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Thread: Inbound Players This Off-Season: Love, Rubio, Mayo...

  1. #21
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    I'm not saying he isn't a good rebounder or player, but he's a free agent looking for a big contract and playing in a system that allows his game to prosper. He plays on a team without a single other rebounder, the only other guys getting boards are Harrington and Chandler.

    I just checked the stats and NYC is only 7th in FG's per game, I thought they would be higher.

    The raps really don't need to pay another white guy ten million a year not to play defense. I think Lee and Bargs could work and maybe Turk and Lee, but all three brings us dangerously close to a whitewash.

  2. #22
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    The Wolves are looking for a top interior defender to pair alongside one of Al Jefferson or Kevin Love. Andrea Bargnani doesn't fit that bill so I doubt they'd have any interest in the trade.

    Kevin Love is a terrific player. I'd love to see him on the Raptors some day.
    Last edited by Dave; Wed Mar 24th, 2010 at 04:38 AM.

  3. #23
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    Anderson Varejao for Andrea Bargnani

    That is a deal that I would like Colangelo to pursue. No idea on whether the Cavs would consider it or not.

  4. #24
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    Notes -- Kevin Love measured as 6 foot 9 and a half inches prior to the draft. He had a standing reach of 8 foot 10 which was about average for a starting power forward.

    Kevin McHale is really 6-11 or 7-0. McHale didn't want any of his opponents to know how tall he really was and admits he gave a lower height measurement to the NBA back when he was playing.

    Al Jefferson is a legit 6-10 with long arms giving him a standing reach of 9 foot 2 which is about average for a center (which I believe is his best position).

  5. #25
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    If Bosh stays take a look at Biedrins. Get him while GSW would still be in love with Nellie Ball - a game Bargnani could play I think.

    I think Bargs has more upside, by a fair bit, but Biedrins would be a much better player for Bosh to work with given his rebound and assist number are both much better than Bargs (blocks are close I think).

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter TheR3dMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Dave wrote: View Post
    Anderson Varejao for Andrea Bargnani
    I just threw up

  7. #27
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    Quote TheR3dMenace wrote: View Post
    Quote Dave wrote: View Post
    Anderson Varejao for Andrea Bargnani

    That is a deal that I would like Colangelo to pursue. No idea on whether the Cavs would consider it or not.
    I just threw up
    I think the Raptors would have won somewhere around 50 games this season if they had Varejao on their roster instead of Bargnani.

  8. #28
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    And next on my player "wish list":

    Ricky Rubio

    While it is possible that whatever team lands him could have to wait a year or two, it will be worth it. If Bosh is leaving then this team enters rebuild mode. Rubio is going to be one of the shining stars in this league one day soon and he would be an ideal candidate to lead a high octane offense. He's also a better defender than Jose Calderon. What would be his price tag? I'm thinking you might be able to land him for Jose Calderon plus something else. I'm sure they would be interested in DeRozan or Bargnani. Tough to say. Based on the mood around here I'm sure no one would cry right now at a trade leading to Calderon or Bargnani leaving town.

  9. #29
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    This will come into play if the wolves win the lottery too. Rubio would be the perfect piece to keep fans on board for a year or two while the team rebuilds around his eventual arrival.

    Kahn, the Wolves GM has proved he's unconventional and willing to make bold moves. Would Derozan and Bargs be too much? I'd like to throw in Jose as well and get back Love, but that would be a steal I don't even think BC has enough magic to pull off.

  10. #30
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    I think if the Raptors went to the Wolves with Calderon and an lotto protected 1st round pick that's all it would take to get Rubio. I mean they have Flynn already and Rubio has expressed adamantly that he does not want to play in Minnesota. Rubio has missed one season and I think there is potential for two more. I think there is a rule that after three years the rookie scale no longer applies and so then he would have the ability to get paid a lot more for his first NBA contract. On the flip side maybe its not all about money and with his rights traded to a more desirable location he may want to come over and take the rookie deal. If he doesn't make the jump this off-season, then it probably won't happen for two more years seeing as the CBA will be renegotiated and rookie contracts are certain to be slashed tremendously. He will definitely want to bypass the rookie scale then. One more thing, the buyout is a bigtime factor too.

  11. #31
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    I think the starting wing spots are pretty much locked down. Hedo Turkoglu because he'll be close to impossible to upgrade given his contract/age. DeMar DeRozan because he's the team's brightest prospect and would be very difficult to trade for a comparable/superior prospect who is under the age of 26.

    Chris Bosh takes up another key position either at power forward or center. I think he's a comparable talent at either position so I'm open to acquiring either a center or a power forward to play alongside him. I want that other big man to be an above average defender and solid rebounder and preferably, like Bosh, able to defend both big man positions to allow some interchangeability there (allowing Bosh to take the easier mark).

