LVSL - RAPTORS vs MAVS - 6pm

[Primer]

HUH? You know ceiling means the top most possible, not the most probable. You're saying there is NO CHANCE Bruno becomes a star? I agree its not likely to happen; but that doesn't mean it cannot! In my opinion, Demar came into the league with less of a shot, with less length and size. The only thing Demar came into the league with that was better than Bruno, was athleticism and a work ethic.

Bruno has everything you CANT teach (size, height, and a good touch with his shot). Everything else, can be instilled into him (athleticism, Bball IQ, work ethic)

From all the articles I've read it sounds like Bruno has the work ethic already.

Demar is a good comparison. He definitely came into the league with less to offer than Bruno. He had no shot, no handles, no defense. Literally just athleticism and work ethic.

[thead]

DeMar had a mid range game coming into the league

[Primer]

DeMar had a mid range game coming into the league

Not much of one if I remember correctly. That's what he worked on extensively his first summer. Demar was extremely raw. He could dunk, and mostly just dunk.

[white men can't jump]

DeMar had a mid range game coming into the league

I don't agree. He developed the mid-range game after his rookie year. He tooks and made some shots in his rookie year, but his game was mostly slashing and close to the bucket. He was actually just as raw, if not more, than Caboclo offensively.

[DanH]

DeMar had a mid range game coming into the league

That was the scouting report, but he was really not very good (and remains not very good) at converting mid range shots.

[GLF]

That was the scouting report, but he was really not very good (and remains not very good) at converting mid range shots.

What's his percentage on converting midrange shots now? To me he hits a lot of them but stats probably says something else. He hits a lot of tough one's too.

[DanH]

What's his percentage on converting midrange shots now? To me he hits a lot of them but stats probably says something else. He hits a lot of tough one's too.

He does take a lot of tough ones (though that is another criticism of his game). Nonetheless, his conversion rate on midrange shots was 39.6% - worse than Vasquez, Amir, and Patterson. The issue is that he took 700+ mid range shots (the others all took in the vicinity of 100). League wide, when you look at players who take that many mid range shots, DD comes up on the low end as well. Aldridge, 42%; Melo, 44%; DD 40%; Dirk 50%; Al Jeff 38%; Wall 37%; Beal 37%; Durant 44%; Henderson 40%. Those are all the players with 500+ shots, in order of attempts.

DD compares favourably with Wall and Beal, but neither are known to be good midrange guys. The mid-range guys (Dirk, Melo, Durant) all have significantly higher percentages. The issue though is not his efficiency. It is the volume. He just takes too many at that efficiency - if he was elite like Dirk, fire away. Heck, if he was a big like Aldridge, and was screwing with opponents' defences by taking that shot (even at his decent but not great efficiency), fire away as well. But a shooting guard taking a mid range shot is not exactly going to bend defences out of shape. And at the rate he hits them, it's not hurting the opposition's D to give up 700 of those attempts over the season.

[GLF]

He does take a lot of tough ones (though that is another criticism of his game). Nonetheless, his conversion rate on midrange shots was 39.6% - worse than Vasquez, Amir, and Patterson. The issue is that he took 700+ mid range shots (the others all took in the vicinity of 100). League wide, when you look at players who take that many mid range shots, DD comes up on the low end as well. Aldridge, 42%; Melo, 44%; DD 40%; Dirk 50%; Al Jeff 38%; Wall 37%; Beal 37%; Durant 44%; Henderson 40%. Those are all the players with 500+ shots, in order of attempts.

DD compares favourably with Wall and Beal, but neither are known to be good midrange guys. The mid-range guys (Dirk, Melo, Durant) all have significantly higher percentages. The issue though is not his efficiency. It is the volume. He just takes too many at that efficiency - if he was elite like Dirk, fire away. Heck, if he was a big like Aldridge, and was screwing with opponents' defences by taking that shot (even at his decent but not great efficiency), fire away as well. But a shooting guard taking a mid range shot is not exactly going to bend defences out of shape. And at the rate he hits them, it's not hurting the opposition's D to give up 700 of those attempts over the season.

This is true. He just needs to calm down on the amount he takes because we all know he's never going to stop taking them. Where does he rank next to guards alone? I think he might be one of the better ones when you only include guards.

