Cavs Talk: Wiggin on the table

[Mapko]

This is a definite upside to the trade. It's also possible that Toronto could make a trade with Minny sometime down the road.

Personally ... the Cavaliers are idiots to make this trade. I know Love is a dynamic player, but if he moves to Cleveland, the naysayers will say that Lebron can't build a team - he can only be a part of the "bought & paid" type teams. His legacy will never be good enough, with that hanging over his head. He'll never match Jordan's legacy, no matter how well James plays.

All that being said, there's a reason why Cleveland has had 3 - 1st overall picks in the last 4 years, and will only make the play-offs this year because of Lebron. A certain degree of futility.

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I don't think he cares. Just win baby. Badly wants to catch MJ.

[stretch]

Parker is as much a work in progress as Wiggins.

[Apollo]

if the bold is true and he's not using that short contract for leverage than there is absolutely no way i'd include wiggins in talks. at least not until they absolutely have to (trade deadline). then i'd think about it. not sure if i'd pull the trigger though

There are other suitors for Love. The Wolves have no rush to get anything done. The longer this drags on the more it hurts the Cavs' chances of getting him.

[kopite91]

There are other suitors for Love. The Wolves have no rush to get anything done. The longer this drags on the more it hurts the Cavs' chances of getting him.

Not necessarily. I think the longer this saga continues, it hurts Minny more. They run the risk of getting lowballed offers from GS and Cleveland around the trade deadline as both teams should be in decent shape. These current offers will be the best ones they'll get..

[Vykis]

There are other suitors for Love. The Wolves have no rush to get anything done. The longer this drags on the more it hurts the Cavs' chances of getting him.

The longer it drags, the worse it is for the Wolves. K Love is tired of losing, he can opt out of his contract so if he's traded to a situation where he doesn't feel comfortable or stays with the Wolves he opts out of his contract and becomes a free agent, so there arent that many teams chasing him and if he's still there in Minnesotta by the trade deadline he might just go for a package worth less than Wiggins

[Mack North]

i do get all these points. they're quite reasonable.

i'd just rather be the 1996 lakers than the 2010 heat. in that same summer lakers signed shaq in free agency and kept the raw prospect they drafted (technically traded for on draft night), won titles once kobe grew into his game and then more titles once shaq left to become fat and old. if they give up wiggins and max out lebron, love, and irving, i think they'll plateau much the same way the 13/14 heat did in a few years and won't have much room to maneuver. (i know it's not quite the same in that shaq was younger than lebron and his contract was longer, but comparable situations).

wiggins and irving give them two franchise players to build on beyond the prime-lebron era (and i think we're at the end of lebron's prime).

and like i said, i still think they should try to trade for love and can put together a better package without wiggins than the other rumoured offers.



if the bold is true and he's not using that short contract for leverage than there is absolutely no way i'd include wiggins in talks. at least not until they absolutely have to (trade deadline). then i'd think about it. not sure if i'd pull the trigger though

The end of LeBron's prime? Really? The guy is on a next level... you put KD on a team like Milwaukee(or any bottom dweller, Cleveland included), and do you think he turns them into Eastern contenders? Not likely, from my POV. And KD is considered the next best player.
I think this is the thick of his prime, he still has at least 4 years left where he's considered the best player in the world.

[BobLoblaw]

if the bold is true and he's not using that short contract for leverage than there is absolutely no way i'd include wiggins in talks. at least not until they absolutely have to (trade deadline). then i'd think about it. not sure if i'd pull the trigger though

Not to mention that they can actually keep Wiggins and still clear max cap space for Love next summer.

Anyway, Bennett, Waiters, Thompson and multiple picks is still better than other offers. So why not just be patient and wait. Minnesota is running out of time and options.

Cavs are like this guy, always trying to be cooler than everyone else and losing their heads

[Apollo]

They can't offer him full max without the Wolves, that's why we're here talking about this.

