JV comparable big man production in the modern NBA

[Fully]

Did Casey really say that "Chandler couldn't operate well in my system."?

I thought the quote was in response to why JV sat in the fourth quarter one game, and Casey said it was because he wanted a faster and more mobile defensive unit that could chase guys off the 3 point line, and the Chandler bit was thrown in as if to say, it's nothing personal against JV… even if I had Chandler (who Casey obviously has a great deal of love and respect for) he wouldn't have played either because it was strictly about match ups.

Maybe there was another quote that I missed though.

[white men can't jump]

Did Casey really say that "Chandler couldn't operate well in my system."?

I thought the quote was in response to why JV sat in the fourth quarter one game, and Casey said it was because he wanted a faster and more mobile defensive unit that could chase guys off the 3 point line, and the Chandler bit was thrown in as if to say, it's nothing personal against JV… even if I had Chandler (who Casey obviously has a great deal of love and respect for) he wouldn't have played either because it was strictly about match ups.

Maybe there was another quote that I missed though.

You're pretty much spot on. But I dug up a couple of relevant quotes, including the specific one you're thinking of, a few days ago in the Everything Valanciunas thread.

http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...011#post459011

Basically, he refuses to try and stay big in small matchups, and probably vastly overrates the importance of closing out on shooters. As S.R. points out in response to those comments, the game he made that statement after was against Milwaukee, one of the worst shooting teams in the league. They were 5-18 in that game (I believe it was the Jan 19th one). He also mentions "if Jonas had been dominating offensively he'd probably stay in"...and JV had a double double at halftime.

**I think the lack of awareness to situational elements is what peeves fans the most. Using the small matchup or speed excuse when you're playing a team that isn't particularly fast or good at shooting the ball is pretty odd, especially when your big man is on pace for a 20-20 night.

[Mindlessness]

Did Casey really say that "Chandler couldn't operate well in my system."?

I thought the quote was in response to why JV sat in the fourth quarter one game, and Casey said it was because he wanted a faster and more mobile defensive unit that could chase guys off the 3 point line, and the Chandler bit was thrown in as if to say, it's nothing personal against JV… even if I had Chandler (who Casey obviously has a great deal of love and respect for) he wouldn't have played either because it was strictly about match ups.

Maybe there was another quote that I missed though.

He said suggest, you're saying it was thrown in. Here's the actual quote from Raptors Watch.

“If I had Tyson Chandler, he probably wouldn’t be in the game,” Casey added. “It’s no disrespect. It’s just the style of play. If JV is dominating offensively in that situation, we would probably keep him in. Our issues were that we needed energy, we needed speed. We needed something to get us going in our rotations. And that’s just not his attributes. It’s not one of his assets that he has. It’s nothing against him. It could be anybody. I think that’s something that’s been established. Unfortunately we’ve been in those situations a lot in the fourth quarter, where we needed some speed or have gone small, and Amir [Johnson] and Pat, and last night it was Tyler that gave us that defensive energy we needed.”

I would basically interpret the bolds as "Tyson Chandler would not fit in my defensive scheme," wouldn't you?

[Fully]

I would basically interpret the bolds as "Tyson Chandler would not fit in my defensive scheme," wouldn't you?

No, unless you're taking a single sentence out of context and running wild with it, but I know none of you guys would do that! Let's think about this rationally - Casey won an NBA title with Chandler as the key cog in his defensive system. Of course he thinks Chandler would fit in his system. He's talking about a specific time, in a specific game, where he didn't think a "traditional" centre was the best option, and it doesn't matter if it was JV, Chandler, or Wilt Chamberlain, they wouldn't have played.

The way I've seen the quote referenced and analyzed in the past few days, you make it seem like he called a special press conference to announce it or he penned a 1,000 word opinion piece in the Sun called "Tyson Chandler would not fit in my defensive scheme!". It was a throw away quote, that was actually meant to appease JV and his supporters, in one of the hundred or so interviews that Casey has done this year.

You can debate the overall idea of the go-small strategy on defence all day, and I'd be on the same side as you with a lot of your complaints (not with the notion that defending the 3 point line suddenly becomes not so important against teams that don't shoot it great however; especially when you're protecting a small lead in a game, but I digress)… but the quote about Chandler means absolutely nothing.

[Joey]

No, unless you're taking a single sentence out of context and running wild with it, but I know none of you guys would do that! Let's think about this rationally - Casey won an NBA title with Chandler as the key cog in his defensive system. Of course he thinks Chandler would fit in his system. He's talking about a specific time, in a specific game, where he didn't think a "traditional" centre was the best option, and it doesn't matter if it was JV, Chandler, or Wilt Chamberlain, they wouldn't have played.

