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Thread: We already have the perfect SF

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
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    I read on the main page during the playoffs that the reason that fields didn't play was because he was A lot of pain and I mean ALOT. Next year I expect him to be in Casey's system if the pain goes away
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  3. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter TrossTheBOSS's Avatar
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    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    I read on the main page during the playoffs that the reason that fields didn't play was because he was A lot of pain and I mean ALOT. Next year I expect him to be in Casey's system if the pain goes away

    Yea i think he had like back spasms or something so thats why he didnt play in game 7. 100% healthy fields can be productive, good defender.

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    Raptors Republic Starter YoungGunRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    I read on the main page during the playoffs that the reason that fields didn't play was because he was A lot of pain and I mean ALOT. Next year I expect him to be in Casey's system if the pain goes away

    Yup. Given this, I would really like to see him get some run at the beginning of next season to see if he is capable of playing more minutes again. If he finds his rookie form, then it is definitely a win for us. If he doesn't, Masaii can and will find a trade that brings in a suitable role player.
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    Perfect SF = Landry Fields ....

    This must be a Joke

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    Raptors Republic All-Star 007's Avatar
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    Is this thread for real?

    Talk to me in when the season's on, and he actually can shoot.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Among the Raptors' starters, the wing players shot 69.5% of the time. DeRozan and Lowry alone account for half the shots. Amir and Valanciunas together account for only 35% of offensive usage when they are on the floor.

    Given the way the offence works, there is no way Fields is going to see much court time unless he can get his shooting back up to around 43%, same as DeRozan.

    In the NBA finals, I see both the teams have a strong inside-outside game. If the Raptors were to shift to that kind of model, then Fields might have a chance. But I doubt the Coach Casey is planning on any such thing.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote caccia wrote: View Post
    Among the Raptors' starters, the wing players shot 69.5% of the time. DeRozan and Lowry alone account for half the shots. Amir and Valanciunas together account for only 35% of offensive usage when they are on the floor.

    Given the way the offence works, there is no way Fields is going to see much court time unless he can get his shooting back up to around 43%, same as DeRozan.

    In the NBA finals, I see both the teams have a strong inside-outside game. If the Raptors were to shift to that kind of model, then Fields might have a chance. But I doubt the Coach Casey is planning on any such thing.
    Well Amir and Valanciunas are supposed to account for 40% of offensive usage if each player carries the exact same load, so I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to show with that stat.

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    Just give Fields more playing time, and I'm happy. He doesn't need to be a starter unless Ross falls off a cliff or something.

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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    See, people keep saying this, but there has never been statistical evidence (even after his injuries) of him actually having a significant negative impact on the team's scoring, regardless of the minutes he plays. I think it's ridiculous.
    You mean statistical evidence other than his 98 ORTG @ 12.4% USG? lol. That ORTG is terrible for the miniscule USG level.

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  14. #30
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    Fields sucks, can we please stop pretending he doesn't?

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    Perfect SF for this team plays for the Spurs btw. His name is Kawhi Leonard.

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    On 2K yes, but in real life no. His health I believe should be the main concern, rather than his offense. He's a great locker room guy, class act, a professional. Plus he gets TV time on ABC!

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    This might be off topic, but man... Could we stash T-Ross to the Spurs for a season? I mean, look at Kawhi Leonard - he developed to one of the leaders of NBA championship contenders (not saying champions, there's still one game to win). I see many similarities in him and Terrence. T-Ross needs to improve mentaly and coach Pop with his staff could make it happen
    (Sorry for poor English )

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Perfect SF for this team plays for the Spurs btw. His name is Kawhi Leonard.
    almost. plays for the heat, name is lebron.

    kawhi a far third, after durant.



    i am surprised at how many people are giving fields a pass. i am just going to be happy when he is traded or let walk for 6 million off the books. that was 20 million dollars thrown down the toilet. i was excited year one when we talked about how he was injured and we expected him to go back to the mean. then last year i was like "well a year to heal and he should be good old landry". turns out the past three years are his mean, his rookie year was the anomaly. i mean grant will give us everything landry has the past two years for cheaper, for longer.

    done hyping this guy. anything he can give is gravy but don't expect him to return to form from four years ago.
    For The Win

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    All I'm saying...and I speak with someone that has his EXACT same condition (ulnar nerve entrapment) I can tell you that the healing takes for fucking ever. His is actually much worse than mine. That being said...and I would like to repeat it...Landry Fields is going to be whatever it is that he is this upcoming season. If it hasn't healed and corrected by then there is a sky high chance it never will and he will take on defensive role player duties at minimum salaries until he retires.

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Perfect SF for this team plays for the Spurs btw. His name is Kawhi Leonard.
    There are several guys who would fit in well. I think you could argue Batum may be an excellent fit, similarly good to Leonard (ignoring MVPs like LeBron and KD).

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Given the choice, I'd take Kawhi over Batum 10/10.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    You mean statistical evidence other than his 98 ORTG @ 12.4% USG? lol. That ORTG is terrible for the miniscule USG level.
    His individual ORTG? Did you read what I wrote at all? No one is arguing that he scores at an efficient rate himself. The argument is that he does not typically hurt a team's offense by being on the floor.

    If we were playing 4 on 5 with him on the court, you'd expect to see the team's overall ORTG plummet with him on the floor versus when he's off the floor, correct?

