Everything Dwane Casey

[Gambino]

This year no



Personally, Ime Udoka

I'm not sure about plan b's...but then again I'm not a high level NBA recruiter and that isn't a remotely relevant question pertaining to Casey's abilities as a head coach

Well if you don't think we should've beaten Cleveland, then what else did you expect Casey to do? For what it's worth I actually liked Udoka as well to replace Casey if he didn't perform, but he did. 4th best regular season record, conference finals game 6, you can't just tell a coach to pack his bags after that level of success. Continuity is in order with legitimate progression made, and need I remind you we had that success with our two all-stars for the most part playing like garbage and JV missing several games against Miami (and he was our best player in the playoffs).

You're acting like we signed a blood pact with Casey. If he starts to regress or under-perform he can easily be fired and replaced. But for now he's doing a great job, getting things done and exceeding expectations.

[jimmie]

Well if you don't think we should've beaten Cleveland, then what else did you expect Casey to do? For what it's worth I actually liked Udoka as well to replace Casey if he didn't perform, but he did. 4th best regular season record, conference finals game 6, you can't just tell a coach to pack his bags after that level of success. Continuity is in order with legitimate progression made, and need I remind you we had that success with our two all-stars for the most part playing like garbage and JV missing several games against Miami (and he was our best player in the playoffs).

You're acting like we signed a blood pact with Casey. If he starts to regress or under-perform he can easily be fired and replaced. But for now he's doing a great job, getting things done and exceeding expectations.

There is a large cohort on this board who can't get their heads around the success that this team has had with Casey as coach and Demar as one of the lead players (add in Lowry for some folks, due to his proclivity to 'only pass to Demar', engage in hero ball, etc.). Simply can't get their heads around it, because they can't explain the objective success through the subjective lens through which they view the game. Has little to do with results, team progression, continuity or anything else. It's an aesthetic/emotional argument ('I don't like iso-ball, therefore Casey and Derozan are shit', for example). Rationality seldom enters the equation.

[Apollo]

There is a large cohort on this board who can't get their heads around the success that this team has had with Casey as coach and Demar as one of the lead players (add in Lowry for some folks, due to his proclivity to 'only pass to Demar', engage in hero ball, etc.). Simply can't get their heads around it, because they can't explain the objective success through the subjective lens through which they view the game. Has little to do with results, team progression, continuity or anything else. It's an aesthetic/emotional argument ('I don't like iso-ball, therefore Casey and Derozan are shit', for example). Rationality seldom enters the equation.

Basically they'd rather risk losing their way than enjoy winning Ujiri's way.

[S.R.]

There is a large cohort on this board who can't get their heads around the success that this team has had with Casey as coach and Demar as one of the lead players (add in Lowry for some folks, due to his proclivity to 'only pass to Demar', engage in hero ball, etc.). Simply can't get their heads around it, because they can't explain the objective success through the subjective lens through which they view the game. Has little to do with results, team progression, continuity or anything else. It's an aesthetic/emotional argument ('I don't like iso-ball, therefore Casey and Derozan are shit', for example). Rationality seldom enters the equation.

Basically they'd rather risk losing their way than enjoy winning Ujiri's way.

I don't think that really sums it up. There is a legitimate argument that they type of basketball we've seen winning championships lately has a lot more ball movement, a ton of 3's, and great defense. It's definitely an evolution from the iso-scoring that dominated the NBA for years, and some are arguing as an ultimate goal the Raptors need to move in that direction.

Casey and this year's Thunder are making good arguments for winning basketball in other ways though, including ways that are already being written off as outdated on the offensive end. We'll see how far they can get with that. At this point the Raptors need to keep building on what they have, MU's doing that patiently and conservatively, and it seems like there's not much point in hoping the recreate the entire philosophy of the team + the roster all at once. Keep winning and building and let's see where this goes. I'm okay with that.

[Gambino]

I don't think that really sums it up. There is a legitimate argument that they type of basketball we've seen winning championships lately has a lot more ball movement, a ton of 3's, and great defense. It's definitely an evolution from the iso-scoring that dominated the NBA for years, and some are arguing as an ultimate goal the Raptors need to move in that direction.

Casey and this year's Thunder are making good arguments for winning basketball in other ways though, including ways that are already being written off as outdated on the offensive end. We'll see how far they can get with that. At this point the Raptors need to keep building on what they have, MU's doing that patiently and conservatively, and it seems like there's not much point in hoping the recreate the entire philosophy of the team + the roster all at once. Keep winning and building and let's see where this goes. I'm okay with that.

The type of basketball that wins championships is constantly changing. The only real constant is teams acquiring top tier talent, figuring out how to fit those guys together along with role players and creating a style of play that suits that personnel. Just looking at whoever the best team is and trying to copy that isn't really a recipe for success. Case in point, look at the way the Cavs are getting bodybagged right now trying to play like Golden State.

[S.R.]

The type of basketball that wins championships is constantly changing. The only real constant is teams acquiring top tier talent, figuring out how to fit those guys together along with role players and creating a style of play that suits that personnel. Just looking at whoever the best team is and trying to copy that isn't really a recipe for success. Case in point, look at the way the Cavs are getting bodybagged right now trying to play like Golden State.

I was actually really rooting for OKC to beat GS. Everybody trying to be GS is not going to be any more successful than everybody trying to be Michael Jordan.

[Apollo]

Gambino is right. The "winning formula" that the media shovels on us changes with whatever team is on top. It's better in my opinion to forge your own path and find a competitive edge rather than chase the trends and try to be like all the other copycats. It's better to set the trends because that's where the success will be.

