrama that likely sees him opt out.

    Philly and Milwaukee will continue to be crappy even with those draft picks. Conventional wisdom says they get one of Embiid, Parker or Wiggins to add thier core of dreck. OKC (then Seattle) drafted Durant in 2007 with a similar core of dreck players and they went 20-62. After drafting Westrooke the following year they improved to 23 and 59. History does tend to repeat itself given the same set of variables.

    Cleveland is Cleveland. For all we know they draft that hottie Mallory Edens. Cleveland is on its own planet and shows little sign of rentry without damage.

    All this to say:

    1) the prospects of being a challenger in the East next year is very real for the Raps. After this years fun of winning and seeing the post season why take a risk in the draft. There are no Durants in this draft and he got 20 wins in year one and 23 in year 2. There are no Lebrons in this draft either. There is a ton of hype though.

    2) Trading two mature players for a draft pick that is out of the top 3 would send a signal that we are not about winning now but about re-building/loading yet again in another selling of hope and a 5 year plan. 10 Maple Leaf 5 year plans later have yielded jacksh*t. Play to win now thats why we keep score.

    3.The draft seems to have 6 to 8 very good prospects and about 25 pretty good prospects. Ujuri built his rep on finding players that can contribute to good core. Finding 2 guys at 20 and 37 to help the existing core is a much less risky proposition than hoping to goodness after you trade your allstar and your 2nd best prospect for a single prospect would seem to be imprudent.
    Please hit enter next time lol, good post though man.

    And I like the idea of a little organic growth (hate to use a BC term, but it actually makes sense for this team because it's young). Ross and JV are hitting that 3rd year, which tends to be the year where guys' true talents emerge. Big leaps for those two could mean a big leap for the team. After all, most of us are banking on JV becoming an all-star type player and Ross being an elite 3+D guy, so why not see how that works out?

    I don't see the point in making any major moves unless a superstar or a top 3-4 pick is coming back the other way. Let's make our pick at #20 or move up a few spots if we can to get Ujiri's target, make a couple good picks with our second rounders, bring back Kyle and maybe find a diamond in the rough type signing in free agency.

  15. #53
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    DD for Henderson and #9 isn't as crazy as it sounds

    DD for MKG and #9 is even better
    Man, I really appreciate and value Derozan's loyalty to Toronto's basketball organization (Since many players in the past have expressed their disinterest in Toronto), but if MKG + #9 pick is a possibility, I would personally pull that move on a heart beat :O
    What an interesting idea you have raised!!

  16. #54
    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    It's pretty simple. Unless the pick is in position to get a guy like Vonleh (I'm assuming 6 or 7), then I'm not interested in trading Derozan. Anything higher (8,9,10... etc) than 7 means we're selling low on him. And means we're still on the treadmill. Probably worse.

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    Super Moderator MangoKid's Avatar
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    Damn tapa talk.



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    Raptors Republic All-Star 007's Avatar
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    Why are we trading an all star who is still getting better for a role player and a pick that we hope turns into an all star?
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    If the return for DeRozan is 'guaranteed' to be better for the Raptors now or in a short period of time... then why on earth would the other team do it?
    I said "almost guaranteed", and there are a few scenarios, I'll talk about 2.

    #1: A team's superstar is demanding out, the team accepts a package including DeRozan in exchange for said superstar
    #2: A team is looking to get someone who can help them contend immediately and sends a superstar prospect/pick for DeRozan.

    These are really the only two types of trades i'm interested in doing involving DeMar.

  20. #58
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    Quote MangoKid wrote: View Post
    It's pretty simple. Unless the pick is in position to get a guy like Vonleh (I'm assuming 6 or 7), then I'm not interested in trading Derozan. Anything higher (8,9,10... etc) than 7 means we're selling low on him. And means we're still on the treadmill. Probably worse.

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    If the right player is available at 9, I would take it and Kidd-Gilchrist for DeMar any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    A Vonleh or Gordon could conceivably be available and could be excellent fits.

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    Trading DD which is a proven talent at this stage is a BIG MISTAKE !!! We signed Lowry to compete now and taking another rookie and an unproven talent is just a step back.

    DD has to stay here unless we are shipping Lowry and Johnson out and we are rebuilding.

  22. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    DD for Henderson and #9 isn't as crazy as it sounds

    DD for MKG and #9 is even better
    Its pretty fucking crazy. Almost as crazy as me

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