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Thread: NBA draft Grades are out ?

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Starter Raptor Jesus's Avatar
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    Quote RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
    I can't comment on what I would, or would not say about a possible scenario like you're assuming about me. What I can say is that this pick was a PR nightmare as soon as it was taken. Overreactions by fans, laughter and negative judgements by the media. The Raptors are in the entertainment business and all I'm saying is it "seems" like the Raptors staff was working the media hard to dig themselves out of a hole.

    Saying another team was going to take him because of his amazing potential sounds a lot better than, we had no plan B, C, D etc. once Ennis and Harris were taken. Just a theory.
    Except your theory has no reports from credible sources. The likelihood another organization has the time or interest to expunge the details of a missed pick to justify another teams decision is laughable.

    Whether or not there's credibility to the reports of outside interest doesn't change the fact that decision makers perceived pressure and assured themselves of the outcome they wanted with their first movers advantage. They'll be judged by its results.

    The PR nightmare looks to be short lived. RR's front page poll suggests we're over it.

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote caccia wrote: View Post
    I think he will bring toughness to Charlotte. Responding positively to the consequences of one's own poor judgment, as Hairston has, takes a lot of courage. I cannot speak to his work ethic. Also, if Lowry signs elsewhere, Vasquez will be the starting point guard. Then we would have no one really competent on offence to back up either DeRozan or Ross. Now that would be a bad situation. Essentially, Vasquez was backing up the point guard and scoring guard positions last season.

    Right now, I am waiting for decisions to be announced on Vasquez, Patterson, and Hansbrough. The draft seems to have had no effect on any of those situations.
    sorry, I meant toughness on defense, I don't think he's much of a defender.

    if lowry leaves, im especially glad we're playing the long game

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor Jesus wrote: View Post
    Except your theory has no reports from credible sources. The likelihood another organization has the time or interest to expunge the details of a missed pick to justify another teams decision is laughable.

    Whether or not there's credibility to the reports of outside interest doesn't change the fact that decision makers perceived pressure and assured themselves of the outcome they wanted with their first movers advantage. They'll be judged by its results.

    The PR nightmare looks to be short lived. RR's front page poll suggests we're over it.
    You're right, it's just my personal opinion on how it all went down. Although could the poll results be a product of the damage control from the Raptors PR people? The amount of fans that have changed their tune with very little additional information seems to be quite large.

    As for the bolded, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from other teams re: Caboclo if he was sought after by other GMs. It's not uncommon for a GM to mention the player they wanted, but missed out on. Masai did it in his post-draft presser mentioning Ennis by name. He didn't directly comment on PHX's gain, but indirectly did so as a TOR loss. So the idea that it is laughable to hear a comment on Bruno from another team isn't how I see it.
    There's math, and everything else is debatable.

    @clericalbeats

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Starter Katman's Avatar
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    Not sure I understand all the angst. A +20 pick is typically going to be a mediocre rotation player. If you are lucky (or good at scouting) you get something very much better, and if not that mediocre player is easily replaced through free agency. Really not sure why some people are getting so worked up about a 20th pick.

    As for picking Napier, you want MU to do the same dick move Phoenix was allegedly trying to pull off. The problem with that strategy is you could get stuck with a player you don't really want.

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
    I can't comment on what I would, or would not say about a possible scenario like you're assuming about me. What I can say is that this pick was a PR nightmare as soon as it was taken. Overreactions by fans, laughter and negative judgements by the media. The Raptors are in the entertainment business and all I'm saying is it "seems" like the Raptors staff was working the media hard to dig themselves out of a hole.

    Saying another team was going to take him because of his amazing potential sounds a lot better than, we had no plan B, C, D etc. once Ennis and Harris were taken. Just a theory.
    A completely baseless theory. It's possible from a PR standpoint. It's also possible Masai was just telling it like it is. This guy was 2nd on their board and they didn't want to miss out on their 2nd target after the first was gone. He's always been a really straight shooter as a GM with the media, so if he says they were worried he'd be gone by 37, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and figure he had a good idea of some team(s) that were pursuing him.

    He didn't try to build up a crazy PR defence about the pick either. He wasn't the one calling him the Brazilian Durant. He wasn't hyping up the kid like some home run pick. Between he and Casey there was mention of it being a big risk but hopefully big reward. These are not the days of Colangelo, where every pick was "the Italian Nowitzki", "the next Vince Carter", "a young Tyson Chandler" and so on...Ujiri doesn't care about building up hype and narratives in the media to play up his own decisions.

