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  • #31
    iblastoff wrote: View Post
    statistically, players right after their contract year play WORSE. we will see how lowry pans out.

    meanwhile, i'm sure all the wizards players (oh wait, according to yabalobabolo only 1 single wizards player is allowed to internally grow apparently!) are just sitting on their asses so of course its only raptors that are internally improving.
    The contract year thing should also apply to gortat as we'll...

    And I didn't say that -_- you just twisted my words doode. I suggest you reread my points...
    I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

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    • #32
      Couple points/my pov:

      a) Lebron will take Cleveland to top 3, he's that good. Kyrie is one of the best scoring PGs in the league but the reason Cleveland sucked last year is because he's not a leader. Cleveland struggled with locker room issues all year long because they lacked veteran presence. Sure they brought in Deng late into the season, but it's deng. He's a good player, but he's not good to the point where he can come into a situation and take it over. LBJ will bring stability and leadership to Cavs and everyone will be on the same page. He's shown he can lead a team as well as make his teammates better on the court.

      b) Chicago was 3rd last year without Deng or Rose. Gasol may not be in his prime anymore but he still averaged 17 and 10 on a broken down lakers team last year. Gasol is better and bigger than boozer and him and Noah are 2 of the best passing bigmen in the league. And you add in a healthy Rose (assumption), no reason why they wouldn't get within top 3 this year.

      c) Wizards is hard to gauage but wall and beal are arguably the best backcourt in the east. Beal was great during the playoffs and showed why he was a top pick. Wall is possibly the best pg in the east (toss up between him and lowry). Sure they lost a bit of d with ariza, but porter is a good defender. Even if you say porter's performance in SL means nothing, he at least is a good defender. I don't get why everyone underestimates Paul Pierce every year. Sure he's old, but he still makes big plays and hits diggers. His exp will do the wiz good as well.

      d) What's everyone's thoughts about hornets? No ones really mentioned them here. I don't think they're a top seeded team, but adding lance makes them a playoff contender. They had oen of the best defences in the east last year, and al jef is still a beast.

      Comment


      • #33
        GLF wrote: View Post
        It's extremely clear that our first round exit has made iblastoff VERY conscious about our team. The way he has been acting this offseason is like a complete 180 from the guy that was posting on this forum during the season. The reason why i'm probably not so negative this offseason is because I never expected us to win that series against the Nets so when they lost I wasn't as hurt as some. I was actually very impressed. A lot of our guys played better than I expected. iblastoff really thought we would win so now that we lost he has lowered his expectations a lot. Can't blame him though. I know how much experience is key in the playoffs and that's why I always expected Brooklyn to pull it out. Regular season stats don't mean much when your team is extremely young and inexperienced.

        Anyway I think Washington and us are on the same level. We won't know who is officially better until the season gets started. Both teams depend on the development of two keys players to take them over the edge. In Washington's case it's Beal and Wall. In our case it's JV and Ross. The only thing is I think we have two other guys that can still make improvements in DD and 2Patt whereas Washington only has one in Porter and he hasn't proven or shown anything other than in this years summer league. And you normally take that with a grain of salt. Time will tell. I won't sit here and say Raps are for sure better than Washington but I also won't say Washington is for sure better than us either.
        My expectations for this team really has nothing to do with how they did in the playoffs. I think overall we played relatively poorly and never said we would actually win the series. but unlike you, I definitely thought it was POSSIBLE to beat the nets.

        It's just a little weird to see some people expectations for next season. The east has been jumbled up for sure but overall, teams got stronger. I think it's a little presumptuous to think we can easily win #1 seed or saying things like "#3 seed! anything else is considered a failure".

        We haven't done a single thing yet to garner any crazy expectations and I think both Casey and Masai would agree with that.

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        • #34
          iblastoff wrote: View Post
          My expectations for this team really has nothing to do with how they did in the playoffs. I think overall we played relatively poorly and never said we would actually win the series. but unlike you, I definitely thought it was POSSIBLE to beat the nets.

          It's just a little weird to see some people expectations for next season. The east has been jumbled up for sure but overall, teams got stronger. I think it's a little presumptuous to think we can easily win #1 seed or saying things like "#3 seed! anything else is considered a failure".

          We haven't done a single thing yet to garner any crazy expectations and I think both Casey and Masai would agree with that.

