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Thread: Bill Simmons Blasphemy: DeRozan for Henderson/#9

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Starter YoungGunRaptor's Avatar
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    The problem I have with MKG is the fact that he is no better than Landry Fields on offence. He will present the same problems that Salmons and Fields did on offence. His defence is stellar, but as was seen in the 2014 first round vs the Heat, he could not provide enough offence from the 3 spot, something the (hornets) needed. If MKG could learn to drive and kick, or learn to hit the midrange jumper consistently, Charlotte's whole offensive dynamic would change, and they could have had a much better offence. Same thing would apply if he were to join the Raptors.

    That beings said, he could fit in nicely alongside Ross at the wing spot. Im sure the Raptors staff could help re-develop his shot and improve upon it. He is extremely athletic and also takes care of the need for a player who can guard larger small forwards.
    “You can sink and drown, or you can float, and we out here like Michael Phelps."


    Demar Derozan

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    But Ross isn't a great shooter, besides transition and threes, Demar can shoot from everywhere.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    But Ross isn't a great shooter, besides transition and threes, Demar can shoot from everywhere.
    Is this a joke? LMAO
    He's 2 years away from being 2 years away, but his wingspan is already here .

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Starter YoungGunRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    But Ross isn't a great shooter, besides transition and threes, Demar can shoot from everywhere.
    Definitely.

    Ross needs to work on his midrange game, as well as on his ability to finish in the paint under contact. If he bulked up, and Derozan works on his defence this offseason, we wouldn't have to trade either of them.

    Personally, I would bring in a PF, and move Amir to the bench. Amir is the man, but his health is so key to the Raptors success. He could play less minutes, yet have a significant impact. I would also upgrade our bench at the SF and C positions.
    “You can sink and drown, or you can float, and we out here like Michael Phelps."


    Demar Derozan

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    Quote MACK11 wrote: View Post
    Is this a joke? LMAO
    Demar is a worse three point shooter than Ross, but when does Ross shoot anywhere other than threes and around the basket?

    And it's not like he's creating most of his threes.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  6. #66
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    Demar is a worse three point shooter than Ross, but when does Ross shoot anywhere other than threes and around the basket?

    And it's not like he's creating most of his threes.
    Shooting the worst shot in basketball ( long midrange jumper) is nothing to brag about. Threes and layups all the way

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    Demar is a worse three point shooter than Ross, but when does Ross shoot anywhere other than threes and around the basket?

    And it's not like he's creating most of his threes.
    I think DeMar takes enough long two's for the both of them.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    Demar is a worse three point shooter than Ross, but when does Ross shoot anywhere other than threes and around the basket?

    And it's not like he's creating most of his threes.
    Demar is a shot maker similar to Monta Ellis he's not a good shooter
    Ross is the definition of a shooter
    Ross gets his shots from spot ups and screens

    Also if Ross and DD has a midrange shooting contest Ross would win
    DD takes a whole lotta long 2's, that does not mean he's good at them
    He's 2 years away from being 2 years away, but his wingspan is already here .

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    MKG and the #9 would be nice. It would put us in a different place than we are now though. Back in development mode, but I think that's enough value.
    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    It's a case of them trying to find something to talk about.

    If I'm trading DD today I expect:

    1. A star of compatible impact or
    2. A good vet, a prospect and a mid 1st round pick.
    Oh yeah, if you listen to the podcast he starts off by saying something like, "And we have to mention the Raptors because, if we don't I'll get thousands of emails about how I hate the Raptors"... he just loves trolling us.

    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post

    And I like the idea of a little organic growth (hate to use a BC term, but it actually makes sense for this team because it's young). Ross and JV are hitting that 3rd year, which tends to be the year where guys' true talents emerge. Big leaps for those two could mean a big leap for the team. After all, most of us are banking on JV becoming an all-star type player and Ross being an elite 3+D guy, so why not see how that works out?

    I don't see the point in making any major moves unless a superstar or a top 3-4 pick is coming back the other way. Let's make our pick at #20 or move up a few spots if we can to get Ujiri's target, make a couple good picks with our second rounders, bring back Kyle and maybe find a diamond in the rough type signing in free agency.
    I'm not against organic growth, but it is problematic because if every team has organic growth, even if you get better in real terms it doesn't necessarily mean your going to get better relative to the competition (depending on how much organic growth each team has had).

    Quote Triplethreat89 wrote: View Post
    Man, I really appreciate and value Derozan's loyalty to Toronto's basketball organization (Since many players in the past have expressed their disinterest in Toronto), but if MKG + #9 pick is a possibility, I would personally pull that move on a heart beat :O
    What an interesting idea you have raised!!
    I like the thinking of this trade, although I am concerned that we no longer have a wing player who can drive/manufacture foul shots, something Demar is quite good at also...is MKG the next James Johnson? But maybe the organic growth of MKG and Ross is enough to make up for it?
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    MKG and #9 I'd think about if MKG's ceiling was actually what it was supposed to be when he was drafted. Hasn't been a very good NBA player so far.

