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Thread: Hindsight Time: Should we have tanked?

  1. #41
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    Why is everyone bringing up the Tanking concept over and over again
    It's really frustrating

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  3. #42
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    I had thought that we'd heard the last of the tank debates and it was time to change my signature. Guess I'll leave it on for a few more months.
    tank-agnostic

  4. #43
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    I won't bother I really thought Brooklyn beat Toronto this year and maybe the best centre in the east Brook Lopez would help their team. Don't suppose anyone saw Joe Johnson rip the Raptors apart by himself without Pierce or Garnett doing anything. I also thought Lionel Hollins was a good coach ... Oh well.

  5. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter Bonus Jonas's Avatar
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    I won't bother I really thought Brooklyn beat Toronto this year and maybe the best centre in the east Brook Lopez would help their team. Don't suppose anyone saw Joe Johnson rip the Raptors apart by himself without Pierce or Garnett doing anything. I also thought Lionel Hollins was a good coach ... Oh well.
    Hmm there's this guy named Joakim Noah, not sure if you've heard of him

  6. #45
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    I won't bother I really thought Brooklyn beat Toronto this year and maybe the best centre in the east Brook Lopez would help their team. Don't suppose anyone saw Joe Johnson rip the Raptors apart by himself without Pierce or Garnett doing anything. I also thought Lionel Hollins was a good coach ... Oh well.
    lol you're so stupid, the benefits Tross, JV, and DD got from not tanking (the future of our team) is far greater than the benefits any rookie could give us coming into this year.

  7. #46
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    Yeah OP you have the typical Toronto Sports Fan Syndrome, whereby an inferiority complex acquired from decades of shattered hopes and promises has lead you to decry any real success a Toronto team has from here on. Raps were no coincidence last year, and they are strengthening the bench, and developing a great young core.

    I see your argument's points, but to say the Raps are headed for the lotto? Raps can't beat Washington or Indy? Your injury argument applies to all teams and players in the L so that's moot. Raps are still poised to have 20 mil in cap space next summer. Stupidity.

    How you can find so many negatives among so many positives (especially considering this franchise's mediocre history) is beyond me. Just enjoy it and we ll talk around playoff time next year.

  8. #47
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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    Brooklyn was worse with Lopez in the lineup, and is gonna be without Kidd, Pierce, and Livingston. We don't know what Rose is going to be yet- he's been gone for two years, and Gasol is more likely to go to Spurs/Thunder. We're still better than Charlotte. We definitely can beat Washington. And if you're going based on intriguing prospects for non-playoff teams in the east- Shouldn't nabbing Bruno and Bebe, two athletic freaks, count as prospects for us? Shouldn't JV and Ross improving count for something?
    our 0-3 record last season against the bobcats says otherwise. so does our 25-37 overall against them.

  9. #48
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    If they tanked they wouldn't have hung on to their guys.

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    our 0-3 record last season against the bobcats says otherwise. so does our 25-37 overall against them.
    How about overall results though? Those should be considered as well. The Raptors finished 3rd while the Bobcats finished 4 games above 500 and 7th in the East?


    If I can remember correctly, almost every Raptors-'Cats game came down to the wire. They simply played the game of matchups and Big Al went to work on JV/ Amir. Lets not forget about that Kemba Walker game winner either.

    If your implication that our 0-3 record vs. Charlotte, one team out of 29, suggests that the Raptors were and still are worse than them, then I would say that you are wrong.


    The Hornets will be a better team next season. But will they overtake the Raptors in the conference standings? I don't think so.
    “You can sink and drown, or you can float, and we out here like Michael Phelps."


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  11. #50
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    Quote YoungGunRaptor wrote: View Post
    How about overall results though? Those should be considered as well. The Raptors finished 3rd while the Bobcats finished 4 games above 500 and 7th in the East?


    If I can remember correctly, almost every Raptors-'Cats game came down to the wire. They simply played the game of matchups and Big Al went to work on JV/ Amir. Lets not forget about that Kemba Walker game winner either.

    If your implication that our 0-3 record vs. Charlotte, one team out of 29, suggests that the Raptors were and still are worse than them, then I would say that you are wrong.


    The Hornets will be a better team next season. But will they overtake the Raptors in the conference standings? I don't think so.

    we've lost the last 4 games vs the bobcats. by definition of winners and losers, that means they're somehow better than we are.

    as for seeding? we were also at higher standings than brooklyn. how did that turn out for us?

  12. #51
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    our 0-3 record last season against the bobcats says otherwise. so does our 25-37 overall against them.
    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    we've lost the last 4 games vs the bobcats. by definition of winners and losers, that means they're somehow better than we are.

    as for seeding? we were also at higher standings than brooklyn. how did that turn out for us?
    based on your profound logic, Raps are better than Memphis & Dallas (2-0), and on par with OKC, Houston, GSW, Indiana. Exciting!

