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Thread: Wrong about the "Superstar" to win a championship

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    However, it should be possible to emulate the style of play that the Spurs employ. Selfless players that aren't worried about stats, lots of ball movement, and each player that steps on the floor knows their role and is accepting of that, while still feeling like an important part of the club regardless of what that role is. That isn't easy either, but not a bad approach to strive for when managing a club.
    I'm not sure it is possible. Or if it is, it comes once every 3-4 decades. The organization and the players are all on the same page like you said, and it starts from the top. The Spurs have been this way for years.. 20 years. I like Dwane Casey but he's not Greg Popovich. Like several others have said, this was a very special team. Perhaps a once in a lifetime type of team. When Greg and Tim retire, we're unlikely to see it again (in our lifetime).
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  2. #62
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote Mindlessness wrote: View Post
    Point #1. Don't overdo it. I don't disagree with the notion that the Spurs at least have several all-star lite players. But I think first of all, Jordan, LeBron, and Abdul-Jabbar among others have something to say about your first point.

    Point #2. Chris Paul is alive.

    Point #3. And, yes, Manu is awesome, but let's not go overboard, George/Stephenson, DD, Thompson and Ellis all had better seasons than him.
    1: Duncan, at 200 years of age, just DESTROYED LeBron in the playoffs, has the most playoff minutes ever played in the history of the game, and has 5 Championships. I don't know how you can say he isn't top 3....rediculous

    2: Paul is alive, but for the fact that he only played 62 games this season due to injury I ranked Curry and Parker ahead of him....need to be able to play

    3: George is a SF, and had a pretty rough season shooting the ball even if you count him as a SG. The rest of those players, especially DD and Ellis, are not even close to as good as Manu is. To be blunt you are 100% wrong on this one. Don't "overdo it"

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    A lot of talk about Spurs having stars on their roster. They certainly do, but they also drafted them and none of them are paid like a superstar. If that's what you want to glean from the Spurs' build model, then I'll concede that this is probably the way to go with our team. However if you expect to see the kind of success that the Spurs have experienced, then I would say too bad for you.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    No, you can't. Some teams it comes together like the Pistons, Spurs, Mavericks. But other championship teams won because they simply had better players. Does it take a bit of luck? Sure. Of course it does. But if you load your team with top players, you're bound to perform better than if you don't. Building your team around 2nd round picks, as in the Spurs way, is not a model you want to chase after.

    When you look at the Bulls, Lakers, Celtics -- these were teams with dominant players at their position. Not only did the Spurs not have dominant players, most of their guys were low picks. As mentioned, 22nd average overall for starting lineup and that includes a #1 pick in Duncan. Another 4-5 guys on the bench that were middle 2nd round (~45th) picks. I'm willing to bet there isn't a single team in the NBA that has a worse draft pick average of top 10 players than the Spurs.

    I didn't use the word superstar in my post so I'm not sure where this is coming from. I think it is easier to attract a top 10 player than landing 8 quality NBA players with several ~35th overall picks (average pick of Spurs players minus Duncan).
    Ok, I see where you're coming from.

    But at the same time, could you build a team like the Spurs if your average draft position is like 13-14?

    Let's suspend disbelief for a second and imagine Lowry, DD and JV all become legitimate all-stars, we sign another borderline all star, and Ross becomes a borderline all star, then we're rounding out the team with rotation players.

    I see where you're coming from with the draft position angle, but are you of the opinion that making any team without superstars able to compete needs the stars to align?

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    1: Duncan, at 200 years of age, just DESTROYED LeBron in the playoffs, has the most playoff minutes ever played in the history of the game, and has 5 Championships. I don't know how you can say he isn't top 3....rediculous

    2: Paul is alive, but for the fact that he only played 62 games this season due to injury I ranked Curry and Parker ahead of him....need to be able to play

    3: George is a SF, and had a pretty rough season shooting the ball even if you count him as a SG. The rest of those players, especially DD and Ellis, are not even close to as good as Manu is. To be blunt you are 100% wrong on this one. Don't "overdo it"
    1. I don't really think he did, but his team destroyed Lebron's.