    Two good options at the point guard spot with Jose Calderon and Jarrett Jack. I'm happy to keep both players or to keep one player and move the other or to trade both players in search of an upgrade. Most teams are very reluctant to move talented point guards because they're so difficult to find and so important to the team's overall cohesiveness. Couple that with the Raptors mediocre trade assets and you have a situation that is hard to upgrade.

    The possibilities I would pursue are Jason Terry, Kirk Hinrich, Jamal Crawford and Ben Gordon ... all with the idea of Hedo Turkoglu taking a larger role as the team's primary playmaker instead of the point guard position. This would largely be a lateral move talent wise (possibly even a downgrade) but could help team chemistry. Read: Help Hedo be more effective and therefore the team be more effective. That said, it's quite likely that retaining Calderon will be the Raptors best available move.

    I believe the Raptors best path for both immediate improvement and sustainable long term improvement is done by focusing on removing Bargnani from the equation + replacing him with a versatile defensive minded big man.

  12. #32
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    Wow, Dave know this is all pure speculation and opinion based, but I couldn't agree with you less.

    The wing positions the raptors have are the weakest in the NBA. The point guard tandem is also one of the weakest. The only room for improvement in either one is Derozan and he is realistically two years away from making a leap. The NBA is filled with exceptional point guards right now, one could even argue the league has entered a point guard golden era. Most of the top teams are set at point guard, minus the lakers and because most of the bottom tier teams are also set, there is widespread speculation regarding what will happen with John Wall since Indiana is the only lottery bound squad unsettled at pg.

    I think moving forward Bosh and Bargs work well at 4/5. The key is to ship out everyone else not pulling thier weight.

    Terry is a chucker at the tail end of a career in which he never played defense. Gordon just signed a ridiculous contract relative to the fact he only does one thing well, shoot. Similarly with Crawford, there's a reason he has the longest active streak for never reaching the play offs, although he is an excellent sixth man, I don't think he's going anywhere. Hinrich is realistic because he doesn't really fit with the bulls and he's making too much money. Hard nosed player who brings it every night and doesn't back down. We might even be able to go Hedo for Kirk if the bulls unload Deng in a S and T or get fed up with his injury woes.

    I think there are teams who will take a flier on Hedo, especially if we sweeten the deal with a future pick or even Jack who has a very manageable contract.

    They key to moving forward is to unload anyone who can't play defense, that means Jose, Turk or Bargs. The easiest one to move is probably bargs, but the raps are too invested in him to get a fair return. The easiest way to move Turk or Jose is take back a more a talented player who is making more money. There's a ton of bad contracts out there and some might work for the raps.

    I think we want the same thing, but just through a different path.

  13. #33
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    The key things about Hinrich is that he accepts his role, is willing to defer to others when it comes to quarterbacking the offense and most importantly he's a good defender and hustles. I think he would be loved in Toronto his his blue collar play.

    He's never played for a winner before but that's ok, he's a role player and his team's lac of success cannot be pinned on him. If a S&T led Bosh to Chicago I would expect Hinrich in the package coming back... Along to Noah but that's a whole different story.

  14. #34
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    mo-sales,

    (1) Which shooting guards, that the Raptors could conceivably get, would you give up DeMar DeRozan for?

    (2) Any examples or ideas on possible Hedo Turkoglu trades?

  15. #35
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    The Raptors trading DeRozan for a vet at this point is like the Celtics trading Joe Johnson. The kid is so young you don't know how he's going to turn out. Best to sit tight with him seeing as this team won't be ready to challenge in the east any time soon. When they are, then think about moving him if need be. You'd have a better feel for him then too.

  16. #36
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    I didn't mean that we should trade Derozan, especially if we are going to be rebuilding, but he by no means is a sure thing. His rookie season has been less than spectacular and for someone who had low expectations coming into the season, I think he has still underwhelmed. I think a lot of that might have to due with the impact most of his other classmen have had on lesser teams.

    I think in a trade where we matched up salaries, we could get Iggy, Redd (gulp), Ellis, mayo if we threw in Jose, or josh howard to name a few. Realistically any team that is paying ten million and over for a two guard that isn't contending would gladly unload their stud for a good prospect still making rookie dollars for several more years.

    With Turk, I think we'd have to make a huge gamble. Either we give him away to a team like Portland looking to add one more piece, probably receive miller and an expiring or we take back an even bigger salary in return. A guy making near max money who isn't panning out on that ball club. Guys like Gilbert, Brand (ugh), Redd again, Maggette. While I'm not saying any of these moves necessarily make the team better, the chemistry on this team is awful and something needs to be done.

    The best trade I would make would be to package Hedo and Derozan for Collison and Peja and then try and turn Peja's expiring into another piece.

  17. #37
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    Mayo would be perfect for the Raptors. They offered him for Ellis straight up and the Warriors turned it down. I think the Wolves might consider Bargnani for Mayo. I think Mayo has the potential to have a far better career than Bargnani and if Bosh is leaving then Mayo would be a good candidate to be molded into team star.