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[BobLoblaw]

Depends on what you mean by "full max." The Cavs can easily clear enough cap space for a max contract without losing any of LeBron, Kyrie or Wiggins.

What they can't offer is the 5th year and slightly bigger raises. Only Minnesota can offer that.

[Apollo]

Maximum is the most possible and the most possible is via the Wolves...

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[BobLoblaw]

I used words 'max contract' the way the NBA uses them. The Cavs can clear enough cap space to offer a max contract. The Wolves can offer slightly bigger raises and an extra year. For example, Dwight got max contract from the Rockets, but he could've signed for more with the Lakers.

That ability to offer a bigger annual raise and an extra year is valuable. Or, it's usually valuable. If Minnesota doesn't trade Love, obviously it's not so valuable. Bigger annual raise or not, it doesn't sound like Love is staying with the Wolves.

For now, the Cavs seem to be in as good a position to sign Love as any other team. They can clear cap space for a max contract, and the only team that can go slightly above that is the team where he doesn't want to stay.

If the Wolves trade Love to GSW, that money difference might become important. But that doesn't seem close so far. GSW and the Wolves are so far apart, that offering Wiggins seems extremely premature.

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A side note. It will be interesting to see what type of contract Love actually takes. It might not be a 4 or 5 year contract at all. It could be 1+1 or 2+1 type of deal (similar to LeBron's), in anticipation of the new TV deal and higher max contracts. It's possible that Love could just stay with his new team for a couple years on a short deal or two short deals, at which point he'd gain Early Bird rights and he could get bigger annual raises anyway.

[BobLoblaw]

Also, I looked at state tax rates, and it's interesting how much tax the Warriors players have to pay.

California has an atrocious state tax rate at 13.3%. In Ohio it's under 6%. That California tax rate applies to all home games, plus 6 games each year that they play in LA and Sacramento. That's 47 regular season games that are taxed at California rate. The Cavs visit California just 4 times a year.

So lets say Minnesota trades Love to Golden State. The Warriors can offer him bigger annual rase at 7.5%. Well, rough math suggests that at those tax rates, Love is better off taking "normal" 4.5% annual raises in Cleveland over 7.5% Bird raises in GSW. Rough math though. I'm not an accountant, I could easily be wrong.

In the end, money is unlikely to be the main factor in Love's decision. But if it is a big factor, it looks like it would favor Cleveland, even if the Warriors trade for him.

Maybe that's why the Warriors aren't rushing to trade for him? They know that they can't really blow Love away with their financial offer. So if they trade for him, they will have to convince him to stay purely by winning. Steph Curry, Iguodala, Love is a formidable trio. But just one bad Steph Curry ankle twist, and they could easily miss the playoffs in the West and watch Love walk away. Very risky.

[kopite91]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...w-wiggins-week

Apparently Wiggins might sign this week. When he does put pen to paper, it starts a 30 day moratorium period where he can't be traded.

[stretch]

I hope Love goes to the Warriors. If reports are true, Love and Martin for Thompson, Lee, and Barnes is a much more solid deal for the Twolves than Wiggins, Bennett and a likely late first rounder pick in 2015.

Wiggins is going to struggle badly at this point in development if he is the first option in any offense.

[BobLoblaw]

I hope Love goes to the Warriors. If reports are true, Love and Martin for Thompson, Lee, and Barnes is a much more solid deal for the Twolves than Wiggins, Bennett and a likely late first rounder pick in 2015.

Wiggins is going to struggle badly at this point in development if he is the first option in any offense.

Would you want to build your team around Klay Thompson or Andrew Wiggins? The NBA won't end next season. There will be many more seasons in the future. Taking Thompson and Lee over Wiggins and Bennett would be an incredibly short sighted move, in my view.

Anyway, are reports now saying that the Warriors are offering Klay Thompson? Rumors have mostly been that it's just David Lee + Harrison Barnes, and Klay Thompson is off the table.