Why do Raptors fans think we are better than Wizards and Hornets?

[planetmars]

Pierce is a really good player.. talent-wise much better than Ariza. So Washington may have improved. What Ariza brought was defense (they were 8th best last year). Losing him could hurt.. but with Pierce they might gain some offense.. and they were only ranked 17th last year. They also got to the second round of the playoffs. That's better experience then the Raptors core got last year. I can't really say who's better.. I'd like to watch a 7 games series as I do think the Refs would put away their whistles for those games. But from a standings point of view Toronto just has to win the division to get home court in the first round. Washington has to actually earn it and that's much more difficult as there appears to be more parity in the EC.

The Hornets have always been a challenge to the Raptors but to the league they are a middling team. Can win some games, but will lose some games too. AJ is a really good player but he needs to be healthy. If they lose him for any amount of time they will be screwed. I guess that would be a kin to the Raptors losing Lowry. Lance wanted to get paid.. he had a guy like Bird keeping him in check. Hopefully Jordan will be able to do the same in Charlotte... but he's a nut ball. And a nut ball like Lance could mess up chemistry. We'll see how that plays out. I'm looking forward to seeing a Hornet/Raptor game. Would really like to see how JV does against AJ. I don't think Charlotte is better then Toronto. I think they match up well against them but when facing every other team I think Toronto will win more games then Charlotte would.

[afrocarter]

Do you think we are a 5th-6th seed at best?
As time goes on and young teams develop and we lose ground, is it worth it to stay a middling, treading team?

Barring a New York miracle, we'll be at least a 4 seed. And why doesn't your "young teams develop" statement include the Raptors (who have a younger team than the Wizards, btw)?

I will concede that we'll probably be neck-and-neck with Washington all season -- they may even end up with a better record than us, they're going to be that good. But Charlotte? They'll be above .500, no question, but I don't see them competing with the Raptors in a 7-game series.

[iblastoff]

Barring a New York miracle, we'll be at least a 4 seed. And why doesn't your "young teams develop" statement include the Raptors (who have a younger team than the Wizards, btw)?

I will concede that we'll probably be neck-and-neck with Washington all season -- they may even end up with a better record than us, they're going to be that good. But Charlotte? They'll be above .500, no question, but I don't see them competing with the Raptors in a 7-game series.

charlotte? we didnt even win a single game against them last year.

[Hotshot]

Because most Raptor fans think they are experts and if you don't agree with them that the product isn't as good as they think it is then STFU hater.

[GLF]

charlotte? we didnt even win a single game against them last year.

Our team particularly doesn't match up well with Charlotte but that doesn't mean we won't be better than them overall. You love Washington so much and they only beat us once and that was a triple overtime game. So with that logic Washington has no chance against us. Some teams just have other teams number. Doesn't mean they are better or worse than the other though

[raptors999]

Our team particularly doesn't match up well with Charlotte but that doesn't mean we won't be better than them overall. You love Washington so much and they only beat us once and that was a triple overtime game. So with that logic Washington has no chance against us. Some teams just have other teams number. Doesn't mean they are better or worse than the other though

Charlotte was a scheduling issue. Two games were before the Gay trade with the one being after Gay, Acy and Gray left but before the Kings players arrived and they lost on the Walker buzzer beater. The final game Casey didn't use Hayes on Jefferson until late and the Raptors overcame a 30pt deficit to make it close. Raptors really owned the Wizards winning comfortably 3 times before the 3OT game.

[iblastoff]

Our team particularly doesn't match up well with Charlotte but that doesn't mean we won't be better than them overall. You love Washington so much and they only beat us once and that was a triple overtime game. So with that logic Washington has no chance against us. Some teams just have other teams number. Doesn't mean they are better or worse than the other though

i responded to someone talking about a 7 game series. nothing about who would be better overall.

no idea what you're talking about washington either. never said washington was better than us. just saying theres no obvious way to tell who is better, especially with revamped rosters for both teams.

[Bonus Jonas]

The Washington argument makes zero sense.

First of all, last year:

We had a better record.
We had a 3-1 record against them and the only loss was a triple overtime game where Ross got injured in the second quarter and Lowry, Amir and PPat all fouled out.
They lucked out in the playoffs and played a team that averaged 90 points per game. If you don't win 4 out of 7 then you shouldn't be in the playoffs.
They lost against an Indiana team that was lost.

