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Thread: Bosh or Wade?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie Babyface_killah's Avatar
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    Default Bosh or Wade?

    I don't mean whose the better player or the player you would rather build around. I mean who in 6 years (when their current Max deal would finish) would be better. Basically who is the safer player to give the Max to (they both will still get it and the extra 30 mill).

    Wade is already 28 and has already had multiple knee problems (not great for a guy who relies on athleticism as much he does). With all the bumps and brusies Wade has acquired through his reckless playing style and you add that to the amount of mileage in his career (Olympics and Playoffs). I'm not saying Wade will completely fall apart half-way through his new Max contract but he could regress enough to where his contract could burden a team.

    Bosh is not only 2 years younger than Wade, also usually SG's dont outlast PF career unless they completely devout themselves to taking care of their body (see Bryant, Kobe). Plus Bosh is a finesse PF and that would probably cause CB's NBA lifespan to increase.

    Also you have to account for the up-coming CBA coming and how it will tighten up the NBA salary cap, basically not allowing teams to build super teams anymore. Again this is not a slight against D-Wade or anything but how Bosh could be the better sign than Wade this off-season.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Babyface_killah wrote: View Post
    I don't mean whose the better player or the player you would rather build around. I mean who in 6 years (when their current Max deal would finish) would be better. Basically who is the safer player to give the Max to (they both will still get it and the extra 30 mill).

    Wade is already 28 and has already had multiple knee problems (not great for a guy who relies on athleticism as much he does). With all the bumps and brusies Wade has acquired through his reckless playing style and you add that to the amount of mileage in his career (Olympics and Playoffs). I'm not saying Wade will completely fall apart half-way through his new Max contract but he could regress enough to where his contract could burden a team.

    Bosh is not only 2 years younger than Wade, also usually SG's dont outlast PF career unless they completely devout themselves to taking care of their body (see Bryant, Kobe). Plus Bosh is a finesse PF and that would probably cause CB's NBA lifespan to increase.

    Also you have to account for the up-coming CBA coming and how it will tighten up the NBA salary cap, basically not allowing teams to build super teams anymore. Again this is not a slight against D-Wade or anything but how Bosh could be the better sign than Wade this off-season.
    Players need not worry about the upcoming CBA hurting them financially. By the time the Obama administration gets done with it and they will get involved, it will very union friendly. You betcha'

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    you guys blabber to much about the financial aspects of the game, i just want a freakin guy who can lead his team past the first round and who's done that?

    ya, that's what i thought.

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    Raptors Republic Starter DarkKnight's Avatar
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    That's just a silly question. Of course Wade. The guy is up there with LeBron, Kobe, and Melo. "True" franchise player if you will - can take the game over by himself.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Babyface_killah's Avatar
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    Quote DarkKnight wrote: View Post
    That's just a silly question. Of course Wade. The guy is up there with LeBron, Kobe, and Melo. "True" franchise player if you will - can take the game over by himself.
    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    you guys blabber to much about the financial aspects of the game, i just want a freakin guy who can lead his team past the first round and who's done that?

    ya, that's what i thought.
    I don't think you guys understand my question, I meant who is the better investment for 6 years. Wade is top 3 player and IMO the only player than Kobe I would give the ball to at the end of game, BUT he is 28 and has serious knee problems, add that to his reckless style and that equals uncertain future into his 30s

    Just put away your preconceived notions of Bosh and just look at through the business side. I would be scared that Wade could regress and be burden for my teams cap flexibility.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Players need not worry about the upcoming CBA hurting them financially. By the time the Obama administration gets done with it and they will get involved, it will very union friendly. You betcha'
    Obama has created a deficit that will never be paid off(Think $57 trillion). He has created more deficit in a year than the entire American history prior combined. He's screwed the American people over with the banker bail outs and what he's doing with health care reform is unconstitutional. If he somehow manages to get reelected(hello, new war? Iran maybe?) then things are not going to look much better long term. By the time the Obama administration gets done the American currency won't be the world reserve currency is more like it. Unemployment is through the roof and he lied about what he was going to do about the war. He lied about transparency, everything of significance is late hour backdoor dealing. I haven't even rolled up my sleeves yet in talking about what's wrong with the Obama administration but I'll leave it there. The players are going to get hosed compared to what they're currently getting and its going to stay like that for some time because people who don't have jobs don't go to basketball games or buy NBA trinkets. People forced to take pay cuts or reduced hours don't either. Just wait a little longer, we might see hyper inflation in the U.S. before its all said and done. Watch out then. I mean they're printing paper money like its going out of style. Paper not backed by gold, paper backed by paper.