          Oh no I agree completely. Some people are acting crazy with thinking we are for sure the number one seed or even the third seed. Teams have improved and the East is slightly better this year. The only thing I would say we are for sure is a top 4 team just because I don't see us not winning the Atlantic Division. To me if we lose that it would be a bit of a failure because to me we are definitely better than Brooklyn or the Knicks. But as you said anything can happen. Maybe Brook Lopez does make a huge difference and maybe New York finds a way to be at least a middle of the pack defensive team. Who knows. Where would you rank us btw? I just feel just like I or anyone else can't say we are for sure a top 3 team I don't think you can go around saying Washington is for sure better than us. We have just as much of a shot at being better than Washington as Washington has being better than us in my eyes.
          I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

          Comment


          • #35
            Pong wrote: View Post
            Couple points/my pov:

            a) Lebron will take Cleveland to top 3, he's that good. Kyrie is one of the best scoring PGs in the league but the reason Cleveland sucked last year is because he's not a leader. Cleveland struggled with locker room issues all year long because they lacked veteran presence. Sure they brought in Deng late into the season, but it's deng. He's a good player, but he's not good to the point where he can come into a situation and take it over. LBJ will bring stability and leadership to Cavs and everyone will be on the same page. He's shown he can lead a team as well as make his teammates better on the court.

            b) Chicago was 3rd last year without Deng or Rose. Gasol may not be in his prime anymore but he still averaged 17 and 10 on a broken down lakers team last year. Gasol is better and bigger than boozer and him and Noah are 2 of the best passing bigmen in the league. And you add in a healthy Rose (assumption), no reason why they wouldn't get within top 3 this year.

            c) Wizards is hard to gauage but wall and beal are arguably the best backcourt in the east. Beal was great during the playoffs and showed why he was a top pick. Wall is possibly the best pg in the east (toss up between him and lowry). Sure they lost a bit of d with ariza, but porter is a good defender. Even if you say porter's performance in SL means nothing, he at least is a good defender. I don't get why everyone underestimates Paul Pierce every year. Sure he's old, but he still makes big plays and hits diggers. His exp will do the wiz good as well.

            d) What's everyone's thoughts about hornets? No ones really mentioned them here. I don't think they're a top seeded team, but adding lance makes them a playoff contender. They had oen of the best defences in the east last year, and al jef is still a beast.
            I agree. Basically the East is going to see a lot more parity this year, which means more competition for everybody, including the Raps.

            The Pacers had a weird year but the loss of Stephenson and the blown trade for Scola have taken them down a notch (weird inexplicable terrible play issues aside). Miami is obviously off its perch. Cleveland is a playoff team, Boston wants a better roster, Detroit is trying damn hard to be better, the Bulls are competition for the Raps even if Rose injures himself in the first week of the season, while Charlotte, Toronto, and Washington all reasonably expect to continue to improve with internal growth. The Nets and Knicks will both be pushing for the playoffs, too, and there's still the Hawks.

            That's a lot more competition than the last couple seasons, when a good 6 or 7 Eastern teams were tearing apart rosters and angling for high draft picks. I think only the Bucks and Sixers are still in that mode.

            The Raps finished 3rd last year, but they had great health and only finished 5 games ahead of the 7th seed. The gap wasn't that wide.

            I'm expecting the Raps to be better, but depending how injury luck and a few big trades go, Toronto could finish anywhere 3rd-7th and I wouldn't be too surprised.
            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

            Comment


            • #36
              S.R. wrote: View Post
              I agree. Basically the East is going to see a lot more parity this year, which means more competition for everybody, including the Raps.

              The Pacers had a weird year but the loss of Stephenson and the blown trade for Scola have taken them down a notch (weird inexplicable terrible play issues aside). Miami is obviously off its perch. Cleveland is a playoff team, Boston wants a better roster, Detroit is trying damn hard to be better, the Bulls are competition for the Raps even if Rose injures himself in the first week of the season, while Charlotte, Toronto, and Washington all reasonably expect to continue to improve with internal growth. The Nets and Knicks will both be pushing for the playoffs, too, and there's still the Hawks.

              That's a lot more competition than the last couple seasons, when a good 6 or 7 Eastern teams were tearing apart rosters and angling for high draft picks. I think only the Bucks and Sixers are still in that mode.