So clearly, we were the better team last year.

This offseason, they replaced Ariza with Pierce and added Humphries and Blair.

Humphries and Blair can be countered by the signings/trade of Lou Will and James Johnson. Calling that even is fair.

Now Pierce. Defensively, it's a given that Ariza is light years ahead of Pierce. Offensively, Pierce will be playing the three, while playing the three last season, Pierce averaged 12.5 points, Ariza averaged 14.4. So if you're hoping Pierce will make Washington so much better offensively that he makes up for his defensive deficiencies then I have some bad news for you.

Internal growth? First of all, we're a younger team, but let's not even take that into account because it's a little skewed because of Bruno. So let's just take the guys likely to have growth. Age when the season starts in brackets.

Toronto:
Demar Derozan (25)
Terrence Ross (23)
Jonas Valanciunas (22)
Patrick Patterson(25)

Washington:
Bradley Beal (21)
John Wall (24)

The odds of Bradley Beal having a breakout season are equal to the odds of Jonas Valanciunas having a breakout season. Wall's growth will not be more than Patterson, Ross and Derozan combined.

Maybe you're counting on Lowry not producing after a contract year? Ahem Marcin Gortat.

But what about Vasquez and Patterson??

OH and let's not forget Otto Porter. You got me. Washington will be better than Toronto because of some guy that's never done anything noteworthy in an NBA game but put up good numbers at summer league. It's too bad Dwight Buycks isn't on our team anymore. If your hope is on Otto Porter, then I'm gonna go ahead and say Bruno and Bebe will both be factors and show that Toronto's better.

TL;DR: The raps are better than the wiz in every single way possible.

[Hotshot]

Its a sad state of affairs that we have to make posts arguing if we are better or not then 2 teams (who have no shot at making the NBA finals) while the Cav's are laughing all the way to the bank.

[2kfeen]

This thread is honestly full of a lot of bs tbh sorry to say

I asked which teams were better, meaning who would in a playoff series, and I just finishing reading a page of arguing about who will have the better record, which will probably be us b/c of the weak Atlantic Division

When I said younger teams will come up in a few years, I was saying that teams like Boston, Philly, Bucks will prosper. This is in addition to Cavs, Washington, Knicks (who will probably sign players to play in NY with Melo). This will make it harder for us to win in the future, so we should be win now.

You guys bring up a good point about Pierce at the 3 spot as a declining player, but what really got us down last year was these 3s that can masquerade as 4s, like Pierce. James Johnson is great, but he's a big x factor. You guys are really dismissing Porter, a top 3 talent who is prime for breakout. Pierce could provide that leadership idk


You cant compare the growth of 2 young all star caliber players with a bench stretch four, who has been traded away already (twice?) in his career, and is injury prone, a big man who will take time to develop. John Wall just has to add a jumpshot and he is a top 5 PG in this league.

[raptors999]

This thread is honestly full of a lot of bs tbh sorry to say

I asked which teams were better, meaning who would in a playoff series, and I just finishing reading a page of arguing about who will have the better record, which will probably be us b/c of the weak Atlantic Division

When I said younger teams will come up in a few years, I was saying that teams like Boston, Philly, Bucks will prosper. This is in addition to Cavs, Washington, Knicks (who will probably sign players to play in NY with Melo). This will make it harder for us to win in the future, so we should be win now.

You guys bring up a good point about Pierce at the 3 spot as a declining player, but what really got us down last year was these 3s that can masquerade as 4s, like Pierce. James Johnson is great, but he's a big x factor. You guys are really dismissing Porter, a top 3 talent who is prime for breakout. Pierce could provide that leadership idk


You cant compare the growth of 2 young all star caliber players with a bench stretch four, who has been traded away already (twice?) in his career, and is injury prone, a big man who will take time to develop. John Wall just has to add a jumpshot and he is a top 5 PG in this league.

Celtic and Minnesota are waiting on that jump shot too. Pierce caused no problems, two post up guards Livingston and Joe Johnson caused issues. Against Washington TRoss, Demar, Vasquez really bother the Wizards guards. Otto Porter is a rookie considering his injury last season and will be a non-factor, especially in the playoffs.