    Wade gets my vote. He's going to have to change the way he plays soon though if he wants to have a long career. He can't go sacrificing his body like that if he wants to make it through six more years.
    Last edited by Apollo; Sat Mar 27th, 2010 at 04:01 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Its a tough call.

    As it stands right now, Wade is better then Bosh, gets more respect then Bosh and Wade is actually a max worthy player.

    I think Wade has another 2-3 really good seasons in him, and Bosh probably has 3-4.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Obama has created a deficit that will never be paid off(Think $57 trillion).

    Whoa there Apollo. That was a tad harsh wasnt it? You are not a card carrying member of the Tea Party are you?

    Lets try and get some facts straight shall we... as well as recent history including the incredible idiocy and contributions made by the previous administration to world peace and the economy.

    I realize this is a sports forum but your comments here, I believe, needed rebuttal. My apologies to readers of the thread.

    "Obama has created a deficit that will never be paid off(Think $57 trillion)."

    57 trill.? Huh? Source? Current deficit is $12.6 trill. (www.federalbudget.com). Here is an excerpt to digest..."When Bush took office, the national debt was $5.73 trillion. When he left, it was $10.7 trillion. That's a difference of $4.97 trillion..."

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...bt-under-bush/

    While the deficit/national debt has of course risen under Obama...a couple of wars (started under Bush), bail out of the banks (under Bush), the economic melt down (under Bush) and a cumulative tax break policy (under Bush)...will kinda do that to a deficit. Obama's timing was bad...getting elected in 2008. And all he did to raise the deficit was institute a historical necessity for his country where healthcare is considered a right (as in this country) not an option affordable only by some.

    "He has created more deficit in a year than the entire American history prior combined."

    Where are you getting this stuff? See above and please refute with a substantive link.

    "He's screwed the American people over with the banker bail outs and what he's doing with health care reform is unconstitutional."

    Banker bailouts began under a republican/conservative (Bush) administration.
    I thought you lived in Alberta? Care to explain if you currently accept the Canadian health system's "largesse" ...and how this is compatible with your position that what is in the US health bill is somehow nefarious (as it is infinitely inferior to what we have) and unconstitutional?

    "If he somehow manages to get reelected(hello, new war? Iran maybe?) then things are not going to look much better long term."

    War with Iran? If Bush were still president there would have been one there already. Cheney and the other neocons would have made sure of it. All Obama has done so far is try mightily to avoid war.

    "By the time the Obama administration gets done the American currency won't be the world reserve currency is more like it. Unemployment is through the roof and he lied about what he was going to do about the war. He lied about transparency, everything of significance is late hour backdoor dealing."

    More rhetoric? This is headshakingly obtuse. Did you just pull this American currency prediction out of ....

    Which currency or metal do you think the world would use (in the forseeable future)? Yuan, Ruble, Euro, Rupee, Peso? The American dollar and treasury bills/bonds inspite of the latest shocks is still the overwhelming currency of choice to hold. Please dont fear... nor buy too much gold (its overpriced).
    And what did Obama lie about? I must have missed some detail. All I know is that he engaged the opposition leadership in a very public/televised q&a and from what I understand some republican proposals on health care are now included in the bill. As a matter of fact while the public option (the Canadian system) was his first choice, he dropped it much to the chagrin of many Americans on the left. Of any recent president including our own Stephen Harper, Obama has been the most transparent and respectful of the opposing viewpoint. After all he did receive a significant majority including the house & senate. What do you want him and his supporters to do? Pull down their pants and rollover? Is that what the Bush admin. did while in office?

    "I haven't even rolled up my sleeves yet in talking about what's wrong with the Obama administration but I'll leave it there."

    Obama is not your type of guy is he? Give us a clue who you would have preferred to be running the shop down there? Palin?

    Here is a small piece on the history of the US debt/deficit...
    http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...918390,00.html

    ps...I agree with your position on Wade

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Babyface_killah's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Whoa there Apollo. That was a tad harsh wasnt it? You are not a card carrying member of the Tea Party are you?

    Lets try and get some facts straight shall we... as well as recent history including the incredible idiocy and contributions made by the previous administration to world peace and the economy.

    I realize this is a sports forum but your comments here, I believe, needed rebuttal. My apologies to readers of the thread.

    "Obama has created a deficit that will never be paid off(Think $57 trillion)."

    57 trill.? Huh? Source? Current deficit is $12.6 trill. (www.federalbudget.com). Here is an excerpt to digest..."When Bush took office, the national debt was $5.73 trillion. When he left, it was $10.7 trillion. That's a difference of $4.97 trillion..."

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...bt-under-bush/

    While the deficit/national debt has of course risen under Obama...a couple of wars (started under Bush), bail out of the banks (under Bush), the economic melt down (under Bush) and a cumulative tax break policy (under Bush)...will kinda do that to a deficit. Obama's timing was bad...getting elected in 2008. And all he did to raise the deficit was institute a historical necessity for his country where healthcare is considered a right (as in this country) not an option affordable only by some.

