JV comparable big man production in the modern NBA

[OldSkoolCool]

Ross benefits from his wing position being more on-ball oriented. His help rotations are still fairly poor by comparison but since most of his defensive responsibilities consist of track, deny then on-ball, they are minimalised over the course of a game.

An added note on Ross is I think his help rotations are exceptionally quick.

Right now he does struggle with containing stronger guards and can be lifted (however he can still recover cause he is stupidly athletic).

I have zero issues with his development curve on the defensive side so far. The stats will come as he becomes stronger and more consistent. This is only his second year.

As a general rule of thumb, a rookie contract length is a reasonable grace period for a players development. Seeing as Ross is only in his second year, his rotations and on-ball defense are very good.

On Ross "getting" the defensive side already. Um, nope. He has very high potential defensively, and CAN be a game changer on that end, but very, very often gets lost or drifts for a second.

true, however he is so stupidly athletic, 80% of the time he still can recover...

[Axel]

An added note on Ross is I think his help rotations are exceptionally quick.

Right now he does struggle with containing stronger guards and can be lifted (however he can still recover cause he is stupidly athletic).

I have zero issues with his development curve on the defensive side so far. The stats will come as he becomes stronger and more consistent. This is only his second year.

As a general rule of thumb, a rookie contract length is a reasonable grace period for a players development. Seeing as Ross is only in his second year, his rotations and on-ball defense are very good.



true, however he is so stupidly athletic, 80% of the time he still can recover...

I'm certainly not knocking Ross or his D. But to say that he has "figured out" the D so Jonas should have too is a bit much. Ross makes errors too but he is in a much simpler position to defend.

I have very high hopes for Ross. I think JV will be a better player in comparison to others at his position than Ross, but Ross should be very good (and likely better than DD). The two of them are great young players that fit well with each other and any players. A wing that shoots the three and defends. A big who scores and rebounds. You could plug that into any roster and be successful.

[Uncle_Si]

I'm certainly not knocking Ross or his D. But to say that he has "figured out" the D so Jonas should have too is a bit much. Ross makes errors too but he is in a much simpler position to defend.

I have very high hopes for Ross. I think JV will be a better player in comparison to others at his position than Ross, but Ross should be very good (and likely better than DD). The two of them are great young players that fit well with each other and any players. A wing that shoots the three and defends. A big who scores and rebounds. You could plug that into any roster and be successful.

With Ross' added size I think he can average 14-16ppg this year. Hopefully he worked on his handles and passing because I think that's all he needs really. Once he figures out how to draw contact like DD (and earn respect from refs) I think he'll be very good. Potential all-star by year 4

[Axel]

With Ross' added size I think he can average 14-16ppg this year. Hopefully he worked on his handles and passing because I think that's all he needs really. Once he figures out how to draw contact like DD (and earn respect from refs) I think he'll be very good. Potential all-star by year 4

Ross is very hard to find a good comparable. Looking at his stats from last year, the closest sophomore comparisons I could find were Q Rich, OJ Mayo, Wesley Matthews, Eric Gordon and (old school) Michael Dickerson. All played more than 25 mpg, scored between 14 - 18 per 36, and shot the 3 pointer better than 37%.

Unfortunately, all of those players except Gordon saw their stats go down over the next years. Mayo saw his minutes plummet from 36 to 26 and never regained his spot. Matthews saw his scoring dip despite the same minutes, before this year getting back up again. Dickerson's career best was his 2nd season, and didn't last many more. Gordon went on to be an injury prone scorer who's always been fed a high usage (career low is 20.7%, high is 29%), while Ross remains the 4th or 5th option it seems.

So I find Ross very difficult to predict. He's low on the pecking order, faces stiff competition for minutes (probably more than any other starter), and has to do it all while guarding the other team's best perimeter player. I'd be very happy if Ross can play 28-30 mpg, and scores 13-15 per game. I think added 3.5 RPG and 1.0 SPG isn't asking a lot either. Biggest thing for Ross on offence is to get open and hope the ball movement gets to him (39.5% from deep last year is nice already). Defensively, help rotations will be better with experience. Needs to rely more on his smarts and less on his athleticism to make it easier on himself.

[mcHAPPY]

Ross is very hard to find a good comparable. Looking at his stats from last year, the closest sophomore comparisons I could find were Q Rich, OJ Mayo, Wesley Matthews, Eric Gordon and (old school) Michael Dickerson. All played more than 25 mpg, scored between 14 - 18 per 36, and shot the 3 pointer better than 37%.

