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Thread: Why DeRozan is an ideal 2nd option for a championship team.

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    Default Why DeRozan is an ideal 2nd option for a championship team.

    I present you with facts:

    The second options on the majority of the past few championship teams have been guys that excel from the mid-range area as well as at getting to the free throw line. In fact the only championship team since 2000 that didn't have such a player as its second option was the 2006 Miami Heat (Wade was the 1st option). Here's the list:

    - Wade and Bosh on the 2012 and 2013 Heat
    - Jason Terry with the 2011 Mavs (while known more for 3PT shooting, actually shot most of his shots from between 10ft and the 3)
    - Pau Gasol with the 2009 and 2010 Lakers
    - Kevin Garnett with the 2008 Celtics
    - Tony Parker with the 2003, 2005 and 2007 Spurs (very similar to DeRozan in that 36% of his shots came from 16-23, ie. long twos, compared to 39%)
    - Rip Hamilton with the 2004 Pistons
    - Kobe with the 2000, 2001 and 2002 Lakers

    So that is 13 of the last 14 champions (93%).

    If I wanted I could go back further I suppose

    - Pippen and Horace Grant with the Bulls
    - Clyde Drexler with the 1995 Rockets
    - Joe Dumars with the Bad Boy Pistons
    - James Worthy with the Showtime Lakers

    etc, etc, etc.

    So basically every single championship team has had a guy who is very good from mid-range as a second option. Not saying it's absolutely necessary (though history would suggest it is), but what it does show is that it is possible and can actually be a healthy part of a championship formula. Even more interesting is that the bulk of those guys I listed (except Terry and I suppose Bosh of course) couldn't shoot the 3 worth a damn. Just gonna look at the 2000s era guys because I'm being lazy.

    Kobe - 29.4% in 3 years during Lakers 3-Peat
    Rip - 26.5%
    Parker - 32.0% combined in 2003, 2005, 2007 title runs; only made about one 3 every other game.
    KG - 0%
    Gasol - 14.3% (1-7) during back-to-back titles
    Wade - 26.2% during back-to-back titles

    Another thing that's consistent between these guys is high free-throw draw rates. (DeRozan for reference was at 0.448)

    Kobe - 0.361
    Rip - 0.293
    Parker - 0.295
    Garnett - 0.339
    Gasol - 0.425
    Wade - 0.372

    Where DeRozan needs to step up is in terms of efficiency, although I think that would increase as a by-product of being a second option. But just for reference here are their TS% (DeMar 53.2%)

    Kobe - 54.7%
    Rip - 52.2%
    Parker - 54.7%
    Garnett - 58.8%
    Gasol - 60.5%
    Wade - 56.5%

    Additionally, some of these guys (except Garnett and Kobe) were just known as solid or ok defenders at the time. None of them were stoppers, and frequently had their fellow wing/backcourt mate assigned to guard the other team's best wing scorer (Tayshaun for Rip, LeBron/Battier for Wade, etc).

    But yeah we can't win a title with DeRozan.

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    live by the jumper, die by the jumper
    thunder showed this 2 years ago, and they had a host of mid-range shooters
    we need a bonafide player that can get buckets on good days, and bad days, not a streaky shooter like derozan

    kevin love comes to mind.
    kevin durant comes to mind.
    lebron james comes to mind.

    who's on the market? kevin love.
    trade dd and picks + relief to get kevin love & one bad contract of theirs (budinger)

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    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Why is your nickname imanshumpert?
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    Why is your nickname imanshumpert?
    Because his name is cool.

    No I'm not a Knicks fan, I hate them with a passion.

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    Quote 2kfeen wrote: View Post
    live by the jumper, die by the jumper
    thunder showed this 2 years ago, and they had a host of mid-range shooters
    we need a bonafide player that can get buckets on good days, and bad days, not a streaky shooter like derozan

    kevin love comes to mind.
    Kevin durant comes to mind.
    Lebron james comes to mind.

    Who's on the market? Kevin love.
    Trade dd and picks + relief to get kevin love & one bad contract of theirs (budinger)
    second option not first

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    I doubt many people disagree with the notion that DD is currently suited to being a second option on a championship team. But for the next couple years, unless MU is really a magician we won't have cap space to get a first option.

    Let's say we want to keep certain guys for the intangibles they bring to the team, like community work, passion and leadership, and so on.

    That'd be AJ (8M a season) and potentially GV? (expected 3-4M a season)

    We want to reward Lowry and DD for their contributions this year and keep them for atleast one more year before exploring possible trade options to upgrade talent on the roster.

    That'd be DD (9M a season) and Lowry (likely 12M a season)

    JV and Ross come off their rookie contracts in a couple years. Need cap space for that. Can't even say how much we'd pay to keep them.

    So that's like 35-40M a year, with more expected when JV and Ross need to be resigned.

    So is it likely to draft or develop a player on our roster in to a 1st tier scoring option? Unlikely.

    Can we sign for one in 2015 or 2016?

    I have strong doubts about 2015 just because everyone is gunning for that year, and competition for FA usually doesn't bode well for T.O. getting it's quarry.

    As for 2016.........well, that's too be continued...........

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    DeRozan is worse than a typical 2nd option on a championship team.

    Also, the 2nd option has to compliment the 1st option. Until the Raptors get the 1st option, it's hard to say if DeMar is an ideal fit or not.