    And yet, this year, he posted a -2.3 ORTG differential. So the team got worse, but not significantly. Salmons and Hansbrough both had worse ORTG differentials than Fields. How is that possible? Keep in mind this is with Fields playing most of the year injured or recovering from injury. And somehow even when he was healthy towards the end of the year, Salmons and Hansbrough got plenty of minutes (438 and 321 respectively), while Fields got none (48 total minutes). But, but, 4 on 5, right?

    Even looking at last year (where his shot was just as broken), he actually posted a positive differential (+2.9). Only Amir and Lowry had better offensive impacts that year among players with meaningful minutes.

    Heck, looking at his historical adjusted plus minus, Fields has posted decent offensive impact numbers. This year, -0.1 (practically a break even player, suggesting his negative value above was from who he played with - a lot of his minutes this year came prior to the Gay trade when the team was a mess). Last few years: -0.7, -0.4, 0.4. Still practically break even numbers. He is consistently not a problem for the offenses he plays in.

  24. #39
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    His individual ORTG? Did you read what I wrote at all? No one is arguing that he scores at an efficient rate himself. The argument is that he does not typically hurt a team's offense by being on the floor.

    If we were playing 4 on 5 with him on the court, you'd expect to see the team's overall ORTG plummet with him on the floor versus when he's off the floor, correct?

    And yet, this year, he posted a -2.3 ORTG differential. So the team got worse, but not significantly. Salmons and Hansbrough both had worse ORTG differentials than Fields. How is that possible? Keep in mind this is with Fields playing most of the year injured or recovering from injury. And somehow even when he was healthy towards the end of the year, Salmons and Hansbrough got plenty of minutes (438 and 321 respectively), while Fields got none (48 total minutes). But, but, 4 on 5, right?

    Even looking at last year (where his shot was just as broken), he actually posted a positive differential (+2.9). Only Amir and Lowry had better offensive impacts that year among players with meaningful minutes.

    Heck, looking at his historical adjusted plus minus, Fields has posted decent offensive impact numbers. This year, -0.1 (practically a break even player, suggesting his negative value above was from who he played with - a lot of his minutes this year came prior to the Gay trade when the team was a mess). Last few years: -0.7, -0.4, 0.4. Still practically break even numbers. He is consistently not a problem for the offenses he plays in.
    Low usage / low efficiency players are harmful to your offense. I don't see how that can even be argued. These type of players necessitate having to have high usage players on the court (e.g. more DD ISOs), or even worse, having average guys have to increase their usage to the point of being inefficient (e.g. end-of-clock Vasquez airballs). Other guys end up taking the efficiency hit because Fields can't 'carry his weight' on offense.

    I suspect that that the flaw in your 'statistical' argument is that we need the data when we replace Fields in the same lineups against the same competition with a higher usage / higher efficiency player. In the Raptors situation, the most likely replacement player is Salmons - who is equally horrific. Not sure where to find that type of data, but if anyone can, I'm sure it's you, Dan. :-)
    Last edited by golden; Fri Jun 13th, 2014 at 09:11 AM.

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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Low usage / low efficiency players are harmful to your offense. I don't see how that can even be argued. These type of players necessitate having to have high usage players on the court (e.g. more DD ISOs), or even worse, having average guys have to increase their usage to the point of being inefficient (e.g. end-of-clock Vasquez airballs). Other guys end up taking the efficiency hit because Fields can't 'carry his weight' on offense.
    It can be argued by presenting evidence of a low-usage/low-efficiency guy who does not hurt the offense. And your reasoning appears to apply to low usage players in general, not just low efficiency ones - whether the low usage player is efficient or not, his teammates end up using the same amount of possessions since he isn't using them. And yet I doubt you'd expect a negative impact from low usage, high efficiency players like Battier or even our own Amir Johnson. Your expectations are valid (although ultimately I would argue incorrect), but your reasoning appears to be flawed.

    I suspect that that the flaw in your 'statistical' argument is that we need the data when we replace Fields in the same lineups against the same competition with a higher usage / higher efficiency player. In the Raptors situation, the most likely replacement player is Salmons - who is equally horrific. Not sure where to find that type of data, but if anyone can, I'm sure it's you, Dan. :-)
    I can do that! Here is how the team played for each of the starters when they played with and without Fields.

    With Fields / Without Fields [Fields Impact]

    DeMar: 110 ORTG 103.3 DRTG / 108.9 ORTG 106.5 DRTG [+1.1 ORTG, -3.2 DRTG, +4.3 RTG]
    Lowry: 110.9 ORTG 100.7 DRTG / 110.9 ORTG 106.5 DRTG [0.0 ORTG, -5.8 DRTG, +5.8 RTG]
    Amir: 111.9 ORTG 97.7 DRTG / 109.1 ORTG 106.8 DRTG [+2.8 ORTG, -9.1 DRTG, +11.9 RTG]

    Jonas and Ross both had very small samples playing with Fields so I excluded them*. Note the tremendous defensive impact, and the overall positive though close to neutral offensive impact. This support the APM data I quoted above - any negative impact is probably due to the crap lineups he tends to play with, as his individual impact is generally very positive overall and close to break-even on offense.

    * Full disclosure, JV and Ross both had negative impacts from playing with Fields (very large ones actually) but I really do attribute that to them playing a very small sample size together. Thought it best to add this note nonetheless to be transparent. Don't want to hide data to prove a point.
    Last edited by DanH; Fri Jun 13th, 2014 at 10:17 AM.

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