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Thread: Patterson & Vasquez Overpay?

  1. #41
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    I saw $24 million as the realistic pricetag for Lowry, Vasquez, and Patterson, and we came out pretty close to that. At least, that's about the max that we could offer and still have near-max free agent room next year. I think you can quibble about a million here and there, but the key is that we kept the salary flexibility we needed. If you compare these guys to some players, they look like steals. If you compare them to others, they look like overpays. That's the nature of contracts in the NBA. But the reality is that these contracts make sense for the Raptors because they maintain good young assets (obviously a priority for Ujiri) and also maintain cap flexibility in coming years. I don't see what's not to like.
    +1. Main goal was to maintain cap flexibility. Only short-term contracts, essentially all 2/3 years. I could Lowry's as a 3, since he has an ETO. I would suspect he's likely to opt out, to get one of last 3/4 year contract, another larger pay-day.

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    Blazer's sign Blake to 2 year deal worth 4.2 million with player option for 2nd year !!!!
    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...-two-year-deal

    Is G.V. that much better than Blake ? To the fanatic Raptor fans here,yes but to the rest of NBA NO , not that much better to justify the over paying him.

    Talking about Market setting value of the contract BS

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Blazer's sign Blake to 2 year deal worth 4.2 million with player option for 2nd year !!!!
    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...-two-year-deal

    Is G.V. that much better than Blake ? To the fanatic Raptor fans here,yes but to the rest of NBA NO , not that much better to justify the over paying him.

    Talking about Market setting value of the contract BS
    You think the Vasquez isn't significantly better than Blake?

    He's also 34.

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    Quote phiLLy wrote: View Post
    You think the Vasquez isn't significantly better than Blake?

    He's also 34.
    Not based on PER 36, not based on what we need G.V. to do as a back up while we have Lou Williams and not for the difference in the money that we are paying ...

    You factor all 3 and you see our team would have benefited from a guy like Blake, with play offs experience and great work ethics and on a much cheaper contract than a G.V. unless we were getting the later for much much cheaper.

    In a Salary Cap league with limited resources, It is all about the fit, how much you want to spend on each position and what are your more urgent needs.
    Last edited by Jamshid; Thu Jul 10th, 2014 at 05:11 PM.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Blazer's sign Blake to 2 year deal worth 4.2 million with player option for 2nd year !!!!
    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...-two-year-deal

    Is G.V. that much better than Blake ? To the fanatic Raptor fans here,yes but to the rest of NBA NO , not that much better to justify the over paying him.

    Talking about Market setting value of the contract BS
    He was offered more by other teams, but him & his family really love the city of portland and wanted to return to live there. you can't compare the contracts simply because the raptors don't play in portland.

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    Quote Dino4life wrote: View Post
    He was offered more by other teams, but him & his family really love the city of portland and wanted to return to live there. you can't compare the contracts simply because the raptors don't play in portland.
    Yet

  7. #47
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    In my opinion both contracts are overpays, especially Vasquez. Masai is neither infallible nor some sort of a demi-god. But I'm not agitated or concerned with the contracts because they're not that big, and they're not that long. So who cares? The flexibility is still there.

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  9. #48
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    The way I look at this is they liked what they saw with Greivis past all-star break and into the playoffs. Those were some mad production games he had during the playoffs.

    This is a "here give me more of that production, else I trade your expiring ass next season" kind of deals. Because really, if he produced the same way he did during the playoffs, then there's no way this is an overpay. But if he doesn't, then his contract is easy enough to unload. Smart move really. Ensure rotation guys who produce get their due while not crippling the team's future should they not.

  10. #49
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Patterson has a good contract especially since the assumption is he is entering his prime years. He's a mobile forward, stretches the floor & is skilled enough to warrant the starting position.

    Vasquez is overpaid in terms of annual salary, about 2M more than what I would give him. The length of the contract makes up for it since it makes him an attractive asset in 2015. We can get more with Vasquez @ 6.5 compared to 4 in the trade market since FMV for a veteran role player in his prime is right around that range. Given Masai's trading skills, it could be the difference of nabbing a sweetener a la Bebe. Had Salmons been slotted at 5 M instead of 7, we probably wouldn't have Bebe on the roster. Obviously, different situations but you see the point.

    If he doesn't get traded, Vasquez has shown the ability to run the point as a starter. He offers versatility & balls to seize the moment (can comfortably close the game). These are luxuries the Raptors can enjoy with GV on board & I can live with the overpay; again, only 2 years.