To the above quote, it speaks to Caseys ability to be Proactive, as opposed to Reactive. Everything he does is reactionary, and he very rarely, if ever, drives the tempo of the game and to take a quote from Tom Sterner "Imposes his will on the Opponents". Instead of conceding the mismatch, and subbing JV out, take advantage of the mismatch and exploit JVs ability to bash down low and out rebound smaller opponents guarding him, and come up with a system that allows JV to stay home in the paint.

[distorsun]

JV is a good shooter, but he's not encouraged or play in a system to use his jumper.
I think we ran PICK & POP twice this year for him.

TWICE....(one time, it was by accident)
--

That's why I'm hating on CAsey so much , I think our young guys are not progressing fast enough. JV could've had Hortford type range by now, but alas, we HAVE TO WAIT IT OUT.

Filthy.

With those mechanics, that 18 footer's going to start falling eventually.

[Superjudge]

Its clear that most people here have completely deluded themselves into believing that JV is a special, superstar big in waiting who is just being misused by an idiot off the street.

Its ridiculous.... and this is me being kind.

Most of what I'm reading here is lunacy, presented somehow as straight up fact.

"JV is a good shooter, that isn't encouraged to shoot"

Good fucking lord. He has the green light to hit 10- 12 foot jumpers and he freezes like a scared rabbit every time he gets the ball. part of that is him being aggressive, which is nice, but his decision making is horrid, and his ingrained habit of NEVER shooting is killing his ability to get into the paint reliably.

Experience. Maturity. confidence.

This is all you're seeing. It has nothing to do with "systems" or "coaches".

Its painful to see how you guys chatter on about professional coaches as if you have ANY RIGHT to sit at that table for discussion. I would pay a lot of cash to see you guys try to prove this shit, on a court, in a practice with Casey there to argue his own case. Good luck scientists.

You have an ok team, with ok talent and a big man who is young, and raw and not there yet. Deal with it and stop making silly excuses.

[MACK11]

Its clear that most people here have completely deluded themselves into believing that JV is a special, superstar big in waiting who is just being misused by an idiot off the street.

Its ridiculous.... and this is me being kind.

Most of what I'm reading here is lunacy, presented somehow as straight up fact.

"JV is a good shooter, that isn't encouraged to shoot"

Good fucking lord. He has the green light to hit 10- 12 foot jumpers and he freezes like a scared rabbit every time he gets the ball. part of that is him being aggressive, which is nice, but his decision making is horrid, and his ingrained habit of NEVER shooting is killing his ability to get into the paint reliably.

Experience. Maturity. confidence.

This is all you're seeing. It has nothing to do with "systems" or "coaches".

Its painful to see how you guys chatter on about professional coaches as if you have ANY RIGHT to sit at that table for discussion. I would pay a lot of cash to see you guys try to prove this shit, on a court, in a practice with Casey there to argue his own case. Good luck scientists.

You have an ok team, with ok talent and a big man who is young, and raw and not there yet. Deal with it and stop making silly excuses.

Lol

[Superjudge]

you can laugh all you like Mack, I'm not wrong.

[MACK11]

you can laugh all you like Mack, I'm not wrong.

Your "Get off my lawn" attitude is admirable

[distorsun]

POP QUIZ:
Name me ONE or more things the Raps do well DEFENSIVELY ?

[Bandit]

Its clear that most people here have completely deluded themselves into believing that JV is a special, superstar big in waiting who is just being misused by an idiot off the street.

Its ridiculous.... and this is me being kind.

Most of what I'm reading here is lunacy, presented somehow as straight up fact.

"JV is a good shooter, that isn't encouraged to shoot"

Good fucking lord. He has the green light to hit 10- 12 foot jumpers and he freezes like a scared rabbit every time he gets the ball. part of that is him being aggressive, which is nice, but his decision making is horrid, and his ingrained habit of NEVER shooting is killing his ability to get into the paint reliably.

Experience. Maturity. confidence.

This is all you're seeing. It has nothing to do with "systems" or "coaches".

Its painful to see how you guys chatter on about professional coaches as if you have ANY RIGHT to sit at that table for discussion. I would pay a lot of cash to see you guys try to prove this shit, on a court, in a practice with Casey there to argue his own case. Good luck scientists.

You have an ok team, with ok talent and a big man who is young, and raw and not there yet. Deal with it and stop making silly excuses.

I agree with the premise on most of what you are saying except for the bolded.

