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Thread: Knicks>Raptors? Ryan Ruocco thinks so!

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote MixxAOR wrote: View Post


    i would watch a couple of their games though.
    really good video on the ins and outs of the triangle. thanks for posting.
    @jerboat

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  3. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    you guys act like bargs is actually going to play though
    @jerboat

  4. #23
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    It's hard to get a read on just where the Knicks will be next season. New management, new coach, new offense, roster changes, etc.

  5. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Guys, who cares.
    #FREE

  6. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Just because someone says it doesn't mean you have to listen.

  7. #26
    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote MixxAOR wrote: View Post


    i would watch a couple of their games though.
    Great find. The triangle always sounds great in theory, because of its success, but it takes a very intelligent, willing and committed lineup to execute it well. Melo is a great cornerstone for the triangle in theory but it requires him to pass the ball...a lot, something he has potential to do well, but is reluctant to do. I just don't see Bargs working in the triangle. He likes to float on the outside and is an absolute ball stopper if he catches anywhere in the post (won't happen often as he'll play the 4, not 5). He doesn't have the quickness/handles/finishing ability to catch the ball on cuts, and will instead opt for long jumpers. Not ideal. Amare? He's a wildcard. Could be exactly the offence he needs, or could destroy his post game.

    Will be fun to watch though.
    There's math, and everything else is debatable.

    @clericalbeats

  8. #27
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    NYK didn't have troubles scoring. Unless there's a triangle defence Knicks will suck

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  10. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter mjt20mik's Avatar
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    Who's going to be running the top of the triangle. Normally you need a really good passer at the top. Gasol ran it really well. I don't think Bargnani is good enough to make the offense work well. In addition to that, they defense is shit. So they better hope to out score people.

  11. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    you really don't need that great of a PG to run the triangle, hence derek fisher being a starter for so long. being able to hit open shots to keep teams from collapsing on the "inside" players is more important.

    hence, calderon. i've long said he'd be perfect in a triangle offense.
    @jerboat

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  13. #30
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    like, the knicks roster last year was hilarious as is but they also had Woodson coaching them who's even more inept running offensive plays than *coughdwaynecaseycough* so it is what it is. i don't like melo and i really don't think he's a franchise, winning player, but he is a very good player. and yeah he takes a LOT of shots but lately it's been out of necessity. who else was he going to pass to? raymond felton? shumpert? the only other "scorer" they had was JR and he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. i'm using the term effective very, very loosely.

    now melo's got guys around him that can make shots. calderon, ellington, bargs (no but seriously) and early. their bigs suck, no question, but at the very least there's some options. not great options, but options nonetheless. add in a system that caters to melo's strengths as well as a handful of the players and i think you'll see a better team.

    if they can somehow trade shump and stat for something ANYTHING useful they'll only be better. i'm guessing they'll semi tank this year, sit on amare's contract and use the capspace next year. be a much better team.

    i mean hate on melo all you want, i do, but the fact is when he was with the nugs they were a couple botched inbounds plays away from being in the finals, and that was in the western conference.

    don't sleep on the knicks now that phil's got some semblance of organization going on.
    @jerboat

  14. #31
    Raptors Republic Starter RPT23's Avatar
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    As much as I would like to hate on the Knicks, I wouldn't underestimate them because:
    1) They have Carmelo Cleanthony
    2) ...can't think of anything else...
    3) ...still nothing...

    Well... it really depends on how well they are coached. If they appear receptive to a first year coach in D-Fish, then I expect them to be "in the mix". But I agree with some of the posters here, a lot of things have to go right for them to be even considerd Top 4. I hope that the Raptors are focused more than ever because the East Conference is so wide open, they have a golden opportunity to take advantage of getting the Top 2!
    #Raptor4Life, #Prepping4thePlayoffs

  15. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    One thing people are overlooking, probably because they didn't even notice. Calderon had by far his worst season as a pro last year, and judging by his age (he'll be 33 when the season starts) the decline is probably permanent and going to continue this year.
    His assist % dropped all the way to 22.4% from 34.1%. Calderon typically was above 40% for his career. Age is catching up to him quickly, and the Knicks are going to be paying him big money through 2017. Knicks fans are delusional.

  16. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    One thing people are overlooking, probably because they didn't even notice. Calderon had by far his worst season as a pro last year, and judging by his age (he'll be 33 when the season starts) the decline is probably permanent and going to continue this year.
    His assist % dropped all the way to 22.4% from 34.1%. Calderon typically was above 40% for his career. Age is catching up to him quickly, and the Knicks are going to be paying him big money through 2017. Knicks fans are delusional.
    These are the same knicks fans that thought Bargnani was gonna have a Renaissance when he was traded to NYK last year LMAO

    Us raptor fans have suffered watching a starting lineup consist of Calderon and Bargnani!
    Just give it till December when they realize that you cannot win with Bargnani&Calderon starting
    He's 2 years away from being 2 years away, but his wingspan is already here .