[stooley]

This thread is honestly full of a lot of bs tbh sorry to say

I asked which teams were better, meaning who would in a playoff series, and I just finishing reading a page of arguing about who will have the better record, which will probably be us b/c of the weak Atlantic Division

how many times do I have to say that this has virtually no effect?

about some of your other points:

We have two young all star caliber players as well in Demar and Jonas. We also have Terrence Ross who's shown the ability to play in the NBA. Plus we have Bebe and Bruno, who, in my books, count for just as much as Porter. Bebe was defensive player of the year in Spain last year, which is a tougher league than the NCAA.

Our time isn't to win now, you don't make that decision based on the conference, look how that worked out for the Jays. We have an internal clock and trying to speed things up just mucks the whole team building up.

I have no idea who would win in a 7 game series, but you seem way too pessimistic about the raptors.

[Bonus Jonas]

[QUOTE=2kfeen;361711...top 3 talent...[/QUOTE]

Top 3 pick does not equal top 3 talent.

Pretty sure Darko isn't considered too 3 talent.

[MACK11]

This thread is honestly full of a lot of bs tbh sorry to say

I asked which teams were better, meaning who would in a playoff series, and I just finishing reading a page of arguing about who will have the better record, which will probably be us b/c of the weak Atlantic Division

When I said younger teams will come up in a few years, I was saying that teams like Boston, Philly, Bucks will prosper. This is in addition to Cavs, Washington, Knicks (who will probably sign players to play in NY with Melo). This will make it harder for us to win in the future, so we should be win now.

You guys bring up a good point about Pierce at the 3 spot as a declining player, but what really got us down last year was these 3s that can masquerade as 4s, like Pierce. James Johnson is great, but he's a big x factor. You guys are really dismissing Porter, a top 3 talent who is prime for breakout. Pierce could provide that leadership idk


You cant compare the growth of 2 young all star caliber players with a bench stretch four, who has been traded away already (twice?) in his career, and is injury prone, a big man who will take time to develop. John Wall just has to add a jumpshot and he is a top 5 PG in this league.

How is Porter primed for a breakout?
He was atrocious last year and now just because he played well in the summer league he's gonna be some great player?

You remember Dwight Buycks? Anthony Randolph? Those guys killed the summer league and never did anything in the NBA! So saying Porter is gonna do anything this season because he played well against a bunch of scrubs is flat out wrong!

[BigCamB]

]This thread is honestly full of a lot of bs tbh sorry to say[/B]

I asked which teams were better, meaning who would in a playoff series, and I just finishing reading a page of arguing about who will have the better record, which will probably be us b/c of the weak Atlantic Division

When I said younger teams will come up in a few years, I was saying that teams like Boston, Philly, Bucks will prosper. This is in addition to Cavs, Washington, Knicks (who will probably sign players to play in NY with Melo). This will make it harder for us to win in the future, so we should be win now.

You guys bring up a good point about Pierce at the 3 spot as a declining player, but what really got us down last year was these 3s that can masquerade as 4s, like Pierce. James Johnson is great, but he's a big x factor. You guys are really dismissing Porter, a top 3 talent who is prime for breakout. Pierce could provide that leadership idk


You cant compare the growth of 2 young all star caliber players with a bench stretch four, who has been traded away already (twice?) in his career, and is injury prone, a big man who will take time to develop. John Wall just has to add a jumpshot and he is a top 5 PG in this league.

What makes your overly negative opinions any less bullshit? Most people think Washington will be a threat, myself included. I can't really look at their roster and say that they will clearly be better than the raptors though. There is a lot of upside in the raptors. They really are not built to win now. You quickly mention the " bench stretch 4", and JV, yet forget to mention Ross, who has even more upside than JV IMO , although who knows how close he will get to it.

Otto Porter was a " top 3 talent" in possibly the worst draft ever, and even then, he wasn't a top 3 talent, he was a rather low upside and supposedly safe pick. I think he was compared as a best case scenario to Tayshaun prince, but he doesn't move nearly as well as Tayshaun did in his prime. Josh Selby demolished the summer league two or three years ago, last time I heard he was playing in China.

The raptors are better on paper than Charlotte.