    "He has created more deficit in a year than the entire American history prior combined."

    Where are you getting this stuff? See above and please refute with a substantive link.

    "He's screwed the American people over with the banker bail outs and what he's doing with health care reform is unconstitutional."

    Banker bailouts began under a republican/conservative (Bush) administration.
    I thought you lived in Alberta? Care to explain if you currently accept the Canadian health system's "largesse" ...and how this is compatible with your position that what is in the US health bill is somehow nefarious (as it is infinitely inferior to what we have) and unconstitutional?

    "If he somehow manages to get reelected(hello, new war? Iran maybe?) then things are not going to look much better long term."

    War with Iran? If Bush were still president there would have been one there already. Cheney and the other neocons would have made sure of it. All Obama has done so far is try mightily to avoid war.

    "By the time the Obama administration gets done the American currency won't be the world reserve currency is more like it. Unemployment is through the roof and he lied about what he was going to do about the war. He lied about transparency, everything of significance is late hour backdoor dealing."

    More rhetoric? This is headshakingly obtuse. Did you just pull this American currency prediction out of ....

    Which currency or metal do you think the world would use (in the forseeable future)? Yuan, Ruble, Euro, Rupee, Peso? The American dollar and treasury bills/bonds inspite of the latest shocks is still the overwhelming currency of choice to hold. Please dont fear... nor buy too much gold (its overpriced).
    And what did Obama lie about? I must have missed some detail. All I know is that he engaged the opposition leadership in a very public/televised q&a and from what I understand some republican proposals on health care are now included in the bill. As a matter of fact while the public option (the Canadian system) was his first choice, he dropped it much to the chagrin of many Americans on the left. Of any recent president including our own Stephen Harper, Obama has been the most transparent and respectful of the opposing viewpoint. After all he did receive a significant majority including the house & senate. What do you want him and his supporters to do? Pull down their pants and rollover? Is that what the Bush admin. did while in office?

    "I haven't even rolled up my sleeves yet in talking about what's wrong with the Obama administration but I'll leave it there."

    Obama is not your type of guy is he? Give us a clue who you would have preferred to be running the shop down there? Palin?

    Here is a small piece on the history of the US debt/deficit...
    http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...918390,00.html

    ps...I agree with your position on Wade


    To be fair to Bush (I know extremely hard) the previous administration did give too much power to the corporations and banks (handing out at mortgages to people who can never pay that off= disaster in the making). Still since the 80s with all the tax cuts and the growing change of power going to companies and to much power for people you can't elect is never a good thing.

    Again I think we are all of topic. Its Wade vs. Bosh (better investment over the 6 years).

  10. #10
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    I'd still take Wade over Bosh for the six years. Don't forget, Bosh has weak knees as well. Plus he's a big. When he loses his quickness he loses just about all he's worth since he won't be backing down opponents in the paint. And he isn't a great defensive stopper either. But i guess that won't be happening until the years after these next six. Hopefully. Still, I'd take Wade.

  11. #11
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    "Obama has created a deficit that will never be paid off(Think $57 trillion)."

    57 trill.? Huh? Source? Current deficit is $12.6 trill. (www.federalbudget.com). Here is an excerpt to digest..."When Bush took office, the national debt was $5.73 trillion. When he left, it was $10.7 trillion. That's a difference of $4.97 trillion..."
    Read...
    Year-to-date (YTD) the total overall U.S. debt is an unfathomable $57 Trillion Dollars. The average American's responsibility to retire the overall debt is a whopping $177,543.00 per individual or $679,749 per family. The interest so far this year, just the interest, on this debt is over $192 Billion.
    Accounting Suite 101



    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    "He's screwed the American people over with the banker bail outs and what he's doing with health care reform is unconstitutional."

    Banker bailouts began under a republican/conservative (Bush) administration.
    I thought you lived in Alberta? Care to explain if you currently accept the Canadian health system's "largesse" ...and how this is compatible with your position that what is in the US health bill is somehow nefarious (as it is infinitely inferior to what we have) and unconstitutional?
    Read...

    Congress cannot so simply avoid the constitutional limits on its power. Taxation can favor one industry or course of action over another, but a "tax" that falls exclusively on anyone who is uninsured is a penalty beyond Congress's authority. If the rule were otherwise, Congress could evade all constitutional limits by "taxing" anyone who doesn't follow an order of any kind—whether to obtain health-care insurance, or to join a health club, or exercise regularly, or even eat your vegetables.