Experience can be resolved by the coach, let him make mistakes and play through them, get him more touches and let him have a greater role where he is put in more situations. Yes we would have lost more games this year, but JV would be more experienced and potentially a better player because of it. There are those who believe JV has All-star potential (not sure I've read Superstar anywhere, and I am one of them) who would rather a worse seed for a third All-star contributor in the playoffs.

Maturity. This one is difficult to put a finger on. We can't really blame anyone for this without understanding the issue. Maturity comes partly from experience so in that regard we could say Coaching staff is at fault. Comes largely from personal mindset which would fall exclusively on JV. Then there are all sorts of other factors that maybe only MU can piece together like he did with Lowry.

Confidence, this falls on the leaders of the team. And by leaders that encompasses the Vets, Coaches, DD + KL etc... Any good leader should understand that their followers feed off of them and need to be made to feel confident. It is the rare person who doesn't need that help or that guidance. IMO, Casey is putting his players in a system that isn't helping them. Casey himself said that he would bench Chandler in the fourth if he had him because he couldn't do what the system wants. That isn't going to help JV's confidence.

As for the opinion of not having a right to discuss these things, well that's ignorance on your part. It's disrespectful and I feel like it's an attack on my intelligence. Everyone who posts on this board has a passion for the game not unlike the players/coaches/GM's of the league. We don't have first hand experience coaching an NBA team I'm sure for the most part but every successful coach out there was probably doing the same thing we are at one point or another. The most intelligent and successful people in the world can make mistakes and have opinions that aren't worth shit, while the most uninformed of individuals can have ideas that change the foundation of everything.

[S.R.]

Its clear that most people here have completely deluded themselves into believing that JV is a special, superstar big in waiting who is just being misused by an idiot off the street.

Its ridiculous.... and this is me being kind.

Most of what I'm reading here is lunacy, presented somehow as straight up fact.

"JV is a good shooter, that isn't encouraged to shoot"

Good fucking lord. He has the green light to hit 10- 12 foot jumpers and he freezes like a scared rabbit every time he gets the ball. part of that is him being aggressive, which is nice, but his decision making is horrid, and his ingrained habit of NEVER shooting is killing his ability to get into the paint reliably.

Experience. Maturity. confidence.

This is all you're seeing. It has nothing to do with "systems" or "coaches".

Its painful to see how you guys chatter on about professional coaches as if you have ANY RIGHT to sit at that table for discussion. I would pay a lot of cash to see you guys try to prove this shit, on a court, in a practice with Casey there to argue his own case. Good luck scientists.

You have an ok team, with ok talent and a big man who is young, and raw and not there yet. Deal with it and stop making silly excuses.

So many problems with this line you bust out every couple of weeks, but let's just boil it down to one point:

If the rest of us have no right to discuss and critique coaching because we're not professional coaches, then you have no right to discuss and critique Jonas' play because you're not an NBA basketball player. Let's try it this way:

Its painful to see how superjudge chatters on about professional basketball players as if he has ANY RIGHT to sit at that table for discussion. I would pay a lot of cash to see him try to prove this shit, on a court, in a practice with Valanciunas. Good luck playa.

How's that?

Btw I don't disagree with the growth & development still needed, and I'm pretty sure most here agree as well. Main point is having him play more minutes and be more involved at this point will likely help his development more. Ignoring him and benching him and then saying "he has to be a man and earn it!" is kinda lame. The only healthy situations where players develop that way are when they're playing behind a more talented & experienced teammate. Otherwise guys are given the minutes, touches, and responsibilities needed to develop all the time.

[GLF]

POP QUIZ:
Name me ONE or more things the Raps do well DEFENSIVELY ?

We are 10th best at turning teams over lol. That's it though. And that can be a bad thing because it means we gamble a lot. So to answer your question, absolutely nothing.

[slaw]

Its painful to see how you guys chatter on about professional coaches as if you have ANY RIGHT to sit at that table for discussion. I would pay a lot of cash to see you guys try to prove this shit, on a court, in a practice with Casey there to argue his own case. Good luck scientists.

One does not have to be an expert at a thing to criticize it or people who do it. I don't need to be an expert carpenter to see that the contractor I hired to renovate my basement left a hole in the wall. I don't need to direct Raiders of Lost Ark to know that Superman Returns sucks. Why do you always resort to this circumstantial ad hominem? Now, not everyone's opinion is as valid as everyone else's surely. But that's not much of an insight is it?

And how dare you criticize JV for not shooting 10-12 footers and freezing like a deer in the headlights? I'd pay good money to see you get out on the court and make quicker decisions than JV. Good luck.