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    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    Shooting the worst shot in basketball ( long midrange jumper) is nothing to brag about. Threes and layups all the way
    Except when facing elite defenses, who are specifically catered to taking away the midrange shot. Look at Lamarcus Aldridge this year, or Dwayne Wade the last couple postseasons. There's real value in being comfortable with that shot and being able to consistently knock it down, which makes defenses have to adjust from their normal scheme.
    @Boymusic66

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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    Except when facing elite defenses, who are specifically catered to taking away the midrange shot. Look at Lamarcus Aldridge this year, or Dwayne Wade the last couple postseasons. There's real value in being comfortable with that shot and being able to consistently knock it down, which makes defenses have to adjust from their normal scheme.
    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    One thing I've noticed is that a lot of secondary guys on championship teams had very good in-between/mid-range games.

    - Wade and Bosh on the Heat
    - Jason Terry with the Mavs (while known more for 3PT shooting, actually shot most of his shots from between 10ft and the 3)
    - Pau Gasol with the Lakers
    - Kevin Garnett with the Celtics
    - Tony Parker with the Spurs (very similar to DeRozan in that 36% of his shots came from 16-23, ie. long twos, compared to 39%)
    - Rip Hamilton with the Pistons
    - Kobe with the 3-Peat Lakers

    I think one of the reasons why Bosh added the 3 is because when you have 2 of these mid-range guys it can cause spacing issues, but having one is actually very beneficial to a championship team.
    Posted this in another thread.

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Posted this in another thread.
    Just to add on a bit. What's interesting is that basically every single championship team has had a guy who is very good from mid-range as a second option. Not saying it's necessary, but what it does show is that it is possible and can actually be a healthy part of a championship formula. Even more interesting is that all of those guys I listed (except Terry and I suppose Bosh of course) couldn't shoot the 3 worth a damn.

    Kobe - 29.4% in 3 years during Lakers 3-Peat
    Rip - 26.5%
    Parker - 32.0% combined in 2003, 2005, 2007 title runs; only made about one 3 every other game.
    KG - 0%
    Gasol - 14.3% (1-7) during back-to-back titles
    Wade - 26.2% during back-to-back titles

    Another thing that's consistent between these guys is high free-throw draw rates. (DeRozan for reference was at 0.448)

    Kobe - 0.361
    Rip - 0.293
    Parker - 0.295
    Garnett - 0.339
    Gasol - 0.425
    Wade - 0.372

    Where DeRozan needs to step up is in terms of efficiency, although I think that would increase as a by-product of being a second option. But just for reference here are their TS% (DeMar 53.2%)

    Kobe - 54.7%
    Rip - 52.2%
    Parker - 54.7%
    Garnett - 58.8%
    Gasol - 60.5%
    Wade - 56.5%

    Additionally, some of these guys (except Garnett and Kobe) were just known as solid or ok defenders at the time. None of them were stoppers, and frequently had their fellow wing/backcourt mate assigned to guard the other team's best wing scorer (Tayshaun for Rip, LeBron/Battier for Wade, etc).
    Last edited by imanshumpert; Wed Jun 4th, 2014 at 08:18 AM.

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  17. #74
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    Demar had a true shooting percentage of only 52.6% for his career - slightly above Henderson, on a per 36 minute basis over their careers the DD has more points 18.1 to 15.9, while Henderson is better in almost every other category - Rebounds (4.5 vs 4.0), Assists (2.6 vs. 2.0), Steals (both 1.0), Blocks (0.5 to 0.3). And almost every starting SG in the league plays better defence than Demar. Not saying I would trade them straight up...but throw in the #9 pick and considering the salary difference ($3.5 million per year) and I am listening.

  18. #75
    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote black angus wrote: View Post
    Demar had a true shooting percentage of only 52.6% for his career - slightly above Henderson, on a per 36 minute basis over their careers the DD has more points 18.1 to 15.9, while Henderson is better in almost every other category - Rebounds (4.5 vs 4.0), Assists (2.6 vs. 2.0), Steals (both 1.0), Blocks (0.5 to 0.3). And almost every starting SG in the league plays better defence than Demar. Not saying I would trade them straight up...but throw in the #9 pick and considering the salary difference ($3.5 million per year) and I am listening.
    Personally, and this could be me with my Demar blinders (love his work ethic, an intangible that's hard to find and raises his value in my eyes), I wouldn't get out of bed for less than MKG, Henderson, #9 and either Zeller or CDR.

    Demar is so so sooo much a part of this locker room and along with Lowry, the reason we've performed so well this season. He is their leader and they truly look up to him. He, in turn, sets a great example with his incredible determination and desire to improve/win. Obviously there's a point where the team will get way better by trading him, but a lot of these trade scenarios are redundant at best when they're not negative overall.
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

  19. #76
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    At No9, we are still not getting Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Noah, Gordan, Exum, Smart, or Randle. So No!

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    Quote tenforthewin wrote: View Post
    At No9, we are still not getting Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Noah, Gordan, Exum, Smart, or Randle. So No!
    Nineforthewin?
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

  21. #78
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    Would we be good with Jabari Parker? Just asking if he's that great
    & is DD really THAT bad defensively?

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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    Quote JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
    Would we be good with Jabari Parker? Just asking if he's that great
    & is DD really THAT bad defensively?

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    Parker is going to be worse defensively. He's going to be too slow to guard his own position (SF) at the NBA level. And he doesn't have the size or length to guard the 4 either (just picturing him trying to guard a guy like Aldridge is hilarious).

  23. #80
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    The only trade I would agree with is DeRozan to Charlotte for Henderson, MKG, #9 and #24 in this years draft.

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