    This type of congressional trickery is bad for our democracy and has implications far beyond the health-care debate. The Constitution's Framers divided power between the federal government and states—just as they did among the three federal branches of government—for a reason. They viewed these structural limitations on governmental power as the most reliable means of protecting individual liberty—more important even than the Bill of Rights.
    Since the 1930s, the Supreme Court has been reluctant to invalidate "regulatory" taxes. However, a tax that is so clearly a penalty for failing to comply with requirements otherwise beyond Congress's constitutional power will present the question whether there are any limits on Congress's power to regulate individual Americans. The Supreme Court has never accepted such a proposition, and it is unlikely to accept it now, even in an area as important as health care.
    Wallstreet Journal

    Next point of interest...
    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    "By the time the Obama administration gets done the American currency won't be the world reserve currency is more like it. Unemployment is through the roof and he lied about what he was going to do about the war. He lied about transparency, everything of significance is late hour backdoor dealing."

    More rhetoric? This is headshakingly obtuse. Did you just pull this American currency prediction out of ....
    The US dollar became the global "reserve currency" in 1944 near the end of World War II and continues as such. There have been numerous reserve currencies over the centuries, but none more widely accepted than the US dollar since 1944. While the US dollar has fluctuated widely in value over the 65 years since its designation as the reserve currency, its credibility has come under the most intense scrutiny ever in the last few years.
    With President Obama's most unprecedented spending plans in history, with trillion-dollar budget deficits as far as the eye can see, and the potential to more than double the US national debt in the next 5-10 years, there is now widespread speculation that the dollar is headed for new all-time lows and a possible collapse.

    As a result, we are seeing and hearing calls around the world to end the dollar's status as the world's reserve currency and replace it with something else.
    Investor Insight
    Consequently, the U.S. dollar is being replaced by Euro and other currencies and soon is going to be abandoned as a reserve currency in global financial system. Roberts appears to be seriously concerned: "I sometimes wonder if the bankrupt ‘superpower’ will be able to scrape together the resources to bring home the troops stationed in its hundreds of bases overseas, or whether they will just be abandoned."
    Axis of Logic
    “The U.S. economy will deteriorate into 2011 as the effects of excess consumption and the financial bubble linger,” said Daisuke Uno at Sumitomo Mitsui, a unit of Japan’s third- biggest bank. “The dollar’s fall won’t stop until there’s a change to the global currency system.”
    “We can no longer stop the big wave of dollar weakness,” said Uno, who correctly predicted the dollar would fall under 100 yen and the Dow Jones Industrial Average would sink below 7,000 after the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. last year. If the U.S. currency breaks through record levels, “there will be no downside limit, and even coordinated intervention won’t work,” he said.
    Uno said after the dollar loses its reserve currency status, the U.S., Europe and Asia will form separate economic blocs. The International Monetary Fund’s special drawing rights may be used as a temporary measure, and global currency trading will shrink in the long run, he said.
    Bloomber.com

    Hey white liar...
    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    And what did Obama lie about?
    Obama's Documented Lies: 158 and remarkably still growing