    As for mid range game, it's of course an important tool, since it opens up the game for a player. If defense has to respect your midrange game, you have an easier time using more efficient offensive tools. It's not something unique for 2nd options, every volume scorer needs midrange game except an occasional freak like Shaq.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I love a lot about DD but on a legit top tier contender that can hang with the Heat, he's more likely gonna be your third best player... You know, kind of like Bosh... Only not obnoxious.

    Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk

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    DD will be our third option with Lowry
    2nd JV
    1st Durant

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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    There are some points of your post that I agree with but overall it feels like you're trying a little too hard to connect the dots with the conclusion that DD is the "ideal" second option on a championship team.

    Gasol shouldn't be on your list for starters. He did most of his damage in the paint during the championship seasons and there's a difference between taking a couple midrange shots a game because you're wide open and taking 50 plus percent of your field goal attempts from there like DD and a couple of the other guys on the list. I also don't think you can fairly compare DD to guys like Kobe, who's an all time shot creator and maker from all areas of the court and KG, who's probably one of the better defensive anchors over the past 20 years. There are similarities in some of their stats for sure but I feel like they either brought something else significant to the table besides offense or were just on a completely different level as a player. Monta Ellis meets a lot of the criteria laid out for Derozan as well... how many of us would call him an ideal second option for a championship team?
    Last edited by Fully; Thu Jun 5th, 2014 at 11:00 PM.

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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    There are some points of your post that I agree with but overall it feels like you're trying a little too hard to connect the dots with the conclusion that DD is the "ideal" second option on a championship team.

    Gasol shouldn't be on your list for starters. He did most of his damage in the paint during the championship seasons and there's a difference between taking a couple midrange shots a game because you're wide open and taking 50 plus percent of your field goal attempts from there like DD and a couple of the other guys on the list. I also don't think you can fairly compare DD to guys like Kobe, who's an all time shot creator and maker from all areas of the court and KG, who's probably one of the better defensive anchors over the past 20 years. There are similarities in some of their stats for sure, but you could also say the same thing about a guy like Monta Ellis... and how many of us would say he's an ideal second option?
    Ellis could be a pretty good second option, he showed it in Dallas. And I feel dd is better than Ellis
    In Swag we Trust

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    Ya, but is Dallas a championship team?
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Quote 007 wrote: View Post
    Ya, but is Dallas a championship team?
    Dallas is the only team in the playoffs so far that's really given San Antonio a fight to the death, and they did that without a real starting center and a frontcourt that's below average except for Dirk. They're going to get a center this year because they know to make it a priority, and they'll sign at least one more decent mid-level star as well because Dirk and Shawn Marion will come back for reduced salaries. They're a contender, plain and simple.

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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Dallas is the only team in the playoffs so far that's really given San Antonio a fight to the death, and they did that without a real starting center and a frontcourt that's below average except for Dirk. They're going to get a center this year because they know to make it a priority, and they'll sign at least one more decent mid-level star as well because Dirk and Shawn Marion will come back for reduced salaries. They're a contender, plain and simple.

    Roy Hibbert to Mavs... i said it first.. book it!

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    Roy Hibbert to Mavs... i said it first.. book it!
    Congrats man...

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Congrats man...
    Thanx xixi...nosi...imanshumpert


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    Hate it when people try to predict trades/signings with absolutely no basis and then just yell BOOK IT!

    Smh dude.

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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    There are some points of your post that I agree with but overall it feels like you're trying a little too hard to connect the dots with the conclusion that DD is the "ideal" second option on a championship team.

    Gasol shouldn't be on your list for starters. He did most of his damage in the paint during the championship seasons and there's a difference between taking a couple midrange shots a game because you're wide open and taking 50 plus percent of your field goal attempts from there like DD and a couple of the other guys on the list. I also don't think you can fairly compare DD to guys like Kobe, who's an all time shot creator and maker from all areas of the court and KG, who's probably one of the better defensive anchors over the past 20 years. There are similarities in some of their stats for sure but I feel like they either brought something else significant to the table besides offense or were just on a completely different level as a player. Monta Ellis meets a lot of the criteria laid out for Derozan as well... how many of us would call him an ideal second option for a championship team?
    Seriously.

    I didn't realize the Raptors changed their name to the Toronto DeRozans.

    If anything I thought they were the Drakes.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    Thanx xixi...nosi...imanshumpert


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    And based on the hatred, I wonder if it is Buddahfan reincarnated as well.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I love a lot about DD but on a legit top tier contender that can hang with the Heat, he's more likely gonna be your third best player... You know, kind of like Bosh... Only not obnoxious.

    Sent from my Note 3 using Tapatalk
    I agree 100%.As of now, DD can be a 3rd best player in a NBA championship. He has elevated his game every year and he is still young. This summer is KEY for him. Few more improvements and he can become a 2nd best player in a NBA championship team.

    The key to remember is that none of the other guys in this team are at the same level of DD or even have the potential of DD.
    Ross did not make the improvement that was expected of him last summer. We will see about this year. Amir is at his max potential and is in decline due to his injuries and his talent limitations. Big Val Well, lets see what he does this year. Big man take longer to develop.

    Based on all that and the fact that DD gets paid 10 million pay year, His Haters should stop hating and dreaming about his trade.

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