Trade Market is God Awful - One Piece Away

[thead]

I think Atlanta is in a holding pattern until their ownership sitch is sorted out.

I think the trade route makes sense as it allows us to stay over the cap. Clearing space for a straight up signing doesn't make sense long term.

I think you gauge the interest in resigning with the agent and make a move on, I would say Millsap over Horford for durability issues. But I would take either, and then McHappy is right, we essentially have 3 all stars with a fourth on the way

[Since Day 1]

That is all as possible as any other suggestion.

However if he gets the opportunity to add an all-star calibre player without mortgaging the future, it is something worth at least listening to and considering I would think.

Of course, you listen to every trade proposal.

[Letter N]

The more I read your Horford reasoning, the more I like it. This is the David West to Indiana move that I think we need to go from 1st/2nd round exit to ECF maybe even NBA finals contender.

I don't like the idea of DeMar starting at SF next to a 2 PG lineup though, that's way too small in my opinion. How about this trade?

Atlanta Receives:
Terrence Ross
Amir Johnson
Chuck Hayes
1st Round Pick(s)

Toronto Receives:
Al Horford
Kyle Korver

Start Korver at the 3 spot, I liked the chemistry I saw between him and DeMar with Team USA anyway. While neither DeMar nor Korver are particularly great 1 on 1 defenders, they're both solid team defenders which actually will fit with Casey's schemes pretty nicely. On nights where we're playing a KD or Melo you just give James Johnson (or BRUNOOOOOO) more run.

Korver actually has the size to play SF (he's listed at 6'8 212, but those are his draft numbers and he's much bigger now), and could give us elite 3pt shooting. Imo he is the best catch and shoot three point shooter in the league, made the 5th most 3s per game but at a percentage at least 5% higher than the 4 guys above him (47.2%). He's not gonna disappear from beyond the arc like Ross tends to do, plus he's a pretty good passer and rebounds ok.

Atlanta sheds more salary this way as well. While Korver is owed about 5M per year for the next 3 years, you'd be paying Ross more than that anyway so I don't see it as a huge issue.

Thoughts?

As much as I love Amir and Ross, I would jump for joy if that trade happened.

Horford and Korver!!!
We'd be legit at every position.

[ceez]

what no

[white men can't jump]

I'd rather see a trade for Horford than sign Millsap outright in free agency due to Bird Rights obtained for 2016 and I think Horford is a better player who happens to be a year younger.

I'm warming up to the idea of letting Ross go (I'm wondering if he is going to be more than an inconsistent volume scorer) and losing a 2015 first round pick is also not the end of the world with what appears to be a weak draft (obviously than can change) and Bruno/Bebe already on development watch plus 2 2016 picks due.


Regarding the shooting, Horford is actually a better shooter from long 2 and I have a feeling he would be money from deep if you pair him with a C like JV.

Millsap in 2013/14:
16-3pt: 29.8%
>3pt: 35.7% (212 attempts)

Horford in 2013/14:
16-3pt: 49.6%
>3pt: 36.4% (just 11 attempts)


Obviously Horford's season was cut short so lets look at 2012/13:

Horford in 2012/13:
16-24ft: 42.3%
24ft+: 50% (just 6 attempts)

I've wondered the same about Ross. Just not sure he has the right mentality to maximize his talent. As opposed to DeMar, who I always believed would maximize his talent, just wasn't/am still not sure quite where that caps out...I always thought last season would be roughly the highest level he can reach, but we'll see if he keeps going up.

Anyway, I think for Ross he needs to have a big season, which I guess is obvious. More consistency especially on D, better decision making (he's obviously improved his dribbling, but so far he's just wasted more time before taking tough jumpers), and some growth in his all around offensive game because he doesn't really have an "in-between" game beyond 3s and (mostly open) dunks. Kind of just basing it on gut, but when you see guys like DeMar, Jonas, and even our super young Bruno, they all seem to have the drive you expect from a core piece, and I just don't get that vibe from Ross.

So I wouldn't at all be surprised if he becomes "expendable" this season, especially if a deal for someone like Horford presents himself. Horford might be one of the most underrated players in the league. He has elite intangibles, and low-level all-star tangibles (as in he's a 15+ and 10 guy, not 25 and 12).