              The Raps finished 3rd last year, but they had great health and only finished 5 games ahead of the 7th seed. The gap wasn't that wide.

              I'm expecting the Raps to be better, but depending how injury luck and a few big trades go, Toronto could finish anywhere 3rd-7th and I wouldn't be too surprised.
              Cavs are projected to win 40 games with LeBron. Not saying LeBron isn't good but that the Cavs are that bad. Replace Deng and Hawes and add Miller, James Johnson and LeBron = 40 wins. Adding an improved Bennett doesn't help much since LeBron plays his position SF/PF. Love helps but they aren't an elite team with him either

              Indy without a Lance might be better. He was a selfish player looking for a contract. Indy are still the favorites to win the conference.

              Rose in the 10 games before the injury looked bad. After another injury , he is at least one season away from even being good. Gasol is a great passing Center but on the Bulls he has no one to pass to. Rose + Butler + McDermott/MDJ + Gasol/Gibson/Mirotic + Noah isn't great. They'll likely finish 2-4 but aren't a great team.

              Wizards with PP , Nene , Hump , Blair and Gortat with Wall, Beal and Porter are a half court front with a running backcourt. In a half court Wall + Beal are useless and in transition their Front is useless except PP as the trailer.

              Like Charlotte as passing Wizards eventually. Lance on the Hornets works better than on the Pacers and they have actual youth.

              Hawks with Horford back will be good.

              Comment


              • #37
                raptors999 wrote: View Post
                Cavs are projected to win 40 games with LeBron. Not saying LeBron isn't good but that the Cavs are that bad. Replace Deng and Hawes and add Miller, James Johnson and LeBron = 40 wins. Adding an improved Bennett doesn't help much since LeBron plays his position SF/PF. Love helps but they aren't an elite team with him either

                Indy without a Lance might be better. He was a selfish player looking for a contract. Indy are still the favorites to win the conference.

                Rose in the 10 games before the injury looked bad. After another injury , he is at least one season away from even being good. Gasol is a great passing Center but on the Bulls he has no one to pass to. Rose + Butler + McDermott/MDJ + Gasol/Gibson/Mirotic + Noah isn't great. They'll likely finish 2-4 but aren't a great team.

                Wizards with PP , Nene , Hump , Blair and Gortat with Wall, Beal and Porter are a half court front with a running backcourt. In a half court Wall + Beal are useless and in transition their Front is useless except PP as the trailer.

                Like Charlotte as passing Wizards eventually. Lance on the Hornets works better than on the Pacers and they have actual youth.

                Hawks with Horford back will be good.
                Rookie Lebron James took the Cavs from 17 wins to 35. His last year with the Cavs they won 61 games, then 19 the following season without him. They were a 33 win team last year and they've added Andrew Wiggins (or Kevin Love) and Lebron James. James only missed the playoffs his first two years in the League. I think it's a pretty safe bet the Cavs are about to jump to 45-50 wins, at minimum.
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                Comment


                • #38
                  S.R. wrote: View Post
                  Rookie Lebron James took the Cavs from 17 wins to 35. His last year with the Cavs they won 61 games, then 19 the following season without him. They were a 33 win team last year and they've added Andrew Wiggins (or Kevin Love) and Lebron James. James only missed the playoffs his first two years in the League. I think it's a pretty safe bet the Cavs are about to jump to 45-50 wins, at minimum.
                  yes, anyone using exclusively LBJ's WS to justify win totals is actually using that stat wrong.

                  WS consistently overvalues 2nd, 3rd options, etc. so putting LBJ on the squad will actually increase everyone else's WS too
                  "Bruno?
                  Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                  He's terrible."

                  -Superjudge, 7/23

                  Hope you're wrong.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    raptors999 wrote: View Post
                    Cavs are projected to win 40 games with LeBron.
                    Please find me the site that has that bet, I've always wanted to pay back my student debt all in one shot.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Letter N wrote: View Post
                      Please find me the site that has that bet, I've always wanted to pay back my student debt all in one shot.
                      lol, yeah. i could make a lot of money on that
                      "Bruno?
                      Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                      He's terrible."