    2. Parker was voted as a 3rd team all-NBA so the majority belief is that he's a top-15 player, but not a top-10

    3. I think this one may come down to recency bias and exposure.

    I'm not sure you'd have been saying any of these things a couple months ago

    Edit: Huh, I take that back, I just looked up your post in that rank my SGs thread. I definitely think you were in the minority in that third one prior to the finals though.
    Last edited by stooley; Fri Jun 20th, 2014 at 06:53 AM.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    A lot of talk about Spurs having stars on their roster. They certainly do, but they also drafted them and none of them are paid like a superstar. If that's what you want to glean from the Spurs' build model, then I'll concede that this is probably the way to go with our team. However if you expect to see the kind of success that the Spurs have experienced, then I would say too bad for you.
    I think one important thing to be gleaned form the Spurs model is continuity. When you have a revolving door for your rotation players as well as coaches you are not going to implement a system that can be learned well enough that it becomes automatic. When you watch the Spurs play one thing you notice is that they don't even seem to think about their next move. The passes seem like reflex action. That only happens when you have the time together and the luxury to practice.

    When 75% of your players are familiar with the system, then you can focus on weak points, to improve overall play. You aren't going over fundamental stuff all the time. It also becomes easier to integrate new players into the system, particularly if one of your drafting/trading criteria is to look for motivated, high basketball IQ guys.

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  8. #67
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    Ok, I see where you're coming from.

    But at the same time, could you build a team like the Spurs if your average draft position is like 13-14?

    Let's suspend disbelief for a second and imagine Lowry, DD and JV all become legitimate all-stars, we sign another borderline all star, and Ross becomes a borderline all star, then we're rounding out the team with rotation players.

    I see where you're coming from with the draft position angle, but are you of the opinion that making any team without superstars able to compete needs the stars to align?
    Anything is possible. How likely though? The Spurs have incredible scouting, that's for sure. I don't know if we have that. We've averaged higher and don't have nearly the level of talent they have.

    I think you can compete without superstars, but to consistently contend, I don't think it's possible without the aligning of stars.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  9. #68
    Raptors Republic All-Star 007's Avatar
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    they drafted Manu at 57, and Parker at 28, you need good drafting.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Report: Lebron opts out of his contract and signs with... the Spurs?
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

  11. #70
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
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    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    Report: Lebron opts out of his contract and signs with... the Spurs?
    Lol? Link or it didn't happen
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  12. #71
    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    Lol? Link or it didn't happen
    It didnt happen lol
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

  13. #72
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
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    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    It didnt happen lol
    Ok that's makes sense. For a second I was just like wtf. Lebron Is a dick for leaving his team AGAIN because he lost. Going to the rival is just icing on the pastry
    In Swag we Trust

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  14. #73
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    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    Ok that's makes sense. For a second I was just like wtf. Lebron Is a dick for leaving his team AGAIN because he lost. Going to the rival is just icing on the pastry
    Lol, isn't it icing on the cake?
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  15. #74
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    1. I don't really think he did, but his team destroyed Lebron's.

    2. Parker was voted as a 3rd team all-NBA so the majority belief is that he's a top-15 player, but not a top-10

    Edit: Huh, I take that back, I just looked up your post in that rank my SGs thread. I definitely think you were in the minority in that third one prior to the finals though.
    LeBron was the best player of the finals that is true. But like Kareem, Duncan even at later stages of his career is a winner. Also please note that this season Duncans per36 numbers were nearly identical to his 2007 Championship season....

    If you go back in the thread "Is Lowry a top 10 PG" I ranked Paul 1st, Curry second an Parker 3rd....had a change of heart. Parker's body of work is just fantastic.

    Ya I was an outlier on that one with quite a few picks...I generally get the troll label :/

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