Hindsight Time: Should we have tanked?

[Raptor Jesus]

Even if we could manage to lose near as much as Philly or the Bucks, Cleveland still got the prize.

Who knows what picks we get back for Amir DD and KLOE but if it wasn't Cleveland's it was a waste.

[Wiggins]

This is so yes.

The only difference is we'd have had a much better draft pick and no Lowry.
The raps are no closer to winning the east. As far as I can see they have the same team coming back next year at a higher price.
They finished 3rd last year in the east where half the teams were trying to lose every game they could and the other half were missing all stars most of the year. Not to mention that they had no major injuries the entire year and DeRozan had the best year of his career and Lowry had the only decent year of his career.
Even IF Lowry can keep playing at this level, which is highly unlikely, DeRozan has to keep playing at an all star level and the raps have to hope they have a healthy team all next year to match last years performance, and that still wouldn't get them 3rd if you disregard every other team will be better next year.

As for the other teams in the East next year?
Brooklyn gets back Brook Lopez an all star, Atlanta gets back Al Horford an all star, Chicago gets back Derrick Rose an all star and MVP and Doug McDermott and possibly Melo or Gasol, Charlotte gets Al Jefferson for the whole year, Noah Vonleh and possibly Lance Stephenson, Toronto isn't beating Miami, Washington or Indiana anytime soon. All the east teams that missed the playoffs except Detroit have at least 1 top 10 prospect from one of the deepest drafts in nba history. Cleveland gets Andrew Wiggins. Milwaukee added Jabari Parker. Orlando gets Aaron Gordon and Elfrid Payton. Boston added Marcus Smart. The following year is even worse when Philadelphia gets another top lottery pick, Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric, a healthy Joel Embiid.

Toronto is likely fighting to stay out of the lottery. Sorry.

[TSF]

that was a 27 win season if we didn't blow it up...

blow it up and who knows to what level we could have sucked

I don't know man. Philly started James Anderson, a guy who had averaged about three and half points and 1 and a half rebounds in 11 minutes per game for 62 games, traded away their all-star PG, made sure their prospect center didn't play, traded their starting center and starting SF and made sure the only good player from that deal got bought out, started Tony Wroten for 16 games, took a guy who averaged 8/4 in the D-League and started him 41 games, and only got the third pick.

[raptors999]

So is guess stupidity is like myopia for hindsight.

[TSF]

This is so yes.

The only difference is we'd have had a much better draft pick and no Lowry.
The raps are no closer to winning the east. As far as I can see they have the same team coming back next year at a higher price.
They finished 3rd last year in the east where half the teams were trying to lose every game they could and the other half were missing all stars most of the year. Not to mention that they had no major injuries the entire year and DeRozan had the best year of his career and Lowry had the only decent year of his career.
Even IF Lowry can keep playing at this level, which is highly unlikely, DeRozan has to keep playing at an all star level and the raps have to hope they have a healthy team all next year to match last years performance, and that still wouldn't get them 3rd if you disregard every other team will be better next year.

As for the other teams in the East next year?
Brooklyn gets back Brook Lopez an all star, Atlanta gets back Al Horford an all star, Chicago gets back Derrick Rose an all star and MVP and Doug McDermott and possibly Melo or Gasol, Charlotte gets Al Jefferson for the whole year, Noah Vonleh and possibly Lance Stephenson, Toronto isn't beating Miami, Washington or Indiana anytime soon. All the east teams that missed the playoffs except Detroit have at least 1 top 10 prospect from one of the deepest drafts in nba history. Cleveland gets Andrew Wiggins. Milwaukee added Jabari Parker. Orlando gets Aaron Gordon and Elfrid Payton. Boston added Marcus Smart. The following year is even worse when Philadelphia gets another top lottery pick, Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric, a healthy Joel Embiid.

Toronto is likely fighting to stay out of the lottery. Sorry.

Brooklyn was worse with Lopez in the lineup, and is gonna be without Kidd, Pierce, and Livingston. We don't know what Rose is going to be yet- he's been gone for two years, and Gasol is more likely to go to Spurs/Thunder. We're still better than Charlotte. We definitely can beat Washington. And if you're going based on intriguing prospects for non-playoff teams in the east- Shouldn't nabbing Bruno and Bebe, two athletic freaks, count as prospects for us? Shouldn't JV and Ross improving count for something?

[ball4life]

This is so yes.

The only difference is we'd have had a much better draft pick and no Lowry.
The raps are no closer to winning the east. As far as I can see they have the same team coming back next year at a higher price.
They finished 3rd last year in the east where half the teams were trying to lose every game they could and the other half were missing all stars most of the year. Not to mention that they had no major injuries the entire year and DeRozan had the best year of his career and Lowry had the only decent year of his career.
Even IF Lowry can keep playing at this level, which is highly unlikely, DeRozan has to keep playing at an all star level and the raps have to hope they have a healthy team all next year to match last years performance, and that still wouldn't get them 3rd if you disregard every other team will be better next year.