Unfortunately, all of those players except Gordon saw their stats go down over the next years. Mayo saw his minutes plummet from 36 to 26 and never regained his spot. Matthews saw his scoring dip despite the same minutes, before this year getting back up again. Dickerson's career best was his 2nd season, and didn't last many more. Gordon went on to be an injury prone scorer who's always been fed a high usage (career low is 20.7%, high is 29%), while Ross remains the 4th or 5th option it seems.

So I find Ross very difficult to predict. He's low on the pecking order, faces stiff competition for minutes (probably more than any other starter), and has to do it all while guarding the other team's best perimeter player. I'd be very happy if Ross can play 28-30 mpg, and scores 13-15 per game. I think added 3.5 RPG and 1.0 SPG isn't asking a lot either. Biggest thing for Ross on offence is to get open and hope the ball movement gets to him (39.5% from deep last year is nice already). Defensively, help rotations will be better with experience. Needs to rely more on his smarts and less on his athleticism to make it easier on himself.

If Ross becomes anything close to WEs Matthews I'd be ecstatic.

I love Matthews' game.

Great complimentary offensive player and great defensive player.

[Axel]

If Ross becomes anything close to WEs Matthews I'd be ecstatic.

I love Matthews' game.

Great complimentary offensive player and great defensive player.

Really? I like Matthews, and I think for the short term, his game is stylistically what we want from Ross. But at the end of the day, I think Ross could be better than Matthews. Ross is way more athletic and should be more dynamic than Matthews on both ends of the floor.

I honestly hope that Ross becomes a Raptors-era T-Mac. A guy who shoots, defends and is a rotating top option off the dribble, but still not the alpha guy (so lower usage% but takes over in spurts). I don't think he'll ever be a high usage scoring option (or as good as T-Mac was once he left Toronto), but a T-Mac esque 15 PPG, 6 RPG, 4 APG, 1 SPG, and 1.9 BPG (his final season in Toronto) isn't that far off. A couple more rebounds and more involvement in the offence (needed to get the assist totals up - although McGrady was a much better passer) should occur naturally over the next 2 seasons, so the main focus for him will be defence. McGrady was a much better shot blocker but Ross has the hops and hopefully will be a better help defender moving forward.

*Note: McGrady's final season stat line was his 3rd season in the NBA. So while Ross can get there in a year or two, he's not on the McGrady development curve.

[mcHAPPY]

Really? I like Matthews, and I think for the short term, his game is stylistically what we want from Ross. But at the end of the day, I think Ross could be better than Matthews. Ross is way more athletic and should be more dynamic than Matthews on both ends of the floor.

I honestly hope that Ross becomes a Raptors-era T-Mac. A guy who shoots, defends and is a rotating top option off the dribble, but still not the alpha guy (so lower usage% but takes over in spurts). I don't think he'll ever be a high usage scoring option (or as good as T-Mac was once he left Toronto), but a T-Mac esque 15 PPG, 6 RPG, 4 APG, 1 SPG, and 1.9 BPG (his final season in Toronto) isn't that far off. A couple more rebounds and more involvement in the offence (needed to get the assist totals up - although McGrady was a much better passer) should occur naturally over the next 2 seasons, so the main focus for him will be defence. McGrady was a much better shot blocker but Ross has the hops and hopefully will be a better help defender moving forward.

*Note: McGrady's final season stat line was his 3rd season in the NBA. So while Ross can get there in a year or two, he's not on the McGrady development curve.

If Ross can be a more athletic and dynamic than Matthews on both ends of the floor even better!

I don't see the similarity to T-Mac. Ross might improve in the areas you mentioned but he will be 24 in February. Maybe DeRozan rubs off on him with the work ethic and he pulls a dramatic improvement at 25 like DD did..... and hey, I was wrong before so here is hoping to once again. The only stats I see Ross ending up having like TMac are the points and steals. The 1.9 blocks definitely won't happen. To put in perspective that would make him tied for 5th in blocks last season ahead of guys such as Drummond, Howard, Bogut, Noah, Favors, and Henson.


I really like what Matthews brings to the floor and believe he is extremely underrated. Like I said initially, I'd be super impressed with a Matthews-like game and stat line: lots of 3s, scoring within flow of offense, defense, and low turnovers.

[Axel]

If Ross can be a more athletic and dynamic than Matthews on both ends of the floor even better!

I don't see the similarity to T-Mac. Ross might improve in the areas you mentioned but he will be 24 in February. Maybe DeRozan rubs off on him with the work ethic and he pulls a dramatic improvement at 25 like DD did..... and hey, I was wrong before so here is hoping to once again. The only stats I see Ross ending up having like TMac are the points and steals. The 1.9 blocks definitely won't happen. To put in perspective that would make him tied for 5th in blocks last season ahead of guys such as Drummond, Howard, Bogut, Noah, Favors, and Henson.


