Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 86

Thread: Stars that could realistically be available to Toronto in the next few years

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,888
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote MACK11 wrote: View Post
    I dont really call that play lucky IMO

    It was Pop's fault he took out Duncan on that play and all Bosh did was use his height and grab a rebound and pass it out the the greatest 3pt shooter in NBA history

    Ray Allen making a corner 3 is far from luck
    Again, I'm not talking about that play, I'm talking about the one before it. That one was as lucky as it gets.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    I'm just using kev as a example, people are willing to just throw everything away for him and I feel that is not worth it.

    I think it is possible to beat the heat without a true superstar. All you need to do is control lebron, if that is possible which it is really hard to do. You lose. Let's say we have a solid 6-7 balanced attack of solid players that can score/defend at the same time. Now that is something that can beat the heat where any one of them go off for like 20 on any day or can prohibit his opposition player for doing.

    I'm just pointing out that you don't need a superstar player to be good but it would be nice. You can still play well even though you don't have that guy that can score at will.
    I gotta disagree here. Superstars should have consistent skills or abilities that are superior to those of an average NBA player, statistics-wise, certain intangibles like one-on-one ability, or even just a presence about them that influences their team or oppposing teams mentally/physically that can greatly increase the chances of winning a basketball game.

    I think championship teams need that. It's not really putting all the glory or responsibility on to a select few players on a 15 man NBA team, but the NBA is a superstar driven league because teamwork is not the be-all-end-all way to sustain success. Player match-ups are more important in basketball then say soccer or hockey, where teamwork is really the ONLY way to be winning all the matches.

    It's not pretty, but isolation plays work in basketball. It's a set play based off of taking advantage of a the match up. It gives the other players the time to focus on other areas of basketball like ball possession, positional rebounding, or spot up shooting which the iso player (superstar) integrates in to their playing style. I don't think the Heat right now can be beaten without the advantage of having a player of such quality, with the ability to draw double-teams and so on creating space and chances for his teammates to thrive against a team like the Heat.

    Of course there are parameters like the coaches offensive/defensive system as well, but let's probably another conversation for another time.

    And yes, I think Kevin Love is a superstar, no doubt.
    No, I don't not think he's THE superstar that would help this team win a championship due to factors including assets lost to acquire him, his fit on the current team, and so on.
    But yes, with a superstar LIKE him on the team the coaches can adjust their offensive schemes based on him being involved in likely 25% or more of the offensive touches in a normal game.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Kitchener "Sketchener"
    Posts
    1,503
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Stevo wrote: View Post
    It's not pretty, but isolation plays work in basketball. It's a set play based off of taking advantage of a the match up. It gives the other players the time to focus on other areas of basketball like ball possession, positional rebounding, or spot up shooting which the iso player (superstar) integrates in to their playing style. I don't think the Heat right now can be beaten without the advantage of having a player of such quality, with the ability to draw double-teams and so on creating space and chances for his teammates to thrive against a team like the Heat.
    Sounds like we should go after rudy gay again doesnt. He commands a double plays ALOT of iso and scores quite a bit plus can take over games.

    The term superstar is too vague that you can name sooo many players that by those standards are superstars. Joe johnson is a najor example how did he fare againstbthe heat.

    Hell even demar is good at doing those things. Couldnt he be consifered a superstar. I think you can win with a colection lf demar type guys rayher than one god like player surronded by role llayers. If you have 3/4 suprrstars that fit well together than the superstar method works. So far only the heat have that working lakers failed with d12 and the brooklyn mess didnt work.

    Sooo...your up buddy

    Sent from my GT-S7560M using Tapatalk
    In Swag we Trust

    -Nick Young

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,315
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    Sounds like we should go after rudy gay again doesnt. He commands a double plays ALOT of iso and scores quite a bit plus can take over games.

    The term superstar is too vague that you can name sooo many players that by those standards are superstars. Joe johnson is a najor example how did he fare againstbthe heat.

    Hell even demar is good at doing those things. Couldnt he be consifered a superstar. I think you can win with a colection lf demar type guys rayher than one god like player surronded by role llayers. If you have 3/4 suprrstars that fit well together than the superstar method works. So far only the heat have that working lakers failed with d12 and the brooklyn mess didnt work.