  18. #38
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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    I didn't mean that we should trade Derozan, especially if we are going to be rebuilding, but he by no means is a sure thing. His rookie season has been less than spectacular and for someone who had low expectations coming into the season, I think he has still underwhelmed. I think a lot of that might have to due with the impact most of his other classmen have had on lesser teams.

    I think in a trade where we matched up salaries, we could get Iggy, Redd (gulp), Ellis, mayo if we threw in Jose, or josh howard to name a few.
    If the Raptors can get Iguodala by trading DeRozan ... I'm behind that 100%.

    Have to get rid of Hedo Turkoglu if the team brings in another ball dominant wing player though. There would be no important role for him to fill. Hedo would revert back to his performance level from his San Antonio Spurs days.

    I'm not interested in the other names. I'd rather the team developed DeRozan.

    Although, maybe Monta Ellis, so long as he is used as the team's starting point guard with Hedo Turkoglu remaining on the team. Not as a two guard though. A Monta/Bosh/Hedo trio would give the team a very nice mix of talents to base their entire offense around. Add some complementary pieces who can play D and rebound and you'd be onto something very good. Use Calderon, Jack and Bargnani as trade assets to finish out the roster.

    I would be interested in the same type of idea with OJ Mayo but I don't think the Raps have the assets required to get him out of Memphis -- difference being Monta's large contract which Golden State may or may not want to get rid of depending on what direction they decide to take this summer. Currently, Monta is unavailable but that may change over the next few months.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Would you be willing to trade some combination of Bargs/Jose/Hedo/picks for a starting two guard while keeping DeRozan and having DeRozan come off the bench?

    I'm not interested in that type of a plan. I would either rather (1) give DeRozan the starting role and a lot of minutes to develop with, or, (2) trade DeRozan and acquire a starting two guard.

    I don't think his development would be slowed down if he was given less of a role going forward.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The only shooting guards I would trade DeRozan for are -- Wade, Roy, Iggy, JJ, Eric Gordon ... and maybe Sefolosha. Five or six players.

    Outside of those names, I would rather keep DeRozan as the starting two guard.

    I am open to using him as a trade asset to upgrade another position though. Like the idea with Monta at the point. Or coupling him with Bargnani to bring in a better big man to play alongside Bosh.

    Not sure if I would use DeRozan to trade for a small forward. Hedo Turkoglu's trade value is so low. You could easily end up wasting a very good trade asset for only a marginal-to-solid upgrade. That loss of a trade asset could stop the team from making further improvements down the road. Immediate gain but long term pain. I'd be skeptical + cautious in trying to upgrade this position.

  19. #39
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    This thread is dedicated to players you would like to see the Raptors make a play for this off-season. I'll start by throwing out a name:

    Kevin Love

    How long will the Wolves bring this guy off the bench? Would they consider an unorthodox center like Andrea Bargnani as a solution to their center spot? I know Kevin Love would fit the Raptors more so than Bargnani.
    The Wolves really want Darko to stay. If they can sign him they will go in that direction. He is averaging 7 and 6 with the Wolves in 24 mpg as a starter. I understand that Darko wants guaranteed starters minutes to sign with them and not go back to Europe.

    He would come a lot cheaper than Bargnani and could be a double double guy if he gets his ass in shape and plays starters minutes. Even when he is not in shape he is a far better interior defender than Bargnani.

    We shall see what happens.

  20. #40
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    Dave I agree you fully. Derozan is definitely a talent and our most promising asset. If Bosh leaves, then rebuild around him, Weems and Amir and off load the baggage for expirings or future picks.

    If Bosh resigns and the MLSE is serious about paying for a contender, than next year will most likely be the last year a team can over the cap. Derozan is a top asset in this league. Courtney Lee, a similar player with less potential was essentially traded for wince last year. His freaky athleticism and rookie contract means we can essentially trade him for any player in the league making too much money on a bad team. Once we match up salaries of course.

    I think Iggy makes the most sense if we keep Bosh because although Philly says they like thier team and not looking to blow it up, they are paying 40 million for Dalembert, Brand and Iggy and the first two are fairly untradeable unless they throw in holiday. I'd be shocked if they turned down a Derozan, Evans, Banks for Iggy.

    GS is another team full of talent with no direction. They don't really like Ellis, but apparently they turned down Ellis for Mayo and Thabeet, so i'm not too sure what thier long term plan is. If Bosh goes or if he decides he wants to play in San Fran, I would love to bring in Randolph or Brandon Wright.

    I'm really adverse to the idea of trading Bargs, the guy just needs a leader or a good coach to get his fire lit every night. Last night he was amped up and I thought he played one of his best games all season. Of the Jose/Turk/Bargs, I would hold onto Bargs first and foremost, but that's me.

    Somebody's gotta to go though. I don't think its a coincidence that Hedo was out last night and we held Denver to under a 100 points. Having said that, our fourth quarter offense had negative flow or cohesion last night. If teams double Bosh were screwed because he can't pass out of the double team.

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