is there a chance this year to win 50

[Demographic Shift]

Yeah, I was curious how they ranked them against the Knicks....looks about right.

No love whatsoever for the vangundy pistons.. 36 wins and 10th overall... I would take the over on that one.
The Nix n Nets n' Hawks slugging it out for last seeds @ 7 & 8... Few calling for the Hawks to finish ahead of the Heat for 6th.
And then the dogs with fleas Magic / Celtics and Sixers.. I wonder if Philly averages less than 7 thousand fans a game trotting out that lineup.

[white men can't jump]

No love whatsoever for the vangundy pistons.. 36 wins and 10th overall... I would take the over on that one.
The Nix n Nets n' Hawks slugging it out for last seeds @ 7 & 8... Few calling for the Hawks to finish ahead of the Heat for 6th.
And then the dogs with fleas Magic / Celtics and Sixers.. I wonder if Philly averages less than 7 thousand fans a game trotting out that lineup.

Gotta remember the potential holes on Detroit. They could still have all the same problems as last year, and even a coach like SVG can't always find a way to overcome such obstacles. Who's going to create for them on the perimeter? KCP? Jodie Meeks? Caron Butler? Augustin and Jennings? How will they maximize their odd frontcourt? Will Jennings' stupidity be fixed by SVG, or lead the latter to a murder charge and life in prison? All burning questions.

It's a really messy roster that would take some amazing coaching even by SVG's standards to make the playoffs. If they do, he'd probably finish top 3 in votes for COY, if not win it.

[Demographic Shift]

Gotta remember the potential holes on Detroit. They could still have all the same problems as last year, and even a coach like SVG can't always find a way to overcome such obstacles. Who's going to create for them on the perimeter? KCP? Jodie Meeks? Caron Butler? Augustin and Jennings? How will they maximize their odd frontcourt? Will Jennings' stupidity be fixed by SVG, or lead the latter to a murder charge and life in prison? All burning questions.

It's a really messy roster that would take some amazing coaching even by SVG's standards to make the playoffs. If they do, he'd probably finish top 3 in votes for COY, if not win it.

With the addition of Augustine and Meeks Stan is going to run his inside out offense. Re Jennings : the days of the king of the ass muppets are numbered as he will either ride the pine or be moved (as the bad medicine) along with Monroe as soon as a reaasonable deal presents itself. Drummond is still a problem as he is probably a poorer foul shooter than Dwight or Shaq ever were but he will clean the glass on both ends and get the ball out to the perimiter for meeks and augustine. Josh Smith moves back to PF where he belongs and plays inside after Monroe waves bye-bye. Depending on who they can get for Monroe/Jennings they still need some work but I see them finishing with more than 36 wins and with a chance to finish higher than the knicks.

[Since Day 1]

I'd put money on them winning 50.

[white men can't jump]

With the addition of Augustine and Meeks Stan is going to run his inside out offense. Re Jennings : the days of the king of the ass muppets are numbered as he will either ride the pine or be moved (as the bad medicine) along with Monroe as soon as a reaasonable deal presents itself. Drummond is still a problem as he is probably a poorer foul shooter than Dwight or Shaq ever were but he will clean the glass on both ends and get the ball out to the perimiter for meeks and augustine. Josh Smith moves back to PF where he belongs and plays inside after Monroe waves bye-bye. Depending on who they can get for Monroe/Jennings they still need some work but I see them finishing with more than 36 wins and with a chance to finish higher than the knicks.

Augustin and Meeks are pretty poor players in general. It's hard to know what they'll get from Augustin. The stretch he played for Chicago was good, but he was also given free reign as basically their only perimeter threat with the ball in his hands. And he's still a poor PG. Meeks is just a shooter. He has not shown the ability to do anything else at a solid level in the NBA.

Their team reminds me a bit of the JO year in Toronto. 3 frontcourt pieces that don't fit together. A wing crew where no one really stands out, with a generally low talent level and where there basically isn't a single dynamic two-way player in the bunch (even the Raps had Parker, who was a solid if unspectacular player on both ends). I suppose they're "deeper" at PG with Jennings, Augustin and Bynum, as Toronto had no one really behind Jose that year....but that tandem is not necessarily going to have a more positive impact than Jose would alone (just because of intangibles and bball IQ).