    Sooo...your up buddy

    Sent from my GT-S7560M using Tapatalk
    Well I agree with you man. If the only way to win a championship is to have a top 5 player on your team then why do most NBA fans watch at all? Most teams do not have a superstar, so whats the point of supporting a team that has no chance of winning a title? Whats the point of supporting a team that has little to no chance of even acquiring such a superstar type player, because let's face it, most teams in the league have no chance of even doing so, and the Raptors are one of them. Neither Love, Durant, or LBJ will play in TO. I do not believe there is a circumstance in which those types of players would play for the Raptors. Even if Love was traded for, he would leave in free agency. Whether it's because it's in Canada, or the Raps aren't a winning franchise close to contention, or the league would prefer to see it's superstars in large domestic markets, it really doesn't matter. We are one of the franchise's that just does not have access to 'superstars' like L.A. or NYK or Chicago.

    But despite 'the facts', I have to believe that a team without a superstar can succeed in this league, although it seems very likely not to happen. Otherwise, I may just as well stop watching, because I think the Raps have a better chance of being a successful team without a superstar than they have of actually acquiring one.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,315
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    So, how do you guys feel? Do you believe that a superstar is absolutely necessary to be a contender, or do you think it's possible to contend with a bunch of good to great players? Because if you think the former is necessary, than I can understand how cheering for this team could be frustrating, and how it will continue to be so in the future.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptorsss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    915
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Horford would be my ideal player for Toronto. I would even be ok giving up Amir for him.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
    -"ďI ainít no diva! I donít have no blond hair, red hair. Iím Reggie Evans.Ē

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Waterloo
    Posts
    594
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    So, how do you guys feel? Do you believe that a superstar is absolutely necessary to be a contender, or do you think it's possible to contend with a bunch of good to great players? Because if you think the former is necessary, than I can understand how cheering for this team could be frustrating, and how it will continue to be so in the future.
    We only get an '04 Pistons rarely. You need superstars.
    @Boymusic66

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I've already mentioned how I feel about this. But the Spurs this year could alter that mentality.....

    If the Spurs win, we'd have an example of a team without superstars in their prime, but superstars that maintain a superstar presence about them, with intangibles like experience, drive, leadership (from a superstar standpoint) factoring in.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Waterloo
    Posts
    594
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Stevo wrote: View Post
    I've already mentioned how I feel about this. But the Spurs this year could alter that mentality.....

    If the Spurs win, we'd have an example of a team without superstars in their prime, but superstars that maintain a superstar presence about them, with intangibles like experience, drive, leadership (from a superstar standpoint) factoring in.
    It's still superstars. And the only thing that makes up for the lack of in-the-prime superstars is a hall-of-fame trio that has been together for 12 years, combined on a starting lineup with a very intelligent Euroleague first-teamer and Spanish League MVP with decent numbers whose been with them for four years that was given two years to learn the system before starting and an ascending superstar with insane length for his position knows each other in and out, combined with extremely well scouted complementary role players who are specifically developed and put into situations which benefit them, guided by a top 3 coach of all time. Seems to be a hell of a lot harder than getting a couple superstars
    @Boymusic66

  10. Like ball4life, OldSkoolCool liked this post
  11. #50
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    MTL
    Posts
    1,534
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Well I agree with you man. If the only way to win a championship is to have a top 5 player on your team then why do most NBA fans watch at all? Most teams do not have a superstar, so whats the point of supporting a team that has no chance of winning a title? Whats the point of supporting a team that has little to no chance of even acquiring such a superstar type player, because let's face it, most teams in the league have no chance of even doing so, and the Raptors are one of them. Neither Love, Durant, or LBJ will play in TO. I do not believe there is a circumstance in which those types of players would play for the Raptors. Even if Love was traded for, he would leave in free agency. Whether it's because it's in Canada, or the Raps aren't a winning franchise close to contention, or the league would prefer to see it's superstars in large domestic markets, it really doesn't matter. We are one of the franchise's that just does not have access to 'superstars' like L.A. or NYK or Chicago.

    But despite 'the facts', I have to believe that a team without a superstar can succeed in this league, although it seems very likely not to happen. Otherwise, I may just as well stop watching, because I think the Raps have a better chance of being a successful team without a superstar than they have of actually acquiring one.
    Fuck all that.

    Winning changes everything. Winning and proper management.
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

    - Walter White

  12. Like mcHAPPY liked this post
  13. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Kitchener "Sketchener"
    Posts
    1,503
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Fuck all that.