                      -Superjudge, 7/23

                      Hope you're wrong.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        A worse version of Lebron took worse versions of the Cavs to multiple 60 win seasons. There's just no way they finish 40-42 next season unless there's a string of catastrophic injuries.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          raptors999 wrote: View Post
                          Cavs are projected to win 40 games with LeBron. Not saying LeBron isn't good but that the Cavs are that bad. Replace Deng and Hawes and add Miller, James Johnson and LeBron = 40 wins. Adding an improved Bennett doesn't help much since LeBron plays his position SF/PF. Love helps but they aren't an elite team with him either

                          Indy without a Lance might be better. He was a selfish player looking for a contract. Indy are still the favorites to win the conference.

                          Rose in the 10 games before the injury looked bad. After another injury , he is at least one season away from even being good. Gasol is a great passing Center but on the Bulls he has no one to pass to. Rose + Butler + McDermott/MDJ + Gasol/Gibson/Mirotic + Noah isn't great. They'll likely finish 2-4 but aren't a great team.

                          Wizards with PP , Nene , Hump , Blair and Gortat with Wall, Beal and Porter are a half court front with a running backcourt. In a half court Wall + Beal are useless and in transition their Front is useless except PP as the trailer.

                          Like Charlotte as passing Wizards eventually. Lance on the Hornets works better than on the Pacers and they have actual youth.

                          Hawks with Horford back will be good.
                          First off, just 10 games at the start of the season means nothing. Many perfectly healthy players take time to get ramped up into the season. Rose hasn't played a game all year and the main issue was he just wasn't in sync with his team yet. He still showed the same aggressiveness and explosiveness he had pre injury. If he remained healthy last year, they definitely would have clicked by mid season. Chicago was one of the worse offensive teams last year without rose and later, deng. But they got to where they were with defence alone. I don't see how adding a healthy Rose and replacing boozer with Gasol doesn't significantly improve that team.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I have the East tiered like this:

                            1-2:
                            Chicago
                            Cleveland

                            3-6 (in no order):
                            Toronto
                            Washington
                            Indiana
                            Miami

                            Competing for last 2 playoff spots:
                            Charlotte
                            Atlanta
                            Brooklyn
                            New York
                            Detroit

                            Won't be in the playoff race:
                            Boston
                            Philly
                            Orlando
                            Milwaukee

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Fully wrote: View Post
                              I have the East tiered like this:

                              1-2:
                              Chicago
                              Cleveland

                              3-6 (in no order):
                              Toronto
                              Washington
                              Indiana
                              Miami

                              Competing for last 2 playoff spots:
                              Charlotte
                              Atlanta
                              Brooklyn
                              New York
                              Detroit

                              Won't be in the playoff race:
                              Boston
                              Philly
                              Orlando
                              Milwaukee
                              I completely agree except for Miami.

                              They're starting Chalmers, Wade, Deng, Bosh, Anderson.

                              I think they lack shooting with that starting five, and their bench absolutely blows. McRoberts is good. Granger is terrible, and pretty much everyone else is terrible too.

                              and is wade going to rest every second game again? will he look even older than last year?

                              do they have the personnel to change their defensive schemes? cuz they definitely don't have the personnel to play the athletic trapping defense anymore.

                              edit: oh and who's going to be creating shots now? lebron was their de facto ball handler, and i'm not sure i'd trust chalmers with that job.

                              they don't have a pg, they don't have a C, and their SG only plays every couple games.

                              i think they're in the lower tier, and i'd consider moving one of charlotte or atlanta (probably atlanta) into the second tier
                              Last edited by stooley; Wed Jul 30, 2014, 02:22 PM.
                              "Bruno?
                              Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                              He's terrible."

                              -Superjudge, 7/23

                              Hope you're wrong.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Pong wrote: View Post
                                First off, just 10 games at the start of the season means nothing. Many perfectly healthy players take time to get ramped up into the season. Rose hasn't played a game all year and the main issue was he just wasn't in sync with his team yet. He still showed the same aggressiveness and explosiveness he had pre injury. If he remained healthy last year, they definitely would have clicked by mid season. Chicago was one of the worse offensive teams last year without rose and later, deng. But they got to where they were with defence alone. I don't see how adding a healthy Rose and replacing boozer with Gasol doesn't significantly improve that team.
                                Players take a season to come back from knee problems and that is on offenses that have some balance. Rose was a heavy unassisted point scorer pre-injury, expecting something close is going to be tough.

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