And then there's a gigantic flaw in your logic, because there's no way trading Monroe or Jennings will help their team. Monroe is going to become an UFA. No team is going to give up anything that useful for him. As for Jennings, he might be the starting PG with the lowest value in the whole league. No team will give up good pieces for the privilege of a season and a half of Jennings at $8M+ a season. So if they trade those guys, it's actually more likely a tanking move to make sure they bottom out and get a higher pick.

[The Great One]

Yes.

[Demographic Shift]

Augustin and Meeks are pretty poor players in general. It's hard to know what they'll get from Augustin. The stretch he played for Chicago was good, but he was also given free reign as basically their only perimeter threat with the ball in his hands. And he's still a poor PG. Meeks is just a shooter. He has not shown the ability to do anything else at a solid level in the NBA.

But thats what Stan wants out of Meeks a high percentage 3 point shooter. Meeks put it up 400 plus times last year and shot 40%. Inside out. Agree on Augustine. Will the Pistons get the guy who rose like a phoenix out of the fire in Chicago , or the guy who couldn't get anything going in Toronto ... He is not the floor general to take Detroit to the promised land but he is more dependable than Jennings.

And then there's a gigantic flaw in your logic, because there's no way trading Monroe or Jennings will help their team. Monroe is going to become an UFA. No team is going to give up anything that useful for him. As for Jennings, he might be the starting PG with the lowest value in the whole league. No team will give up good pieces for the privilege of a season and a half of Jennings at $8M+ a season. So if they trade those guys, it's actually more likely a tanking move to make sure they bottom out and get a higher pick.

Can't agree with you on your thoughts no team is going to bite on Monroe. All you need is one and that team is out there right now. Monore clearly doesn't want to be in Detroit and its best for all to get those who don't want to be part of the program out as fast as you can for both the team and the players sakes. I can see him being moved as early as November for something that will be of immediate value to the Motowners. SVG has the coach and player personnel hats and he will make the best deal he can... Just a couple of hypotheticals ... To Minny for Rubio ? To Boston with filler for Rondo ? Might as well include the Knicks as they have Shumpert and Michigan alumni Hardaway....

[Fanchie]

Vegas has the Raps at 49.5 for the over/under. They think 50 wins as well.
Complete Odds below.

How bad is it going to be in Philly ?

Vegas has the Knicks and Nets under 500 ball this year but thats won't deter the blow hards down the interstate in NYC.

Westgate SuperBook NBA Win Totals
Predicted NBA win totals for the 2014-15 NBA season, posted by the Westgate SuperBook in Las Vegas on Tuesday September 30.

Team Win Total
Cavaliers 58.5
Thunder 57.5
Spurs 56.5
Bulls 55.5
Clippers 55.5
Warriors 50.5
Mavericks 49.5
Raptors 49.5
Rockets 49.5
Wizards 49.5
Grizzlies 48.5
Trail Blazer 48.5
Hornets 45.5
Heat 43.5
Suns 41.5
Pelicans 41.5
Nets 41.5
Hawks 40.5
Knicks 40.5
Nuggets 40.5
Pistons 36.5
Pacers 32.5
Lakers 31.5
Kings 30.5
Magic 28.5
Celtics 26.5
Jazz 25.5
Timberwolves 25.5
Bucks 24.5
76ers 15.5

Doubters are still calling this a surprise.

http://www.vavel.com/en-us/nba/39836...book-east.html

The guy basically says that Raps are overhyped, but still manages to demonstrate how offseason turned them into a better team. Duh.

Though coming from a guy who thinks Pistons AND Magic will get Hornets out of the playoff pictures, I'd take this words with a grain of salt...

[iblastoff]

Doubters are still calling this a surprise.

http://www.vavel.com/en-us/nba/39836...book-east.html

The guy basically says that Raps are overhyped, but still manages to demonstrate how offseason turned them into a better team. Duh.

Though coming from a guy who thinks Pistons AND Magic will get Hornets out of the playoff pictures, I'd take this words with a grain of salt...

there was literally nothing in that article that said the raptors were overhyped.

[Fanchie]

there was literally nothing in that article that said the raptors were overhyped.

Well, this sounds like it. Considering the odd is set at 49.5 and they won 48 last year, what does this mean ?

