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Thread: Chi, Cle, Ind, Wash can all shove it

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    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Default Chi, Cle, Ind, Wash can all shove it

    I'm a subscriber to SiriusXM and I payed for the premium package so I can listen to the NBA channel.

    So for those of you that don't know, Chicago is the favorite to win the division according to all the "experts" on that station. They cite Derek Rose as the main reason why and some how think that McBuckets and Mirotic are game changers, oh not to mention that Pau Gasol has turned back the clock and is now the dominant healthy nightmare of a match up in the post.

    So Chicago is the #1 seed. Cool.

    Cleveland is #2. LeBron is that good and I don't think anyone would argue that, however this team is terribly flawed. Kyrie is somehow a "superstar" even though his teams have averaged like 30 wins since he's been in the league oh and he's ball dominant and can't play off the ball (see the tiff between him and Waiters for confirmation of that) Thompson is good as a 6th man I guess but I don't think he moves the needle all that much, Varejao can't stay healthy so he's a non factor to me. Oh and they have a great coach in Blatt but, he's never coached in the NBA let alone a LeBron James and the egos of Kyrie and Waiters. They should be at the least very interesting.

    Next on the experts list is Washington. Sweet Beal and Wall are great, Nene is good when healthy, Gortat is a freak and is probably on steroids so that's pretty good but then they lose Ariza and replace him with the corpse of Paul Pierce and somehow you're going to be better than you were last year??? I must be missing something. But I guess I'm being foolish because Otto Porter was really good in summer league and since that always translates directly the NBA they should be real excited.

    I don't think I have to break down my view of Indiana but I suppose I will... Hibbert is um, well hes kinda not all that scary anymore. Paul George is good but he's no star, West is old but still serviceable, George hill is gonna have the ball a lot which is probably not that great and they lost their biggest nightmare/most important player in Lance Stephenson. Oh and they don't have anyone worth while coming off the bench unless you like Scola.

    Now we're at our Raptors who they lump in with Charlotte, Brooklyn and the KNICKS!!!!! Hahahahahahaha

    So there you have it the experts have us slated somewhere in the 5-8 seed with a chance of not making the playoffs.

    I say, they can all shove it.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Without Lance, Indiana's going to have a hard time breaking 90 points next year. Hard to see them taking a top 4 seed.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    Next on the experts list is Washington. Sweet Beal and Wall are great, Nene is good when healthy, Gortat is a freak and is probably on steroids so that's pretty good but then they lose Ariza and replace him with the corpse of Paul Pierce and somehow you're going to be better than you were last year??? I must be missing something. But I guess I'm being foolish because Otto Porter was really good in summer league and since that always translates directly the NBA they should be real excited.
    Internal growth.............you know that thing thing that we've all been saying is what's going to make the Raptors better.

    Other teams are allowed to have it too.

    I think we win our division and take 3rd or (most likely) 4th, but I would put all those teams right there. Sure Lance is a big hit to Indiana but Paul George and West and Hibbert (look at his 1st half, he wasn't always putting up doughnuts on the board) and Frank Vogel as coach will get you 50+ wins.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Internal growth.............you know that thing thing that we've all been saying is what's going to make the Raptors better.

    Other teams are allowed to have it too.
    So the internal growth of beal, wall, porter, and rice are supposto stomp the internal growth of Val, ross, dd, Patterson, Vasquez, and the rooks to the point where we are lumped with the Knicks while they are taking the 3rd. Sounds about right...

    Those 'experts' are in for a surprise! Fuck Brooklyn
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    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Internal growth.............you know that thing thing that we've all been saying is what's going to make the Raptors better.

    Other teams are allowed to have it too.

    I think we win our division and take 3rd or (most likely) 4th, but I would put all those teams right there. Sure Lance is a big hit to Indiana but Paul George and West and Hibbert (look at his 1st half, he wasn't always putting up doughnuts on the board) and Frank Vogel as coach will get you 50+ wins.
    I agree. The problem is they don't put the Raptors there despite all of the flaws of the other teams. Sure the raptors have their own issues but I'd put them ahead of Indiana for sure and I think our depth puts us above Washington. Healthy Derek Rose and a somewhat healthy Pau will be an issue but there's no guarantee of either. The cavs will win 50+ because of Lebron but I don't see the Pacers winning anywhere near 50. They'll be in the 5-8 seed.