    # 158 Obama claims he wrote letter to US Treasurer to try to prevent the housing crisis; but he acted only AFTER he had caused it by blocking McCain's bill
    # 157 Obama claims he is bipartisan ; Congressional Quarterly shows he voted with his party 97% of the time
    # 156 Obama's dirty lie scares seniors: falsely claims McCain plans to cut $880 billion from Medicare: liar liar liar says Annenberg Factcheck
    # 155 Obama lies about his mother turning to food stamps AND still sending him to top schools; his grandmother paid for education
    # 154 Obama lied about being asked to wear dead soldier's bracelet: family had asked Obama to stop wearing it
    # 153 Obama claimed all new spending is economic plan was self-funding; short by $3.5 Trillion says nonpartisan Tax Policy Center
    # 152 Obama denied Admiral Mike Mullen had called Obama's Iraqi troop plan "dangerous"; Mullen made comment on Fox in July 2008 according to WaPo
    # 151 Obama lied about Kissinger's views of diplomacy during first debate; Kissinger confirms the lie
    # 150 During Debate 1 Obama denied voting to tax some people making $42000 a year: Annenburg Factcheck,org confirms Obama is lying
    # 149 After Debate 1, Team Obama denied Obama ever said, "Iran's not a threat": Video proves Obama DID say "Iran is NOT a threat."
    # 148 Obama claims under McCain employers would be taxed on the health care benefits it grants to workers; he's lying
    # 147 Obama refers to an Iraqi surplus of $79 billion and says US should have it; its $60 billion and dwindling
    # 146 Obama claims only 5% of Americans would see tax increase; he's grossly understating the number of people effected
    # 145 Obama accuses McCain of lying about Biden being against clean coal; video proves Obama is lying
    # 144 Obama claims McCain is opposed to abortion in cases of rape or incest; McCain has never held that position.
    # 143 Obama accuses McCain of making an ad about Obama's vote to approve leaving babies who survive abortion procedures to die; McCain did not make the ad
    # 142 Obama's ad on abortion claims BHO always supported medical care to protect infants; text of the Bill he supported shows he wanted babies born alive after abortions to be left to die
    # 141 Obama's ad on abortion uses quotes by journalists who made negative comments about a McCain ad; but Obama is misleading because both journalists have been proven to be incorrect
    # 140 Obama's lying when he says McCain's ad misstated BHO's Sex Ed for Kindergartners Bill: McCain's ad was accurate; here's the Sex Ed Bill text
    # 139 Obama and Biden both truncate McCain's comments on the strength of the economy's fundamentals: deliberate distortion
    # 138 Biden claims McCain tried to hurt our veterans by denying them educational benefits; NewsWeek confirms Biden is lying
    # 137 Obama claims under McCain, Elderly would have had Social Security tied up in the Stock market; Newsweek cries BS
    # 136 Obama claims his opponent will cut social security in half: NOT true; Obama guilty of scare-mongering aimed at Seniors
    # 135 Biden claims McCain wouldn't help small borrowers hurt by housing crisis; this is untrue according to Newsweek
    # 134 Obama claimed during the primary he had more Ex President Clinton Foreign Policy advisers than Sen. Clinton; she had 70% more
    # 133 Obama claimed his father served in World War 2: his Kenyan-born father never served
    # 132 Obama grossly misquoted Sen.Clinton about her vote on a banking bill; BHO used the false quote to show why voters don't trust Government
    # 131 Obama claimed employers are more likely to be struck by lightning than be prosecuted for employing illegals; Gov stats prove he's lying
    # 130 Pushing his Green agenda Obama claimed Japanese Car average 45 mpg fuel efficiency; its actually around 29 mph
    # 129 Obama disparaged the President saying he hadn't met with auto makers until the sixth year of his presidency; GWB met automakers in April 2003
    # 128 Obama disparaged the efficiency of our healthcare system saying the U.S. spends twice per capita than other countries: WaPo proves he's lying
    # 127 Obama claims President Clinton's Labor Secretary said BHO's healthcare plan, "Does more than anybody to reduce costs"; Robert Reich did NOT say it
    # 126 Obama falsely claimed he won the Michigan Democrat primary: he was not on the ballot
    # 125 Obama's Spanish language ad lies about McCain's position on immigration; tries to stir race-war: lies debunked by ABC
    # 124 Obama lies about his interference in Iraqi negotiations; but his campaign admits his treachery
    # 123 Obama took credit for the economic stimulus package passed in Feb 08; BHO's colleagues on Capitol Hill cry BS
    # 122 Obama claims Big Oil is ignoring 68 million acres of oil fields they could be drilling; most fields are being worked
    # 121 Obama claims never questions his opponent's patriotism; asks of McCain "WHICH country first?": ABC says he's questioning McCain's patriotism
    # 120 Obama claims personal savings rates are lowest since the Great Depression; currently higher than under President Clinton
    # 119 Obama claims on this video that he doesn't switch positions; list of 31 flip flops show he's lying
    # 118 In the Primaries Obama puffed his resume claiming he was a "Professor"; State Senate bio shows he was not ; he now agrees
    # 117 When Obama ran for US Senate his web site claimed "5 years as a community organizer"; he admits it was only 3 years
    # 116 Obama's attack ad in Michigan claims McCain doesn't support loan guarantees for auto-industry. McCain DOES support them
    # 115 Obama says "if we're STILL in recession when he takes office...etc"; the economy is NOT in recession
    # 114 Obama claims he signed up for Selective Service when he graduated from High School; records show he did NOT until he'd been at college 1 year
    # 113 Attacking Palin, Obama has the audacity to claim,"Words mean something; you can't just make things up "; BHO makes stuff up
    # 112 Biden claims McCain will increase taxes for workers & Obama will only increase taxes on those making $435k: he's lying