    And why wouldn't other teams mention missing out on Bruno? What's the benefit of making statements about a player no one knows anything about? Saying something like that in the media serves literally no purpose for them. It's not a player their fan base was hoping for and/or with lots of hype associated to him. That's generally why GMs will say something about a player who didn't drop to them, so that fans feel somewhat satisfied with that knowledge. Like with Masai regarding Ennis...Or for another team's example, Ainge with Embiid.

    *Teams that wanted him are probably only likely to mention it down the road if he turns into a good player....if they mention it at all.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Jun 28th, 2014 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I think this snippet from a National Post article speaks well to this

    Despite reports to the contrary, the Raptors genuinely did not think they would be able to get Caboclo at 37, or even trade down very far and still get him. There was certainly concern that Phoenix might take him with the 27th pick. Saying all of that, this seems like a decision that only Ujiri and a few other general managers could make. Even when Bryan Colangelo took Jonas Valanciunas with the fifth pick in 2011 — and that was far less surprising than the Caboclo pick — he supported it that day by saying that he had received praise from other executives in this league. Ujiri made no special effort to provide similar anecdotal support. He has four years left on his contract and has near-total control over the team’s basketball identity. “F— Brooklyn” aside, Ujiri has always been one to undersell, hoping the substance of his moves will shine through.
    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/...4-makes-sense/

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Why do people here keep saying that Harris was one of our targets? Everything that I have heard/read has stated that Ennis and Cabolco were our ONLY two targets...

    Also think of it this way, say Masai and the staff thought that the only two players they wanted from the draft on their team next year were Ennis and Caboclo, now one of them is gone and the other might not make it to the next pick. So do you take a player who you weren't prepared to draft because he was on some internet big board? Or do you just go ahead and take one of the two players you wanted, to make sure that you don't lose everything on draft night?

    Pretty obvious to me that Ujiri made the right choice, even if nobody had interests in Caboclo. It is just a smart move.

  8. #68
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    There was a report that once Ennis and Harris were off the board, things changed. Perhaps Harris was number 3 on the board. If two of your top 3 are still there, you trade for 22 and grab them both. I'd guess there was a big drop off from 3 to 4 on the Raps' board, so the Prince deal wasn't worth it.

  9. #69
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    ...Or they had Harris graded a tier higher?

  10. #70
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    ...Or they had Harris graded a tier higher?
    Possible, but they kept calling Ennis their #1 guy, and Caboclo their #2.

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  12. #71
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Possible, but they kept calling Ennis their #1 guy, and Caboclo their #2.
    Do you know where people got this Gary Harris rumour from? I haven't heard a single thing about the Raptors liking him to the same extent as Ennis or Caboclo

  13. #72
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Do you know where people got this Gary Harris rumour from? I haven't heard a single thing about the Raptors liking him to the same extent as Ennis or Caboclo
    It was a Marc Stein tweet during the draft:



  14. #73
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Ahh icic

    He is the only one with that report, everything I have heard from other media outlets and the Raps org say just Ennis and Caboclo

  15. #74
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    I'd bet Ennis and Caboclo were the targets because Harris wasn't expected to fall so far, but I'm sure once he did, they were seriously considering him.

    Andrew Wiggins wasn't a target, but they'd sure as hell draft him if he fell to 20, I think that's the idea with Harris to a lesser extent.

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  17. #75
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Yeah I look as Harris as BPA. Perhaps he was on MU's big board. In the end I'm glad Chicago (ie, Denver) took Harris. I like the idea of Bebe over Harris.

  18. #76
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    So much to process. Especially with Philly. And even more so since it's 2014 and there is a higher emphasis on drafting around free agency more than ever.

  19. #77
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    I am guessing it was

    E. Payton
    G. Harris
    Ennis
    Caboclo


    Also remember they had first and second round boards up.

    Bruno was known to be a project but because of his up bringing and length it was/is a perceived worthwhile project. Especially since outside of Dante Exum he is the youngest player in the draft. The kid is only 18 so it means that he has the time to get better. By the time he is ready to be a solid contributor he will be the same age as most of the kids in this draft class who are coming out of college. This is not including the fact that the kid will have a year/2 years under your own development program where you really have a hands on program in place that isn't seen by the public eye.


    I think the real test of an organization will be not only how they draft but how they develop those picks. If Bruno develops into a solid pick it will partially be because of his hard work, but it will additionally come as a result of the development/training staff that is in place.

    He needs to work on his handles, english, and body. He also just needs to keep playing. He has the tools so he just needs to refine them. Shooting is one thing he can check off. He will shoot better and play better once he can take the hits and drive and take contact. He has the right mind set around defence but he just needs to get used to it so thats something I am not worried about. He is kind of goggly eyed so he probably has sweet court vision. He will grow into a great player. I don't think his ceiling is Durant but more of a Peja S. with defence or Batum if he gains the weight/strength.

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