    Raps had the best record against the west since Dec 8 (15-7) and it could have been 17-5 if it wasn't for a bogus call and ejection of Lowry against Sacramento and the dud they threw up against the Lakers when Swaggy P went off.

    I think anything less than a top 3 record is a disappointment in the east.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    So the internal growth of beal, wall, porter, and rice are supposto stomp the internal growth of Val, ross, dd, Patterson, Vasquez, and the rooks to the point where we are lumped with the Knicks while they are taking the 3rd. Sounds about right...

    Those 'experts' are in for a surprise! Fuck Brooklyn
    beal just turned 21.

    besides ross and JV, everyone else is 25 and up by the time the season starts. what sort of internal growth are you gonna see from 27 year old vasquez?

    and who knows if the chemistry will still be there with johnson, williams and the brazilian summer league flops on the team.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    beal just turned 21.

    besides ross and JV, everyone else is 25 and up by the time the season starts. what sort of internal growth are you gonna see from 27 year old vasquez?

    and who knows if the chemistry will still be there with johnson, williams and the brazilian summer league flops on the team.
    I think our "internal growth" will be at least as much a factor as washington's
    "Bruno?
    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
    He's terrible."

    -Superjudge, 7/23

    Hope you're wrong.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie CalibreMC's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    beal just turned 21.

    besides ross and JV, everyone else is 25 and up by the time the season starts. what sort of internal growth are you gonna see from 27 year old vasquez?

    and who knows if the chemistry will still be there with johnson, williams and the brazilian summer league flops on the team.
    You do not know what you are talking about. Go back to sleep.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote CalibreMC wrote: View Post
    You do not know what you are talking about. Go back to sleep.
    everything i said was literally facts. feel free to dispute.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    beal just turned 21.

    besides ross and JV, everyone else is 25 and up by the time the season starts. what sort of internal growth are you gonna see from 27 year old vasquez?

    and who knows if the chemistry will still be there with johnson, williams and the brazilian summer league flops on the team.
    Aight then. For arguments sake, let's remove dd, Patterson, Vasquez, and the rooks off the list, subsequently let's also remove wall off that list. So your saying that the internal improvement of beal and porter is leaps and bounds above the internal improvement of Val and ross.

    Please man, that doesn't even make any sense, at least put Toronto at the same level as Washington if not higher in relation of internal development. No way they should be a eastern conference contender while raptors in the same boat as the fucking Knicks and the old tarts in Brooklyn.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    Aight then. For arguments sake, let's remove dd, Patterson, Vasquez, and the rooks off the list, subsequently let's also remove wall off that list. So your saying that the internal improvement of beal and porter is leaps and bounds above the internal improvement of Val and ross.

    Please man, that doesn't even make any sense, at least put Toronto at the same level as Washington if not higher in relation of internal development. No way they should be a eastern conference contender while raptors in the same boat as the fucking Knicks and the old tarts in Brooklyn.
    john wall is the same age as terrence ross. why would he be removed from this random list?

    who cares about otto porter at this point.

    wizards have been filling holes that they needed with serviceable players. everyone said miller wasn't going to do anything for the wizards last year cause he was old. he played great. in fact that one game against the raptors he murdered us. humphries and blair are super decent players as well that were sorely needed. since everyone loves chuck hayes and his 'vet locker room' intangible, then paul pierce has got to be worth 10000x than that. you know, the guy that lead that shitty old brooklyn team to beat us in the playoffs.
    Last edited by iblastoff; Tue Jul 29th, 2014 at 08:38 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    john wall is the same age as terrence ross. why would he be removed from this random list?

    who cares about otto porter at this point.

    wizards have been filling holes that they needed with serviceable players. everyone said miller wasn't going to do anything for the wizards last year cause he was old. he played great. humphries and blair are super decent players as well that were sorely needed. since everyone loves chuck hayes and his 'vet locker room' intangible, then paul pierce has got to be worth 10000x than that.
    But Wall is only one year younger than DD.

    And the wiz gained pierce, but lost ariza, their best perimeter defender and a knock down shooter who filled exactly the role they needed from that position.

    Any other free agent upgrades, imo, only just barely get the roster to treading water over last year, much like the Raptors.
    "Bruno?
    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
    He's terrible."