    # 111 Biden claims Obama drew the Nation's attention to problems at Walter Reed Army Hospital; it was two WaPo reporters that reported the issues to the Nation
    # 110 to make Obama seems more American/less exotic, Biden tells Scranton crowd Obama grew up in Kansas; BHO grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia
    # 109 Obama lies yet again to disparage Gov. Palin; ignores her executive experience as Governor of Alaska
    # 108 Obama says the US economy has failed under Bush; World Bank stats proves Obama's been lying; US a world leader in growth, employment, incomes
    # 107 Obama claims if you are born into poverty in America you are on your own: there are many government programs
    # 106 Obama claims he's bi-partisan: voting records prove Obama is #11 most partisan
    # 105 Claimed Hillary would be on anyone's short-list; Hillary wasn't on Obama's short-list
    # 104 Obama claims abortion rates have not gone down under the Bush Administration; stats show they have gone down
    # 103 Obama dismissed Bomber Bill Ayers as "some guy who lives in the neighborhood";they had a close working relationship
    # 102 Obama claims there's no charge to attend his acceptance speech: CBS 4 in Denver proves he's lying; some tickets cost $1000
    # 101 Obama used being a first-time-buyer to justify consulting with Rezko before he bought his house; BHO had already purchased a residence
    # 100 Obama lies about his support for infanticide; campaign concedes in 03 he opposed a bill stopping the killing of kids born alive after abortions
    # 99 Obama overstates Oil Industry's contributions to McCain; ignores cash the Oil industry gave BHO; Newsweek debunks
    # 98 To belittle America,Obama exaggerated the growth in Debt under the current Administration; debunked by WaPo
    # 97 Obama claims President George W Bush had not left the country before he became President; WaPo confirms he's lying
    # 96 To promote "green", Obama claimed he drove a vehicle that uses ethanol; GM confirmed the model was NOT ethanol-ready
    # 95 Obama claims he's taking his family for a week's rest in Hawaii with no campaigning; schedules a rally for first day
    # 94: Obama claims "properly inflating tires" will save as much energy as we could drill offshore; analysis shows not even close
    # 93 Obama denies accusing McCain of using race against him; ABC, NYT confirm Obama did accuse McCain of making racial attacks
    # 92 Obama claims he's not being political when he's flip-flopping; timing & direction of major flip-flops show he's lying
    # 91: Obama INVENTS a wall between Christians and Jews; deceptively omits the major religious wall is caused by a "fatwah" to kill American Christians and Jews
    # 90 Obama claims he made a substantive call for Germany to help in Iraq; Berlin speech transcript proves he's lying
    # 89: Obama admits he underestimated the decline in violence from the Surge; falsely claims McCain made same mistake
    # 88 Obama turned a disappointing crowd of 20,000 into media reports of 200,000
    # 87 Obama lied about his father's religious upbringing! half-brother confirms Obama's father was "RAISED Muslim"
    # 86 Obama claimed we only made one fundraising trip to Florida during the Primary; Florida papers proved he lied
    # 85 Claims reducing obesity to 80's levels would save Medicaid ONE TRILLION DOLLARS; not even close
    # 84 To make Iraq/Afghan Wars look bad, Obama claimed demands on Nat Guard personnel hurt flood relief; Guards prove lying
    # 83 Claimed due to overseas commitments, too few helecopters were available to help with Midwest flood relief; now concedes not true
    # 82 Starting in Iowa, Obama claimed Clinton's healthcare plan would "punish families that couldn't afford healthcare"; NYT calls BS
    # 81 Obama claims McCain's tax plan will do nothing to help the middle-class: The Tax Policy Center proves he's lying
    # 80 claims the use of an Email with a big red DONATE button is NOT a fundraising solicitation
    # 79 Obama claims his trip to Europe was non-political: uses video of Berlin speech to raise money within hours
    # 78 Tells NBC that during the debate on the Surge he said the Surge would work in Baghdad; video proves during the debate he said the opposite
    # 77 Obama's "Changing World" ad claims he'll fast-track alternatives to oil to stop us buying from hostile nations; "fast track" is totally misleading
    # 76 Obama tells Israeli media that he's a member of the Senate Banking Committee; CNN confirms he's delusional
    # 75 Obama claims Lou Dobbs caused hate crimes against Latinos to double; the FBI and CNN confirm Obama is lying
    # 74 Obama claims the military brass think like he does; top US commanders say his plan for Iraq is unworkable
    # 73: Obama promised to filibust FISA; later Obama voted for FISA and now denies changing his position
    # 72 Obama belittles Americans claiming we can't speak European languages; he's talking merde; mierda; Scheiße
    # 71 Obama denied he accused President Bush of starting the War for political reasons; Russert transcript proves Obama made that false claim
    # 70 Obama claims there has been substantial job losses from NAFTA; Independent studies show its at least" job neutral"
    # 69 Claimed in Feb 08 he got 90% of funds from donors giving $25, $50; fed filings show he got only about a third from donors below $200
    # 68 Obama rewrites history about what specifically he had said during his October 2002 anti-war speech
    # 67 Obama claimed in 04 that he had never supported bringing troops out of Iraq; rare video of 03 Teamsters rally shows he's lying
    # 66 Obama lied about the softness of the Stock Market to support his false claim the War was being used to distract the public
    # 65 To justify move to private funds, Obama claims McCain's campaign is" fuelled" by PACs and Lobbyists; its less than 2% of McCain's money
    # 64 Obama's "Dignity" ad claims he "worked his way" thru college and law school; campaign admits only two summer jobs
    # 63 Obama's "Dignity" ad gives him credit for reducing Welfare rolls by 80%: he's deceptive as he was opposed to Fed Welfare Reform in '96
    # 62 In Obama's The Country I love ad, he takes credit for passing a healthcare bill he did NOT vote for