[white men can't jump]

Honestly, all of this talk for Al Horford ignores lots of facts:

- he's not really a franchise-player-level guy, but a "second star"
- he'll be expensive
- between Jonas, Amir and PP, our big rotation is pretty solid with room to improve
- did we mention EXPENSIVE

Why is nobody talking about Jeff Green? He can be likely had for relatively cheap, because his final year (next year) is a player option and he'll opt out for TV contract money.

Well, Jeff Green is a worse player. He might fit at SF, and I've thought of him as an option, but would definitely prefer Horford.

As for the expensive part....but how expensive? Especially compared to other options? Lots of people interested in Millsap, but his next contract could match or be higher than Horford's current one. And there's two more seasons before Horford gets a new deal, so it's hard to guess what his next deal is going to be like, and how "expensive" it will seem against rising cap numbers.

[mcHAPPY]

Well, Jeff Green is a worse player. He might fit at SF, and I've thought of him as an option, but would definitely prefer Horford.

As for the expensive part....but how expensive? Especially compared to other options? Lots of people interested in Millsap, but his next contract could match or be higher than Horford's current one. And there's two more seasons before Horford gets a new deal, so it's hard to guess what his next deal is going to be like, and how "expensive" it will seem against rising cap numbers.

Millsap has been underpaid for years.

This is his last big contract more than likely. I don't see him giving a discount and looking for as much $ as possible.

[Cody73]

If we get Horford, who do we get with him? DeMarre Carroll or Kyle Korver? Either can play SF, and I have brought up Carroll before as a option.

[octothorp]

A healthy Horford makes us a legit contender, at least for the eastern conference. I really like Ross, and I continue to believe that 3-and-D guys are one of the most important championship-building pieces. Whether he puts it together this year or next, I think Ross will get there as a player.
But if he needs to be the central piece in acquiring Horford, then you need to make that trade: Horford, Lowry, JV, and DeRozan would form an elite core, and you'd be able to use that and Toronto's still significant cap space to try to lure a starter-calibre 3-and-D wing player to fill out the starters.

[chico]

Slow and steady. Glad that MU is our GM. For all he/we know, Bruno could fill out a lot and be our stretch PF of the future. It would take significant assets to get a Millsap/Horford in a trade, and I don't see MU pulling such a trade this season. Remember, I think he targeted 2015, not 2014, as the year to make a big move. Yes, a good manager is always ready to adapt to changing situations, but the team is still in the process of developing and evaluating a lot of young talent. Unless a "can't turn down" deal arises, I don't see him making a major move this year.

[Since Day 1]

First off, we need to come to the realization Ross is not a SF - he plays one but he isn't.

DD can play SF allowing two PG lineups with Lowry/GV/Williams.

JJ is small forward. You can now keep Hamilton (hypothetically if trade was made before regular season). Fields is still there and a useful defensive player.

Bruno is the real deal in 2 years and Al will be 30. You realize Horford is 28, right? He is 11 months older than Amir.


Horford is a legit all-star when healthy. He pushes the needle.

Bruno is the real deal in 2 years? Do you mean a player who is on an NBA team or a productive player? And Al Horford is as much of an all-star as Antonio Davis was.

[Cody73]

Bruno is the real deal in 2 years? Do you mean a player who is on an NBA team or a productive player? And Al Horford is as much of an all-star as Antonio Davis was.

I think he means a productive player, which if he progresses like we've seen could occur.

[mcHAPPY]

If we get Horford, who do we get with him? DeMarre Carroll or Kyle Korver? Either can play SF, and I have brought up Carroll before as a option.

If you could get Carroll or Korver that would be awesome. I think Carroll is underrated and can play within team. If you're trotting out a Lowry, DD, horford, jv lineup a glue guy is essential.

[white men can't jump]

If we get Horford, who do we get with him? DeMarre Carroll or Kyle Korver? Either can play SF, and I have brought up Carroll before as a option.

Well, assuming that is a choice we face...I'd have a hard time not picking Carroll, especially if his strong 3pt shooting keeps up this season. His defensive ability would just fit in so well at SF.

[DanH]

Whoa, if we get Carroll along with Horford, I am definitely OK with moving Ross in that deal. Carroll is seriously undervalued.