I really like what Matthews brings to the floor and believe he is extremely underrated. Like I said initially, I'd be super impressed with a Matthews-like game and stat line: lots of 3s, scoring within flow of offense, defense, and low turnovers.

When I mean like T-Mac I'm talking about role. Ross will never be as good as T-Mac, but in terms of role, he fits better to McGrady than Matthews. Matthews is a spot up shooter on offence (catch and shoot floor spreader) and guards stronger guards (while Batum takes the best player usually). Ross should be able to be a bigger part of the offence (dribble drive, back door cuts, floor spreader, etc), while guarding the best player. That role is more like T-Mac circa Raptors. Vince did most of the scoring (Demar) and controlled the offence, while T-Mac played off-ball most of the time, then took spurts of running in VC's place (successfully) depending on match-ups and all that. Matthews is a bit player in a role while McGrady was a great player playing a deferred role. Ross isn't as good as McGrady, but is better than Matthews, so he would fall someone in between, and in that regard he should be like T-Mac, a player better than his role.

When you look at T-Mac's final season stat line, 15-6-4-1-2. The 15 PPG is completely attainable. The 6 RPG is a lot to ask, but in a couple of years I think 5 is realistic. 4 APG would be a challenge since this team has more play-makers, but 3 wouldn't be too much (again, not this season, but in a year or 3). He is already at the 1 SPG (0.8 I believe). The 2 BPG would be huge and therefore unrealistic, but 1 BPG while being the primary perimeter defender (like T-Mac) fits the bill. So some of the stats do line up, while the role is what sticks for me.

[Heatdreamer]

Dont you feel that Tdot should trade for another SF prospect of larger size, so that the rotation of DD, TRoss and that SF prospect would be a good 2 and 3 Rotation. Sometimes GV could drop down and play the 2 with KL like last year.

That goal would make Lou Williams expendable for that SF Prospect after a good start as a scoring sixth man, and be good trade material before the trade deadline.

[Heatdreamer]

Chris Bosh in Miami took three years to learn help defense. Additionally he had to sacrifice scoring to achieve that. We, also now his rebounding took a huge drop, and was almost down right embarrassing. The toughest part of being the center is that there are now many more aspects than post defense, because in today's team concepts, there is help and recover, high post screen defense, where pick and pop (with a higher success rate of outside shooting) deals with the expectation of maneuverability and than crashing the boards from that position which could initially be 15 feet from the basket.
T Ross does not have all these responsibilities

[mcHAPPY]

Dont you feel that Tdot should trade for another SF prospect of larger size, so that the rotation of DD, TRoss and that SF prospect would be a good 2 and 3 Rotation. Sometimes GV could drop down and play the 2 with KL like last year.

That goal would make Lou Williams expendable for that SF Prospect after a good start as a scoring sixth man, and be good trade material before the trade deadline.

Bruno?

Raps have SF prospect.
They have 3 guys who can play the role right now in Ross/DD, JJ, Fields.
Raps are set it is just a matter of time and waiting for guys to develop while also waiting for cap space to open up.

The Raptors are likely to follow Indiana's progression. Indiana went in regular season east standings 10, 8, 3, 3, 1. Now the wheels have fallen off with Hibbert's.... well, whatever he has...... George's injury, and Stephenson's departure. But that is the type of progression I see for Toronto - lots of internal growth and tweaking. The Raps are waiting for their David West free agent and JV/Ross/Bruno to do their Hibbert/Stephenson/George development. I know they were a 4th seed last year but with the East and the Atlantic in particular being so bad I don't look at them as a divisional champ in a normal year (sorry to anyone who takes offense to that).



Anyways....... #Bruno2016 #Patience #EnjoyTheRide

[DanH]

Getting a big, young, good SF is the dream - then you can stick with Amir/Patterson at the 4 in a complementary role.

Barnes might be possible to get from GSW, not sure of the cost.

Kawhi Leonard will be a RFA next summer, doubt the Spurs let him go, but worth throwing the max at just in case.

[DanH]

Alternatively, you look for an upgrade at the 4 if the SF production goes well this year.

[Heatdreamer]

Dont you find that T Ross is more of a 2 than a 3? He is a small three. Or is his hops compensate for his lack of physical stature

[DanH]

He is a small 3, but there are only so many big 3's, and JJ can fill some minutes against them. And Bruno, if he stays a 3, and if he pans out, will be a huge 3.