    # 61 Claims he first ran in Chicago as an unendorsed candidate; his '96 election questionnaire proves he had several
    # 60 Obama claims he wants a vigorous and open debate on the issues: then goes out of his way to avoid it
    # 59 Obama omits key details about a false rumor re video of Michelle's "whitey" rant to justify breaking his public funding promise
    # 58 Obama tries to deceive about why he voted "present" more than 100 times in the Illinois Senate; Chicago paper reveals the truth
    # 57 Trying to claim patriotism Obama says his grandad signed up the day after Pearl Harbor; army records disagree
    # 56 Claims race and party not important to how people vote as they put America first; 93% block vote disproves
    # 55 On June 5, Obama stated that Israel must remain undivided; June 6 on CNN he reversed his position, but denied he had done so
    # 54 To further his own agenda, Obama grossly overstates the number of potential African-American votes in MS, GA, SC
    # 53 Promise of $2500 reduction in Healthcare premiums needs billions in Admin cost savings by 2012: not possible
    # 52 Obama omits to mention his 3 week trip to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan until it slips out trying to out-do Clinton
    # 51 Obama claims McCain wants to wage a lengthy war in Iraq: Video proves Obama's lying
    # 50 Obama claimed he never prayed in a mosque; his campaign had to retract that statement
    # 49 Obama dishonestly used endorsements in ads to pump up his healthcare plan
    # 48 Claims he never discussed politics with Pastor; rebutted by photo of Obama with team of lobbyists led by Wright
    # 47 Obama, an expert at parsing words, claimed he wasn't familiar with the word "Clintonian"; then changed his story
    # 46 Despite reeking of cigarettes, Obama denied smoking to ABC; now admits smoking on MSNBC
    # 45 Obama said he'd meet unconditionally with Leader of Iran: now claims he "didn't have Ahmadinejad in mind"
    # 44 Obama claims he is using public financing to avoid special interests: WSJ nails his switcheroo
    # 43 Obama's rhetoric claims more young black men in jail than college: BoJ Stats disprove
    # 42 Claims he never said he was a proponent of single-payer universal healthcare; Video proves he did
    # 41 Obama claims remarks to industrialists were greeted with silence, shows he can deliver tough message: video of ovation
    # 40 Obamas claim you dont rip opponents & leave on roadside:he did to Alice Palmer
    # 39 Obama denies saying Indiana could be tie-breaker: he did
    # 38 Obama omits that Pastor Wright led divestiture campaign from Israel
    # 37 Obama claims Church not controversial; he knew it was controversial since 86
    # 36 Lied about intention of taking US out of NAFTA
    # 35 Obamas claim poverty growing up: both distort reality
    # 34 Obama denies meeting Saddam's Auchi; sworn Fed. witness places Obama at undisclosed party for Auchi at Rezkos
    # 33 Obama lies about not attacking Clinton over her Bosnia lies
    # 32 Obama claims he passed ethics reform; ABC News shows he lied
    # 31 Obama says he's consistently opposed NAFTA; in October 2007 he supported expansion to Peru
    # 30 Obama claims he's above dirty political tricks; Clinton proves he lies
    # 29 Obama claims his "bitter" remarks were mangled; then repeats attacks on guns religion and angry people
    # 28 Obama claims never said he wouldn't wear US flag-pin; video shows he did
    # 27 Obama says he did no favors for Rezko;untrue; he lobbied for him
    # 26 Changes story repeatedly re Rezko's help in buying mansion
    # 25 Obama claims he never supported a ban on handguns; he has twice
    # 24 Obama claims stays at UCC as Pastor acknowledged comments were inappropriate; Wright never made this statement
    # 23 Campaign is beholden to "only the people" as unlike McCain/Clinton he does not take lobbyist /PAC money; LIES!
    # 22 Claims campaign never called Canada to say Obama not truthful re wanting leave NAFTA; smoking gun memo proves lied
    # 21 Mrs Obama admits she's never been proud of America; Video disproves Sen. Obama's later claim she was misquoted
    # 20 Claimed would not run for President, as he would not be qualified by 2008: confirmed 3 times to Tim Russert in one 2006 interview
    # 19 Claims famous in Il. for not letting lobbyists even buy him lunch; took from teachers, trial lawyers, hospital admins
    # 18 Claims his parents met at Selma civil rights march; Washington Post noted it occurred 4 yrs after Obama's birth
    # 17 BO claims courageously opposed war in 2002 during US Senate campaign; He did not announce his senate bid until 2003
    # 16 Claims he passes tough Nuclear Law; NYT uncovers he took Nuclear Industry pay-off and watered down the bill
    # 15 Claimed he didn't know Rezko was corrupt when did a real estate deal with him; Chicago papers prove he lied
    # 14 Claims does not accept money from Big Oil: Real Clear Politics proves he lied
    # 13 Denies using his Hopefund PAC to influence endorsers; but the Washington Post reviewed the record and disagreed
    # 12 Claims his State Chair is not a drug company lobbyist; Time magazine cries Bullshit
    # 11 Lies about how much he received in campaign funds from Rezko; forced to significantly increase the amount twice
    # 10 Claims he did not fill out the 1996 candidate questionaire; Politico proves he lied
    # 9 Took credit for achievement of others in Chicago; resume puffing exposed by LA Times
    # 8 Claims he kept no State Senate records; now he changes his story
    # 7 Denies doubling wife's salary was due to becoming US Senator; omits within months he earmarked $1 million for hospital
    # 6 Denied meeting Saddam bagman Auchi; now admits he was at his dinner but does not remember talking to him
    # 5 Denies using his church for politics: IRS disagree
    # 4 Claims he was unaware of Pastor Wrights 911 comments: NYT proves he lied
    # 3 Claims his father was a goat-herd; actually he was a man of privilige
    # 2 Claims not an active muslim as child; Indonesian paper proves he lied
    # 1 Claims father linked to Kennedys; Washington Post proves he lied
    Obama WTF
    Oh and here's a good recent one...