[The Great One]

I sort of agree w/ the DeRozan comparison. They're both very raw when they were 18. But DeRozan was actually a pretty good college player. He was named the Most Outstanding Player in the Pac 10 Tournament back in 2009. His biggest strength when he was in college was his slashing. He was a great slasher, great finisher. He could always shoot the ball(mid range), inconsistent though. Even back then he loves taking that tough Kobe Bryant fade away shot. Not sure why that skill(mid range game) didn't develop quickly in the NBA because that's always been his game. I remember his rookie year w/ the Raps, he couldn't shoot the ball at all for some reason.

But anyway, DeRozan was 19 when the Raps drafted him. Bruno on the other hand is only 18. Next season is like his freshman season if he was in college.

[DanH]

This is true. He just needs to calm down on the amount he takes because we all know he's never going to stop taking them. Where does he rank next to guards alone? I think he might be one of the better ones when you only include guards.

Well, I was looking only at high midrange attempt players. If I want a decent sample of players to look at, I needed to use all positions. If I look only at SG's, it means looking at players who take a lower volume (which may or may not imply all sorts of different things with the data).

But since you asked, looking at the top 20 or so guards in attempts, DD seems about average, but is far away from the elite shooters. A lot of guys floating around that 40% mark, several just a shade above or below, Kemba Walker, Rodney Stuckey and Kevin Martin embarrassing themselves shooting under 37%, and the few elites (Afflalo, 45%; Curry, 49%; Paul, 45%; Parker 45%; Crawford 45%) well above that mark. DD is probably a shade below average in that group.

And took as many attempts as Parker and Curry combined.

[GLF]

Well, I was looking only at high midrange attempt players. If I want a decent sample of players to look at, I needed to use all positions. If I look only at SG's, it means looking at players who take a lower volume (which may or may not imply all sorts of different things with the data).

But since you asked, looking at the top 20 or so guards in attempts, DD seems about average, but is far away from the elite shooters. A lot of guys floating around that 40% mark, several just a shade above or below, Kemba Walker, Rodney Stuckey and Kevin Martin embarrassing themselves shooting under 37%, and the few elites (Afflalo, 45%; Curry, 49%; Paul, 45%; Parker 45%; Crawford 45%) well above that mark. DD is probably a shade below average in that group.

And took as many attempts as Parker and Curry combined.

Oh okay. I don't mind him being worse than the elite players though since he's isn't quite an elite player yet. If he was below a whole bunch of crappy role players then I would worry a little more. But yea he definitely needs to cut the amount of long 2s he takes in half if he can. Also a lot of those guys are much better at getting to the basket because they have a better first step than DD and a better handle so they don't need to settle for 2s. DD's issue is if he doesn't have a really good screen set for him it's hard for him to get all the way to the basket at will and he isn't a very good three point shooter so he can't be taking too many of those. If he can improve his handle (and it looks like that's what hes trying to do) that will help him tremendously in getting to the basket better. Well at least I hope it will.

[iblastoff]

Did you really just compare Bruno to Solomon Alabi? Alabi had negative athletic ability and no basketball skills whatsoever (should have gone undrafted). Bruno has shown pretty good athleticism, and legit basketball skills. Maybe you haven't seen enough of Bruno, or have forgotten how bad Alabi looked, but they are not comparable at all.

Pretty sure NO ONE here has seen enough of Bruno. Seriously what athleticism has he shown so far? I haven't seen any.

[Puffer]

...Solid rotation player at best is realistically his ceiling....

Don't know how realistic it is to set a ceiling for an 18 year old who has been playing for 5 years and is now in the hands of one of the best management/coaching groups in the NBA.

[Primer]

Pretty sure NO ONE here has seen enough of Bruno. Seriously what athleticism has he shown so far? I haven't seen any.

Jumping extremely high, running the floor quickly, changing directions quickly. I've seen all that in the summer league games.

[iblastoff]

Jumping extremely high, running the floor quickly, changing directions quickly. I've seen all that in the summer league games.

that seems odd. i admit i haven't been paying much attention to the summer league games besides box scores, but everyone else here has said he can't jump very high at all.