The biggest surprise in this writer's eyes is that the Toronto Raptors are projected to win fewer games than only the aforementioned Cavaliers and the Chicago Bulls. While they are an improved team from last season, it's odd that Vegas would project them to do so well.

"Not doing so well" could mean 2 things :

1. Not doing better than last year i.e. being overhyped
2. Doing better but still ending 4th behind the Wizards. Then why does he say "I don't see them doing so well" rather than "I think the Wiz are underrated" ?

[white men can't jump]

Can't agree with you on your thoughts no team is going to bite on Monroe. All you need is one and that team is out there right now. Monore clearly doesn't want to be in Detroit and its best for all to get those who don't want to be part of the program out as fast as you can for both the team and the players sakes. I can see him being moved as early as November for something that will be of immediate value to the Motowners. SVG has the coach and player personnel hats and he will make the best deal he can... Just a couple of hypotheticals ... To Minny for Rubio ? To Boston with filler for Rondo ? Might as well include the Knicks as they have Shumpert and Michigan alumni Hardaway....

Again, it doesn't have to do with teams not wanting Monroe, but rather his contract situation. Any team would be crazy to give up a good asset(s) for him if he can just walk in the summer. Teams with interest can thus just wait and try to sign him for nothing.

Lets go over your hypotheticals...

I don't know why Minny would have interest unless it involved Pek getting moved out. Monroe has shown that so far, he fits better mostly at C than at PF, especially because defensively he so far fits rather poorly beside Cs. Oh, and they probably have the cap space in the summer to pursue him for nothing, and could then re-sign Rubio and add Monroe.

Boston isn't planning on being good this year I don't think, but also have been hording assets. Probably the only way they'd do this deal is if it involved trading a bad contract like Wallace. But I can't see Detroit having any interest in such a scenario. As for Rondo, why trade him for a guy who could walk at the end of the year? And same for Detroit...Is it realistic that they could convince Rondo to stay long-term? Their situation is not really better than the Celtics, is it? That's the problem with Rondo as things stand. So it's not really turning him into a long-term piece if Monroe could walk, which is likely the only deal Ainge would be looking for. And oh yeah, they have cap space next summer too, and could pursue Monroe while trying to re-sign Rondo. Also I don't see Detroit wanting to give up extra assets/money in a Monroe trade, and since his salary is low, that's what would happen with a team like Boston.

If Jackson is at all competent in his new job, there's no way he trades good young players for a guy who can walk at the end of the year. And the Knicks also will have cap space. And it's New York. Why give up pieces when you're one of the premiere free agent destinations? Just wait for the summer.

I just don't see why any team would give up anything decent for Monroe given the situation. Good teams would be unlikely to do so as it would mean giving up parts of their good team for someone who's just possibly a rental. In other words, a good team could make the trade and end up in a net loss on talent going into next year. Not usually how good teams try to operate. Bad teams have no incentive to get a deal done and give up anything valuable. There's no expectation for them to be good this year, and many of them will have cap space. Why give up parts of your rebuilding project for a piece you can just pay for in the summer?

*I'm not saying a trade is impossible, but it'll depend largely on a team getting pretty damn stupid. Otherwise it seems very unlikely that a deal can be worked out where both sides feel like they're benefiting.

[Demographic Shift]

Again, it doesn't have to do with teams not wanting Monroe, but rather his contract situation. Any team would be crazy to give up a good asset(s) for him if he can just walk in the summer. Teams with interest can thus just wait and try to sign him for nothing.

Lets go over your hypotheticals...

I don't know why Minny would have interest unless it involved Pek getting moved out. Monroe has shown that so far, he fits better mostly at C than at PF, especially because defensively he so far fits rather poorly beside Cs. Oh, and they probably have the cap space in the summer to pursue him for nothing, and could then re-sign Rubio and add Monroe.

Boston isn't planning on being good this year I don't think, but also have been hording assets. Probably the only way they'd do this deal is if it involved trading a bad contract like Wallace. But I can't see Detroit having any interest in such a scenario. As for Rondo, why trade him for a guy who could walk at the end of the year? And same for Detroit...Is it realistic that they could convince Rondo to stay long-term? Their situation is not really better than the Celtics, is it? That's the problem with Rondo as things stand. So it's not really turning him into a long-term piece if Monroe could walk, which is likely the only deal Ainge would be looking for. And oh yeah, they have cap space next summer too, and could pursue Monroe while trying to re-sign Rondo. Also I don't see Detroit wanting to give up extra assets/money in a Monroe trade, and since his salary is low, that's what would happen with a team like Boston.