  17. #34
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    Quote MACK11 wrote: View Post
    These are the same knicks fans that thought Bargnani was gonna have a Renaissance when he was traded to NYK last year LMAO

    Us raptor fans have suffered watching a starting lineup consist of Calderon and Bargnani!
    Just give it till December when they realize that you cannot win with Bargnani&Calderon starting
    We had them in their primes too. NKY have them on a steep decline. I'm not sure if anyone on the Knicks is going to be better this year than they were last year.

  18. #35
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    How long wil it take the Knicks to learn the offense. More importantly who is going to play defense on this team - Sam dalembart?

  19. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Really?


    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  20. #37
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Lemme try to play Devil's Advocate here

    Calderon > Lowry (started over him like 4 years ago)
    THJ > Tross (Look at how Ross played in playoffs, what a joke)
    Melo > DD (obvious)
    Bargnani > Amir (come on! I'd way rather have Bargs taking summer 3s than Amir)
    Dalembert > JV (Dalembert brings that vet presence that JV doesn't have yet)
    Okay, now let's see you do that with our bench!

  21. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Lemme try to play Devil's Advocate here

    Calderon > Lowry (started over him like 4 years ago)
    THJ > Tross (Look at how Ross played in playoffs, what a joke)
    Melo > DD (obvious)
    Bargnani > Amir (come on! I'd way rather have Bargs taking summer 3s than Amir)
    Dalembert > JV (Dalembert brings that vet presence that JV doesn't have yet)

    Let me play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate...

    ON DEFENSE
    Lowry is a + Calderon is a -
    TROSS is neutral (although hopefully, this season a +) THJ, don't know him well enough, but I think giving him neutral is generous based on what i've read

    DD is a -, Melo is a -
    Amir is a +, Bargs is a -
    JV is neutral (although again, I think this seasons he'll be a +), Dalembert is a + (when he's not pouting)

    Raps +1, Knicks, Negaitve -2.

    That's before you factor in bench.

    The Raps were top 10 last year in BOTH offense (9th) and defense (also 9th). The Knicks were 11th in offense, and 24th(!!!) in defense. It's very possible that the Knicks will be a better offensive team this season than the Raps, but they'll be sooo terrible on defense that there's no way they finish ahead of us.

    There's a lot of good teams in the East now (although, not any GREAT teams). I don't see New York finishing higher than 7th. I don't see the Raps finishing lower than 6th.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  22. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter bryan colangelo's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    One thing people are overlooking, probably because they didn't even notice. Calderon had by far his worst season as a pro last year, and judging by his age (he'll be 33 when the season starts) the decline is probably permanent and going to continue this year.
    His assist % dropped all the way to 22.4% from 34.1%. Calderon typically was above 40% for his career. Age is catching up to him quickly, and the Knicks are going to be paying him big money through 2017. Knicks fans are delusional.
    Fun fact. Calderon my be one of the twenty best shooters in NBA history; a borderline 50/40/90 club member. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50%E2%8...2%80%9390_club

    They used him off the ball in Dallas to take advantage of his spot-up-shooting ability. He was doing a lot of the ball, which is part of the reason his assists are down.

    Being in the triangle is going to extend Calderon's career. All he needs to do is get the ball past half-court, make decent entry passes and not take dumb shots, which is Calderon's bed and butter. If he can still run the pick and roll, all the better. It doesn't change the fact that his lack of size and lateral quickness makes him a defensively liability, but that's been true since he entered the league.

    TLDR; I agree Knick fans are delusional, but Calderon is a huge upgrade over what they had, which is probably why they're getting carried away. Calderon should be a Derek-Fisher-type-starter for a championship team with three other stars, or a second unit, steady-the-ship point guard. He's too slow to keep up with the new generation of point guards.

  23. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
    Fun fact. Calderon my be one of the twenty best shooters in NBA history; a borderline 50/40/90 club member. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50%E2%8...2%80%9390_club

    They used him off the ball in Dallas to take advantage of his spot-up-shooting ability. He was doing a lot of the ball, which is part of the reason his assists are down.

    Being in the triangle is going to extend Calderon's career. All he needs to do is get the ball past half-court, make decent entry passes and not take dumb shots, which is Calderon's bed and butter. If he can still run the pick and roll, all the better. It doesn't change the fact that his lack of size and lateral quickness makes him a defensively liability, but that's been true since he entered the league.

    TLDR; I agree Knick fans are delusional, but Calderon is a huge upgrade over what they had, which is probably why they're getting carried away. Calderon should be a Derek-Fisher-type-starter for a championship team with three other stars, or a second unit, steady-the-ship point guard. He's too slow to keep up with the new generation of point guards.
    Derek Fisher was a much better defender than Jose ever was. Derek could play off the ball so much because Kobe handled the ball. Are the Knicks expecting Carmelo to be the primary ball handler, or Jose? I don't get the comparisons between Jose and Fisher, the only thing similar about them is they're both good 3pt shooters. Fisher was always a combo guard, which I thought fit the triangle much better than a pure point does.
    TLDR; I don't think Jose is a great fit for the triangle unless he's going to start playing like Kobe.

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