    -Superjudge, 7/23

    Hope you're wrong.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Lowry improved last year, Vasquez is likely to improve because he missed training camp last year due to ankle surgery. T-Ross is hanging out with dd and Lowry all summer so he should improve plus have even better chemistry. JV will probably be featured more so he should also improve. Lou Williams is healthy this year and will have a training camp unlike last year. DD will have improved handles at least which at this point what more do u want ? How many teams have players averaging 22 4 and 4?

    So yes I think our internal development will be better than washington overall

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    john wall is the same age as terrence ross. why would he be removed from this random list?

    who cares about otto porter at this point.

    wizards have been filling holes that they needed with serviceable players. everyone said miller wasn't going to do anything for the wizards last year cause he was old. he played great. in fact that one game against the raptors he murdered us. humphries and blair are super decent players as well that were sorely needed. since everyone loves chuck hayes and his 'vet locker room' intangible, then paul pierce has got to be worth 10000x than that. you know, the guy that lead that shitty old brooklyn team to beat us in the playoffs.
    I honestly don't even know what your arguing anymore, it feels your just shitting on the raptors now. How Tf does pierce have anything to do with internal development.

    And if you remove dd, wall has to be removed as well, their basically the same age. Btw, it's not a random list, it's the players on each team that can internally improve for next year...I thought that was clear.

    I don't get where your getting at other than saying Washington is better than us, which is not true.
    Last edited by Yabadabayolo; Tue Jul 29th, 2014 at 08:51 PM.
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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Here's my stand:

    The East is wide open; no clear cut number 1, HOWEVER, the East is significantly tougher than last season.

    Let's put it this way, if we all want to think these are the top 8 teams (no order)

    Toronto: Added bench scoring, defense and wing depth with Lou Williams, James Johnson, and two young rookies in Bruno Caboclo and DeAndre Daniels (jury still out whether signs with team, or sent overseas). Also, brought in a young big of Bebe Noguiera, internal growth of young players, and re-signing major core pieces. Raptors, on paper, marginally better, with hopes of natural progression to accelerate their process of building a contender.

    Indiana: Lost Lance Stephenson, but signed CJ Miles to spread the floor. Hibbert, still an elite defensive centre, Paul George an NBA All-Star, and a solid coach in Frank Vogel. No bench, terrible depth chart. Team regressed, however, still one of the league's best.

    Cleveland: Added the best player in the world, and added shooters Mike Miller, James Jones, and rumour is Ray Allen. However, lots of problems, Kyrie and Waiters ball dominant, and Wiggins, Bennett aren't included until this whole 'Love' debacle is settled. Lots of issues to fill out, including a first time coach in David Blatt who's never coached in the NBA, with a big task of having to earn the respect of LeBron James. Team got more talent, but are they going to fit?

    Chicago: This might be the one team that's almost a sure fire thing in the East, but, still, Rose's healthy will forever be a question, and with Gasol, who's barely been steadily healthy in the past few seasons, replaces Boozer who was at least a consistent contributor with few injuries in the past season or so (I might be wrong). Adding Mirotic, McDermott, with hopes of Snell and Butler improving, and re-signing Hinrich makes for a team with solid depth. Sure thing in the top 4 of the East. Unless, Rose, you know, *knock on wood.*

    Washington: Washington, like Toronto, is hoping for internal growth, natural progression, etc. Wall and Beal are guys with a year of playoff experience under their belt, but, lost Trevor Ariza, a solid outside shooting and defensive wing, replaced with the memories of Paul Pierce. Team regressed on the perimeter, however, the front-court looks very good, with Humphries and Blair solidifying an already solid duo of Gortat/Nene.

    Charlotte: Improved significantly on the perimeter, adding Lance Stephenson, an All-Star type talent, but will he fit into the system, considering the ball-dominant player he is. Walker needs the ball, Jefferson sure as hell needs the ball, and Kidd-Gilchrist isn't a good outside shooter by any means, which is also Stephenson's problem. Also, lost Josh McRoberts, a key cog to the team's front-court rotation. Team marginally gotten better, but, still a 5-8 seed team.

    Atlanta: This team improved without doing much, gave away Lou Williams, but wasn't a fit. Everyone must remember, Al Horford is coming back from injury. Paul Millsap and Al Horford is very dangerous, without forgetting Jeff Teague is also a very strong guard. Still, like Charlotte, not enough depth and talent to reach top 4, but has a chance, likely a 5-8 seed team.