As for the other teams in the East next year?
Brooklyn gets back Brook Lopez an all star, Atlanta gets back Al Horford an all star, Chicago gets back Derrick Rose an all star and MVP and Doug McDermott and possibly Melo or Gasol, Charlotte gets Al Jefferson for the whole year, Noah Vonleh and possibly Lance Stephenson, Toronto isn't beating Miami, Washington or Indiana anytime soon. All the east teams that missed the playoffs except Detroit have at least 1 top 10 prospect from one of the deepest drafts in nba history. Cleveland gets Andrew Wiggins. Milwaukee added Jabari Parker. Orlando gets Aaron Gordon and Elfrid Payton. Boston added Marcus Smart. The following year is even worse when Philadelphia gets another top lottery pick, Nerlens Noel, Dario Saric, a healthy Joel Embiid.

Toronto is likely fighting to stay out of the lottery. Sorry.

i really dont understand your displeasure with Lowry? is it cuz he is chubby?

[raptors999]

He's pleasantly plump
( I figured out emoticons on my phone)

[Mindlessness]

That's a 27 win season. Coin flip with LA for Randle. Doesn't seem worth it.

Well, if we lost the coin flip, we'd still have a chance to draft Vonleh if we go by how the Draft turned out...

[Mack North]

Well, if we lost the coin flip, we'd still have a chance to draft Vonleh if we go by how the Draft turned out...

Your avatar is awesome!

[planetmars]

I guess it really depends on how well Bruno pans out. If he actually does develop into a good player (possibly better than anyone in the top 7/8 of this years draft) than no they should not have tanked.

The key to tanking is accumulating assets. The worse you are the better your draft pick in theory. But if you tank and get a bad asset than it can be a horrendous accomplishment. Assets can be used or they can be moved for different assets. Sometimes star players. Free agents like to go to places where they can win or live comfortably or get paid. A tanking Toronto team would only have money to offer but they would be competing with teams that have one or both of the other qualities a free agent likes - so they would have to work with developing their own talent or finding a disgruntled star ready to try a different team (although star players have so much leverage on trades that getting one in a trade would be very difficult too).

All in all I guess I'm okay that they didn't tank since the draft is still such an unknown. However if Vonleh/Smart/Exum all become stars and Bruno turns into a bust or Lowry becomes fat than the strategy would have backfired.

The other thing to note is that Cleveland moved from 9 to 1.. so if Toronto did try to tank but ended up with the 9th worst record than that would have been better. The question however is would Wiggins end up being better than Bruno and Lowry? I guess we'll have to wait 3-4 years to find out.

[raptors999]

Anybody who suggest "lottery" as a solution to any problem is a dumbass.

[Raptor Jesus]

i thought it was their randomly assigned number came up, not the 9ths spots randomly assigned number

[Wiggins]

Brooklyn was worse with Lopez in the lineup, and is gonna be without Kidd, Pierce, and Livingston. We don't know what Rose is going to be yet- he's been gone for two years, and Gasol is more likely to go to Spurs/Thunder. We're still better than Charlotte. We definitely can beat Washington. And if you're going based on intriguing prospects for non-playoff teams in the east- Shouldn't nabbing Bruno and Bebe, two athletic freaks, count as prospects for us? Shouldn't JV and Ross improving count for something?

Seriously? So adding an allstar is a bad thing? Hollins is a downgrade from Kidd? Pierce barely played and was pretty well benched during the playoffs and Livingston is a 3rd guard. Rose was a league MVP. Even if gasol or anyone doesn't go to the bulls they still got McDermott. What is your reasoning that the raps are better than Charlotte or Washington? Just because? And there's a HUGE difference between Wiggins and Parker or Bruno and Bebe ... See if Ujiri or anyone with a brain would draft Bruno or Bebe at #1 in this draft over wiggins and Parker. And I like Bruno at 20 but no way I'd pass wiggins or Parker for him at any point.

[white men can't jump]

Seriously? So adding an allstar is a bad thing? Hollins is a downgrade from Kidd? Pierce barely played and was pretty well benched during the playoffs and Livingston is a 3rd guard. Rose was a league MVP. Even if gasol or anyone doesn't go to the bulls they still got McDermott. What is your reasoning that the raps are better than Charlotte or Washington? Just because? And there's a HUGE difference between Wiggins and Parker or Bruno and Bebe ... See if Ujiri or anyone with a brain would draft Bruno or Bebe at #1 in this draft over wiggins and Parker. And I like Bruno at 20 but no way I'd pass wiggins or Parker for him at any point.

What are you talking about?

Pierce played more in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. MORE. He averaged 30.7 mpg.

And Livingston was one of their most important players, arguably right behind JJ and Pierce. They really needed the length and athleticism he brought, as well as the extra post player to give JJ a rest from initiating their O. Not to mention a capable backup PG for Deron "anybody seen my ankles? I lost them at the buffet" Williams

[Wiggins]

i really dont understand your displeasure with Lowry? is it cuz he is chubby?

I don't understand your love for Lowry. Is it because he finally had one decent year after 8 years in the league and is getting paid double what he did last year? Is it because he's a huge pg that can get blocked by Kevin Hart? Is it because he's getting paid like he's an all star when he likely never will be? Is it because he's 28 and a young prospect with potential to improve?