    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    "I haven't even rolled up my sleeves yet in talking about what's wrong with the Obama administration but I'll leave it there."

    Obama is not your type of guy is he? Give us a clue who you would have preferred to be running the shop down there? Palin?
    Dr. Ron Paul. He's a man of integrity, honest, extremely well educated, practical and isn't in the pocket of Wallstreet or big pharma.
    Last edited by Apollo; Sun Mar 28th, 2010 at 12:53 AM.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Superstar
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    Apollo,

    One more go...

    1) Could you please explain how the site you cite arrives at 57 trillion (ytd… whatever that means). It is a fact that the current deficit/debt is 12.6 trill. It is also clear from my previous post that Obama inherited a deficit of over 10 trill. So, I beg to understand why you blame Obama for 57 trill. Even if one voodoo-ed the 12.6 into 57…how is it that Obama is being blamed for all of the current deficit.

    2) Re: constitutionality of the health bill. I am not in the least bit capable of nor wish to argue this very lofty subject. But I do know that the US Congress enacted a law and at some point the obstructionists (the Republican party in this case) will probably contest it in the Supreme Court. I am sure larger legal minds than you, me or the Wall St. Journal (an organ of big business and of course Wall St. and now owned by Rupert Murdoch of FOX News) have deemed that it is legal. I understand in the States, one has to pay into social security….another one of those odious "socialist" programs. Is that unconstitutional as well? In Canada we are “forced” to pay for our health care through our taxes. Do you find it unconstitutional, illegal or objectionable to do so? I think I posed this question before.

    3) Re: the video clip from Fox News…Were you aware that the only inaccuracy in the statement was that his uncle was in the forces group that liberated the Buchenwald concentration camp… rather than Auchswicz?! He just misspoke the camp name. It is this kind of gotcha & petty finger pointing that some rabid conservatives and Fox News (definitely, “not fair nor balanced”) which is harming intelligent and proper political discourse in that country.
    The following link shall explain further…

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/44/20...liberatio.html

    4) Re: Ron Paul…the little I know about him is that he is a libertarian and he was/is diminished by his own political party as a crank. Here is a piece though that doesn’t paint a very flattering historical picture based on his own writings.

    http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/angry-white-man

    To state “he isn’t in the pocket of Wallstreet or big Pharma” is to refute somewhat the contributions made to his political campaign from such institutions and many other big businesses as all politicians in the US do....a bane of their system imo.

    http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2007/Q...C00432914.html


    I would love to investigate all of the 158 “lies” you cited...but...are you really convinced they are all accurate? The site looks a bit dodgy and the resident cartoonist/Photoshop expert isnt very good.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Starter
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    Wow this escalated quickly. This is the problem with arguing on the internet, you can pull facts out of anywhere and its near impossible to distinguish legitimacy from fabrication.

    You could combine all 158 lies and it still doesn't touch the Bush administration fabricating the existence of WMD's as a precursor for invading Iraq.

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