If Jackson is at all competent in his new job, there's no way he trades good young players for a guy who can walk at the end of the year. And the Knicks also will have cap space. And it's New York. Why give up pieces when you're one of the premiere free agent destinations? Just wait for the summer.

I just don't see why any team would give up anything decent for Monroe given the situation. Good teams would be unlikely to do so as it would mean giving up parts of their good team for someone who's just possibly a rental. In other words, a good team could make the trade and end up in a net loss on talent going into next year. Not usually how good teams try to operate. Bad teams have no incentive to get a deal done and give up anything valuable. There's no expectation for them to be good this year, and many of them will have cap space. Why give up parts of your rebuilding project for a piece you can just pay for in the summer?

*I'm not saying a trade is impossible, but it'll depend largely on a team getting pretty damn stupid. Otherwise it seems very unlikely that a deal can be worked out where both sides feel like they're benefiting.

First and foremost love the discussion !

Why do teams do it now instead free agency in July of 15 ? My thoughts are that a GM under pressure to keep a job or to make the playoffs or just some GM who just likes to make a deal for the sake of change (see Colangelo, Bryan) a transaction takes place that helps the Pistons, Monroe and the team he lands with. Diligence would have been done by sounding out Monroes agent that he will sign an extension before the end of the year or if league rules say no, have the gentlemen's agreement in place that he does sign for X dollars over Y term and you get the guy now and aclimate him to your system and players.

I threw NY and Jackson in because they seem to be involved in any and every trade rumour ever mentioned.
Detroit needs a PG so thats why Minny. They aren't in love with Rubio and could play Pek @ 5 and Monroe @4 with Young @ 3 and Bennet swinging between 3 and 4. Would Phoenix part with one of their 4 guards ? NO might part with Jrue Holiday but they have the unibrow and Asik so I guess that'd be long odds.

Lets leave it at that... you think No trade with good logic behind it and I think trade with good logic behind it as well. Agree to disagree.

[DanH]

Not only could a team that acquires Monroe see him walk, they won't even have his Bird Rights, meaning that they would a) need cap room to re-sign him and b) would only be able to offer 4 years, 4.5% raises like everyone else. So there is literally zero advantage to trading for him now except for his impact on this season.

[white men can't jump]

First and foremost love the discussion !

Why do teams do it now instead free agency in July of 15 ? My thoughts are that a GM under pressure to keep a job or to make the playoffs or just some GM who just likes to make a deal for the sake of change (see Colangelo, Bryan) a transaction takes place that helps the Pistons, Monroe and the team he lands with. Diligence would have been done by sounding out Monroes agent that he will sign an extension before the end of the year or if league rules say no, have the gentlemen's agreement in place that he does sign for X dollars over Y term and you get the guy now and aclimate him to your system and players.

I threw NY and Jackson in because they seem to be involved in any and every trade rumour ever mentioned.
Detroit needs a PG so thats why Minny. They aren't in love with Rubio and could play Pek @ 5 and Monroe @4 with Young @ 3 and Bennet swinging between 3 and 4. Would Phoenix part with one of their 4 guards ? NO might part with Jrue Holiday but they have the unibrow and Asik so I guess that'd be long odds.

Lets leave it at that... you think No trade with good logic behind it and I think trade with good logic behind it as well. Agree to disagree.

About an extension, I'm not convinced Monroe signs one no matter the situation. As DanH points out, there's really no advantage a team gains by trading for him in terms of contract negotiations, and that works from Monroe's angle as well. Why commit to signing an extension when you can wait til the summer and have a wider array of options?

And scenarios involving the "gentleman's agreement" are tricky. They could find themselves in a Joe Smith (get penalized for breaking league rules) or Carlos Boozer (lose him to free agency anyway) situation. There basically hasn't been such a situation since Boozer, has there? I think most GMs have learned to avoid them.

It is just such difficult situation to see a realistic trade scenario.

[Puffer]

... So there is literally zero advantage to trading for him now except for his impact on this season.

Not like any GM ever made a trade for it's impact on the current season only.