[Gambino]

Gambino is right. The "winning formula" that the media shovels on us changes with whatever team is on top. It's better in my opinion to forge your own path and find a competitive edge rather than chase the trends and try to be like all the other copycats. It's better to set the trends because that's where the success will be.

I really think the Raptors should try to hang their hat on the pick and roll and drive game offensively and start incorporating the post a lot more with JV as well. That's a combination that basically no other team can run since no other team in the league has the combination of top-flight slashers as well as a legitimate post threat like we do (although Minnesota might in a season or two once LaVine/Wiggins figure their shit out). Also if we can add that 4th all-star talent, we might not be able to say we have a superstar, but we might be better than the other team at 4 out of 5 positions on any given night.

[slaw]

Basically they'd rather risk losing their way than enjoy winning Ujiri's way.

I'm not sure people would rather lose or risk losing than winning, so much as they really want to be proven to be right about their views, which are strongly held in some quarters.

[OldSkoolCool]

Well if you don't think we should've beaten Cleveland, then what else did you expect Casey to do? For what it's worth I actually liked Udoka as well to replace Casey if he didn't perform, but he did. 4th best regular season record, conference finals game 6, you can't just tell a coach to pack his bags after that level of success. Continuity is in order with legitimate progression made, and need I remind you we had that success with our two all-stars for the most part playing like garbage and JV missing several games against Miami (and he was our best player in the playoffs).

You're acting like we signed a blood pact with Casey. If he starts to regress or under-perform he can easily be fired and replaced. But for now he's doing a great job, getting things done and exceeding expectations.

"Took Cleveland to 6 games"

Honestly it sounds great simplified.

But how we obtained this seasons success will not allow us to reach the next level. That's not me being stuck with any one particular way to play the game. Just this Casey one wont work. We massively underperformed in the playoffs imo.

Right now we are a guard dominated slasher team which doesnt have elite slashers. There are other teams that do what we do but better...

What we have over other teams is elite post presence.

And as I posted weeks ago, NBA championships are won by being unique.

How we use the post (and high post) is up for discussion, and there are more than a few ways to do it. But Casey IGNORING it is probably one of the dumbest coaching decisions I have ever seen. It's indefensible.

[DanH]

"Took Cleveland to 6 games"

Honestly it sounds great simplified.

But how we obtained this seasons success will not allow us to reach the next level. That's not me being stuck with any one particular way to play the game. Just this Casey one wont work. We massively underperformed in the playoffs imo.

Right now we are a guard dominated slasher team which doesnt have elite slashers. There are other teams that do what we do but better...

What we have over other teams is elite post presence.

And as I posted weeks ago, NBA championships are won by being unique.

How we use the post (and high post) is up for discussion, and there are more than a few ways to do it. But Casey IGNORING it is probably one of the dumbest coaching decisions I have ever seen. It's indefensible.

Just a sec. Which teams do what we do better? I.e. guards dominating possession and scoring primarily in the paint off pick plays and drives?

[Gambino]

Just a sec. Which teams do what we do better? I.e. guards dominating possession and scoring primarily in the paint off pick plays and drives?

Was just about to ask this, there are zero. The only team even close is Portland.

[yabadabayolo]

Coaches get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose

Biggest reason the Raptors had the best season ever was because they had the best roster they have ever had. It's no surprise that looking back, every jump we made coincided with the removal of a major negative player....who was massively overplayed by Casey

I think this team as constructed could perform better with better coaching...that's the reasoning to replace Casey

That's kinda funny because before the year started, the general consensus including this board were saying we took a step back. And would be at best a 50 win team second round team. With us most likely winning between 45-48 wins.

Casey has done a hell of a job this year. He's not the greatest, but he's earned just as much credit for this year as the players have had

[DanH]

Was just about to ask this, there are zero. The only team even close is Portland.

Looking at the teams that had the most drives per game this season, here are the most comparable teams to use stylistically (slashing guard offence):

PHI: 37.1 drives, 96.6 ORTG
TOR: 36.0 drives, 107.0 ORTG
NOP: 32.0 drives, 103.2 ORTG
ATL: 31.1 drives, 103.0 ORTG
UTA: 30.8 drives, 103.1 ORTG
SAC: 30.0 drives, 103.3 ORTG

That's all the teams with 30+ drives per game. Note how every team outside the 76ers has a practically identical ORTG. Except us, we are head and shoulders above the pack.

[slaw]

"Took Cleveland to 6 games"

Honestly it sounds great simplified.

It is great. It's your spin on it that makes it not so great.

But how we obtained this seasons success will not allow us to reach the next level. That's not me being stuck with any one particular way to play the game. Just this Casey one wont work. We massively underperformed in the playoffs imo.

You've been saying the system won't win in the playoffs, isn't sustainable and you've been wrong. Why are you so certain it can't get them to the next level? As for massively underperforming in the playoffs, well, the implication being that performing to expectations would have been a title? What else could it possibly be?

Right now we are a guard dominated slasher team which doesnt have elite slashers. There are other teams that do what we do but better...

That seems specious, at best. Which teams?

What we have over other teams is elite post presence.

Over which teams? Who is the elite post presence?

And as I posted weeks ago, NBA championships are won by being unique.

Based on what evidence? All champs have a common denominator and being unique isn't it.

How we use the post (and high post) is up for discussion, and there are more than a few ways to do it. But Casey IGNORING it is probably one of the dumbest coaching decisions I have ever seen. It's indefensible.

Hyperbole. You guys take these immaterial issues and turn them into deal-killers.