    Re: Steve Blake

    He's good but I'd take GV @ 6.5 over Blake @ 2 because again, balls & versatility matters. Whereas Blake is definitely a back up, GV can make a compelling argument that he can start for a number of teams.
    I'm just happy that everyone is back, their contracts are reasonable enough that we can live with them & they offer that security should injuries occur to our first line.
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  11. #50
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Not based on PER 36, not based on what we need G.V. to do as a back up while we have Lou Williams and not for the difference in the money that we are paying ...

    You factor all 3 and you see our team would have benefited from a guy like Blake, with play offs experience and great work ethics and on a much cheaper contract than a G.V. unless we were getting the later for much much cheaper.

    In a Salary Cap league with limited resources, It is all about the fit, how much you want to spend on each position and what are your more urgent needs.
    dude... Per36 isn't everything. Uh.. we need GV to play as backup at two spots because him and lowry are a great 1-2. He's bigger which is not insignificant in this league. Blake's playoff experience and work ethic wouldn't have been as valuable to this team- they'd be way more likely to trust the guys they just went to war with and learned with, and work ethic is not lacking in this team. GV's confidence is huge for this team. And GV's not significantly better? GV's combined last two seasons- 11.7 ppg, 6.5 apg, 3.2 rpg in 28 mpg. Steve Blake's BEST SEASON EVER- 11-5-2, in 31 mpg. In his rookie year, he had .4 points less than blake, the same assists, 1 board less, and 8 minutes less. Since that rookie season, he has had- 1330 more points and 561 more assists than steve blake in only 679 more minutes, with a higher FG% percentage in every year. GV's career PER is 14.4, Blake's is 11.3- Blake's best season ever was 14.4 in 08-09. Blake's best is GV's average, according to PER. GV has more WS/48. Oh, and Per 36 numbers? GV Career- 13.7 ppg, 7.9 apg, 3.9 rpg. Blake Career- 9.9 ppg, 5.8 apg, 3.1 rpg. So according to points, assists, rebounds, field goal percentage, PER, per 36, and win shares/48, GV is significantly better.
    @Boymusic66

  12. #51
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    I was hoping that the Raps could re-sign Lowry & Patterson & Vasquez for $20M, but realistically expecting the total to be around $22M, so the actual combined total only ended up being $2.5M more. When you factor in the salary dump of Novak, it's essentially a wash, so I'm happy.

    With the expected cap space for both 2015 and 2016, along with all the young talent/prospects and 1st round picks upcoming, it's hard not to be hopeful about the next 3-7 years.

  13. #52
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    ^^^ the 2.5 is what people think he over paid G.V

  14. #53
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    ^^^ the 2.5 is what people think he over paid G.V
    Yeah, but everyone also expected Lowry on a 4-5 year deal, not a 3-4 year one, and GV and Patterson on 3-4 years deals, not a 3 and a 2. More money means less term. Which is infinitely more valuable considering the timing of the cap situation the next few years.

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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Yeah, but everyone also expected Lowry on a 4-5 year deal, not a 3-4 year one, and GV and Patterson on 3-4 years deals, not a 3 and a 2. More money means less term. Which is infinitely more valuable considering the timing of the cap situation the next few years.
    Yes, People were expecting lowry and Paterson on longer deals but less yearly for sure But you are right, the shorter deals means more money and more flexibility.

    The CAP room and flexibility that is going to bring us KD in 2016 and make us the NBA Champs.

    As far as G.V. goes, even at 2 year deal he is over paid

  17. #55
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Yes, People were expecting lowry and Paterson on longer deals but less yearly for sure But you are right, the shorter deals means more money and more flexibility.

    The CAP room and flexibility that is going to bring us KD in 2016 and make us the NBA Champs.

    As far as G.V. goes, even at 2 year deal he is over paid
    I'd rather have GV at 6.5 per for 2 years, opening up flexibility for when the major free agents hit market, then 4.5 per for 3
    @Boymusic66

  18. #56
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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    I'd rather have GV at 6.5 per for 2 years, opening up flexibility for when the major free agents hit market, then 4.5 per for 3
    This.

    For all you know, GV might have wanted a 3 year deal with a little more and Masai said no. The way all the deals are structured, there is a pattern to allow us a lot of flexibility in 2016.

  19. #57
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    Jordan Hill gets a 2/18 Contract. 2Pat, is better IMO.

    I think this is a very good price.

    Isiah Thomas also got a 4/27, 7M/Yr, but it's longer. It's well documented that you either take more money for a shorter contract, or less money for a longer one.

  20. #58
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    Statistically, Isaiah Thomas looked awesome.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

  21. #59
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    After Jordan Hills contract, the answer to the Main Thread is... NO. Both contracts are bargains in this market.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    I can not belive some people make the Giant mistakes of other GM to justify the actions of the other one without even considering what stages the other team is at, why they did what they did, what are their resources and ... It must be lack of simple logic.

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