    Miami: Team lost LeBron James, which sets them back about 2-3 seeds in my opinion. Wade and Bosh were very inconsistent, but, expectations are different about Bosh, who may have gone from number 3, to the number 1 guy. Chalmers re-signed, Cole returns, and Shabazz Napier drafted. The point guard rotation isn't bad. The small forward position, filled with Luol Deng and Danny Granger, and while both players together aren't even close to LeBron, Deng is one of the best small forwards in the league, and Granger was a solid rotational player last season between Indiana and the Clippers. Also, adding McRoberts to a pretty poor front-court rotation already makes them better on that aspect. This is the hardest team to judge, for they range from anywhere between 3-8.
    Last edited by ReubenJRD; Tue Jul 29th, 2014 at 09:08 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    I honestly don't even know what your arguing anymore, it feels your just shitting on the raptors now. How Tf does pierce have anything to do with internal development.

    And if you remove dd, wall has to be removed as well, their basically the same age. Btw, it's not a random list, it's the players on each team that can internally improve for next year...I thought that was clear.

    I don't get where your getting at other than saying Washington is better than us, which is not true.
    that doesn't even make any sense. if you remove wall because hes 'basically the same age', then you remove ROSS because he IS the same age as wall.

    the argument being made is the wizards have been making decent moves (like we are) to fulfill holes that were needed. theres no obvious way to tell that we're actually better than them in any way (and vice versa) besides just biased homerism.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    Lowry improved last year, Vasquez is likely to improve because he missed training camp last year due to ankle surgery. T-Ross is hanging out with dd and Lowry all summer so he should improve plus have even better chemistry. JV will probably be featured more so he should also improve. Lou Williams is healthy this year and will have a training camp unlike last year. DD will have improved handles at least which at this point what more do u want ? How many teams have players averaging 22 4 and 4?

    So yes I think our internal development will be better than washington overall
    Everyone's got a different thinking when it comes to internal growth.

    My take, is that whatever age you are, you can't stop improving. Lowry was 26 after having the best year of his career, Vasquez has been in the league for a bit and improved on certain aspects of the game. We can use examples from all over, like LeBron James adding a post game at about age 27/28. Kobe, same thing, getting older, had to develop his ability to go back-to-the-basket.

    Because someone is a certain age, does not mean they cannot improve in certain aspects of their game, whether it be their dribbling, shooting, way to score, defensive instincts, or to go as simple as their speed, or even their confidence. The difference, however, is by the time they reach a certain part in their career, you know what type of player they are, and that's why the jury is still out on guys like Ross, JV and Wall, Beal. Does everyone know what exactly they are at this point? No, because they're still young and have only spent a few years in the league.

    The question, is whether these guys become great players, or take steps to becoming terrific talents.

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  24. #18
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    Lowry improved last year, Vasquez is likely to improve because he missed training camp last year due to ankle surgery. T-Ross is hanging out with dd and Lowry all summer so he should improve plus have even better chemistry. JV will probably be featured more so he should also improve. Lou Williams is healthy this year and will have a training camp unlike last year. DD will have improved handles at least which at this point what more do u want ? How many teams have players averaging 22 4 and 4?

    So yes I think our internal development will be better than washington overall
    everyone was saying rudy gay with a full training camp was going to improve us last season as well.

    statistically, players right after their contract year play WORSE. we will see how lowry pans out.

    meanwhile, i'm sure all the wizards players (oh wait, according to yabalobabolo only 1 single wizards player is allowed to internally grow apparently!) are just sitting on their asses so of course its only raptors that are internally improving.
    Last edited by iblastoff; Tue Jul 29th, 2014 at 09:33 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    john wall is the same age as terrence ross. why would he be removed from this random list?

    who cares about otto porter at this point.

    wizards have been filling holes that they needed with serviceable players. everyone said miller wasn't going to do anything for the wizards last year cause he was old. he played great. in fact that one game against the raptors he murdered us. humphries and blair are super decent players as well that were sorely needed. since everyone loves chuck hayes and his 'vet locker room' intangible, then paul pierce has got to be worth 10000x than that. you know, the guy that lead that shitty old brooklyn team to beat us in the playoffs.
    Nope Terrence Ross is born 1991 and John Wall is born 1990
    Not the same age

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    Quote MACK11 wrote: View Post
    Nope Terrence Ross is born 1991 and John Wall is born 1990
    Not the same age
    Mack your a stickler for details!

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