  13. #52
    Raptors Republic Starter YoungGunRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    we've lost the last 4 games vs the bobcats. by definition of winners and losers, that means they're somehow better than we are.

    as for seeding? we were also at higher standings than brooklyn. how did that turn out for us?

    As I said before, Charlotte simply unleashed Al Jefferson on us, and his low post presence in tandem with Kemba Walker's offensive game proved to be lethal. Amir and JV struggled to guard Jefferson. We got swept by the Spurs and Heat as well, and both teams exposed the Raptors' three key weaknesses:

    -containing large SF's from offensive explosions

    -Rebounding

    -Protecting the paint against post up big's (remember Gortat in that 3OT game?)


    One could also argue that the Raptors, despite having so many great athletes, do not tend to run in transition much, and I believe that transition defense is a weak point for many teams.

    Simply put, they are a superior team than us given the respective rosters of the two teams. Not in terms of overall record. Why? Because there are 30 teams and 82 games in the NBA season, and not every match up will be favourable.

    That leads me to your second point. All of us here were aware of the threat Brooklyn posed to us in the playoffs, given the amount of playoff experience and their ability to use such experience(with a tiny amount of help from the Refs) to overcome the Raptors and their lack of experience. Honestly, the Raptors, despite the odds, were one bucket away from beating the Brooklyn Vets and facing the Heat.
    “You can sink and drown, or you can float, and we out here like Michael Phelps."


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  14. #53
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    Hell NO!!! Probably around 40% of the league was already tanking (i.e. Philly, Milwaukee, Utah, Boston, LA, etc.) yet none of them got the number 1 pick! So if we did ended up tanking but we still didn't get Wiggins, we all would probably call for the firing of Masai and blame him for not being able to tank properly lol.

    We all thought they were gonna be worse after trading Gay, but they just started to click and began to play team ball that is very entertaining to watch. They may have lost the Brooklyn series (thanks a lot Joey Crawford and Derek Stafford), but they won our hearts. Their loss was not like how the Leafs blew a 3-goal lead in the dying minutes of the game, as their loss came down to one shot.

  15. #54
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    Quote chico wrote: View Post
    based on your profound logic, Raps are better than Memphis & Dallas (2-0), and on par with OKC, Houston, GSW, Indiana. Exciting!
    its better than the logic of 'oh hey, we're better than the bobcats for sure! we haven't actually won against them since early 2013, but we're still better than them!"

    i think we're better than memphis. but the dallas/okc/gsw games were quite obviously surprising as we were 'supposed' to be worse than them and we still are. i don't think we'd beat them in a 7 game series. same vs bobcats.

  16. #55
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    its better than the logic of 'oh hey, we're better than the bobcats for sure! we haven't actually won against them since early 2013, but we're still better than them!"

    i think we're better than memphis. but the dallas/okc/gsw games were quite obviously surprising as we were 'supposed' to be worse than them and we still are. i don't think we'd beat them in a 7 game series. same vs bobcats.
    How about that time when charolette won 7 games and still managed to go 2-1 against us. Does that mean that charolette team was better than that Toronto team albeit they both sucked
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  17. #56
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    I don't understand why the debate of tanking continues. It's not like the guys we'd be tanking for are surefire stars...

  18. #57
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    Quote RepTdot wrote: View Post
    no...tanking means no Lowry, no playoffs, no fuck brooklyn, no WetheNorth, no Jurassic Park, no franchise record 48 win season, no progress...we are in such a good position I don't understand how/why tanking is so huge to raps fans...lets break way from this loser mentality and enjoy being a winning team for a change!
    Wow. Very well put. Even the most steadfast tankers can't argue with that. Your post just reminded me of how great this past season was. Can't wait for October

  19. #58
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    Quote YoungGunRaptor wrote: View Post
    As I said before, Charlotte simply unleashed Al Jefferson on us, and his low post presence in tandem with Kemba Walker's offensive game proved to be lethal. Amir and JV struggled to guard Jefferson. We got swept by the Spurs and Heat as well, and both teams exposed the Raptors' three key weaknesses:

    -containing large SF's from offensive explosions

    -Rebounding

    -Protecting the paint against post up big's (remember Gortat in that 3OT game?)


    One could also argue that the Raptors, despite having so many great athletes, do not tend to run in transition much, and I believe that transition defense is a weak point for many teams.

    Simply put, they are a superior team than us given the respective rosters of the two teams. Not in terms of overall record. Why? Because there are 30 teams and 82 games in the NBA season, and not every match up will be favourable.

    That leads me to your second point. All of us here were aware of the threat Brooklyn posed to us in the playoffs, given the amount of playoff experience and their ability to use such experience(with a tiny amount of help from the Refs) to overcome the Raptors and their lack of experience. Honestly, the Raptors, despite the odds, were one bucket away from beating the Brooklyn Vets and facing the Heat.
    i agree that the term 'better' can be measured in different ways. team vs team or team vs overall league and etc etc. match-up wise we struggle against the bobcats time and time again.

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