    Winning changes everything. Winning and proper management.
    Honestly when you win your players begin to be deemed superstars. Take paul george he was playing in danny grangers shadow until he took miami to 7 games he sudenlly became a superstar. Lets say we beat brooklyn and took miami to 6 games. Derozan would be called a superstar and lowry would be called a top 5 point guard. Whenn you win your players get madddddd overated. Just look at hibbert just last yrar he was called a superstar and franchise centre. Who still thinks that

    Sent from my GT-S7560M using Tapatalk
    In Swag we Trust

    -Nick Young

  14. #52
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,310
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    Honestly when you win your players begin to be deemed superstars. Take paul george he was playing in danny grangers shadow until he took miami to 7 games he sudenlly became a superstar. Lets say we beat brooklyn and took miami to 6 games. Derozan would be called a superstar and lowry would be called a top 5 point guard. Whenn you win your players get madddddd overated. Just look at hibbert just last yrar he was called a superstar and franchise centre. Who still thinks that

    Sent from my GT-S7560M using Tapatalk
    Yeah but most championship teams have REAL superstars on them.

    Only exception really is 03-04 Pistons, and they had 4 all-star players including Ben Wallace, who was a superstar on the defensive end.

  15. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    MTL
    Posts
    1,534
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    Honestly when you win your players begin to be deemed superstars. Take paul george he was playing in danny grangers shadow until he took miami to 7 games he sudenlly became a superstar. Lets say we beat brooklyn and took miami to 6 games. Derozan would be called a superstar and lowry would be called a top 5 point guard. Whenn you win your players get madddddd overated. Just look at hibbert just last yrar he was called a superstar and franchise centre. Who still thinks that

    Sent from my GT-S7560M using Tapatalk
    Doesn't matter, as long as you get those W's.


    Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

    - Walter White

  16. #54
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    792
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Look at this list and think of the caliber of stars that these teams were built around: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_champions

    We're talking LeBron, Duncan, KG/Pierce/Allen, Kobe, Shaq, Jordan & Pippen, Hakeem, Thomas, Bird... These aren't just all-stars or really nice players, these are all time greats, top tier Hall of Famers, and most frequently there are 2 or 3 of them on each team.

    Recent exceptions to the megastar rule are the Mavs and Pistons, who both capitalized on a perfect-storm of variables and weak competition. Dirk has said on Grantland that the Mavs wouldn't have won a championship a couple years before or after the one they got - they capitalized on a power vacuum and had everything come together perfectly within their own roster that year, a confluence of variables you can't really plan for.

    If you're serious about winning a championship, you better aim to get a top 5 player in the league, period. You gotta shoot for KD, or a similar star, even if this is "just" Toronto.

  17. Like imanshumpert liked this post
  18. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,310
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Yup, basically the only way to win a title is with a top 5 player in the league on your team.

    The only other way is to have 3-4 all-star level players that fit together perfectly and can excel together on both sides of the ball (07-08 Celtics and 03-04 Pistons).

  19. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    MTL
    Posts
    1,534
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Yup, basically the only way to win a title is with a top 5 player in the league on your team.

    The only other way is to have 3-4 all-star level players that fit together perfectly and can excel together on both sides of the ball (07-08 Celtics and 03-04 Pistons).
    Dude when that Celtics team was formed those guys were all still considered superstars
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

    - Walter White

  20. #57
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,986
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think the odds of a superstar-less team winning the championship is higher than the odds of the Raptors landing a superstar in the next few years.

    I also think the odds of a superstar coming to Toronto increases by a lot if the Raptors make several conference finals.

    It's kind of crazy for a franchise that has 0 7-game series victories to be thinking championship or bust. Baby steps. Baby steps.

  21. #58
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,310
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Dude when that Celtics team was formed those guys were all still considered superstars
    READ

    I said top 5 player. Which one of those Celtics guys was a top 5 player that year?

  22. #59
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,188
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    READ

    I said top 5 player. Which one of those Celtics guys was a top 5 player that year?
    I would even say Pierce is kind of vastly overrated. That big three and title saved his legacy. He was fully on a mediocre career trajectory as a volume scorer on fringe playoff teams. He was a 5 time all-star and two time 3rd team all-NBA before that. If that team is never put together, there's no way anyone ever considers him a hall of famer.

  23. #60
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    MTL
    Posts
    1,534
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    READ

    I said top 5 player. Which one of those Celtics guys was a top 5 player that year?
    ALLLLL I'M SAYING: 2006-2007 season

    Ray Allen - 26.4ppg, 4.5rbg, 4.1ast 90% ft, 37.2% 3pt

    Paul Pierce - 25ppg, 5.9rbg, 4.1ast, 39%3pt

    Kevin Garnett - 22.4ppg, 12.8rbg, 4.1ast

    They were all at least top 3 at their positions

    I just think they were a little more "All-Star level" players than the 03-04 Pistons.

    So really theres no point to argue me cause it further proves the point of what you were saying lol The Pistons are really the only team without a top 5 talent that has won a championship in the however many years...

    Actually... was Nowitzki a top 5 player in the league when Dallas won? Hmmm, I don't think so.
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

    - Walter White

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •