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Trade Market is God Awful - One Piece Away

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  • #46
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    Bump that up to $51M if you include both Millsap's and Carroll's cap holds.. They should have about $14M for a big contract next summer (like Monroe).. but I just don't see a scenario where Atlanta would be willing to keep Monroe, Horford and Millsap.
    Right. My assumption was horford was being traded but just emphasizing they have more than enough cap space to retain Monroe.

    Comment


    • #47
      DanH wrote: View Post
      Sure, but he could still walk for nothing. Why take the risk when for zero risk you can sign him outright next summer?
      Because a healthy horford is worth more than just Monroe. The idea floated of Monroe and fields in exchange for horford is not realistic. Atlanta would likely also get a prospect and pick. Then there is the real risk horford could leave them for nothing too.

      Comment


      • #48
        mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
        Because a healthy horford is worth more than just Monroe. The idea floated of Monroe and fields in exchange for horford is not realistic. Atlanta would likely also get a prospect and pick. Then there is the real risk horford could leave them for nothing too.
        Absolutely. Of course, then Monroe is kind of irrelevant to the deal, or at least secondary. They are better off maximizing expirings/picks and targeting him in free agency.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #49
          DanH wrote: View Post
          In theory, the one upside I can see to a deal for Horford, is if we can keep some of our free agents rather than needing to use cap space. Say the Horford deal is expirings plus Ross plus a pick - but the expirings are Hayes and Hansbrough instead of Amir. Then next summer we can keep the rights to Amir and Lou and go over the cap to keep them both.

          Lowry, GV
          DD, Lou
          JJ, Fields, Caboclo
          Horford, Patterson
          JV, Amir

          And we'd have the full MLE to add a guard or a floor-stretching SF.
          Exactly.

          And in 2016 you can keep DemAr and Horford with bird rights with hopefully bruno ready to start.

          Comment


          • #50
            DanH wrote: View Post
            Absolutely. Of course, then Monroe is kind of irrelevant to the deal, or at least secondary. They are better off maximizing expirings/picks and targeting him in free agency.
            Unless they see value in taking him for a test drive first.

            Comment


            • #51
              Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
              No chance that happens.

              Also, any PF we trade for/sign needs to have a jump shot. If they're our long term PF, a defensive-minded PF that can hit a midrange/three is optimal.

              AKA Ibaka/Bosh type of player.

              No players of that mold that are relatively young are attainable for us, so we need to look at SF for our impact player IMO.
              #Bruno2016 for your SF


              As to the PF that needs a jump shot, how about Al Horford?


              He is not a natural C. His natural position is PF.

              Comment


              • #52
                DanH wrote: View Post
                Millsap, dude. Next summer, free agency.
                I'd rather see a trade for Horford than sign Millsap outright in free agency due to Bird Rights obtained for 2016 and I think Horford is a better player who happens to be a year younger.

                I'm warming up to the idea of letting Ross go (I'm wondering if he is going to be more than an inconsistent volume scorer) and losing a 2015 first round pick is also not the end of the world with what appears to be a weak draft (obviously than can change) and Bruno/Bebe already on development watch plus 2 2016 picks due.


                Regarding the shooting, Horford is actually a better shooter from long 2 and I have a feeling he would be money from deep if you pair him with a C like JV.

                Millsap in 2013/14:
                16-3pt: 29.8%
                >3pt: 35.7% (212 attempts)

                Horford in 2013/14:
                16-3pt: 49.6%
                >3pt: 36.4% (just 11 attempts)


                Obviously Horford's season was cut short so lets look at 2012/13:

                Horford in 2012/13:
                16-24ft: 42.3%
                24ft+: 50% (just 6 attempts)

                Comment


                • #53
                  magoon wrote: View Post
                  Honestly, all of this talk for Al Horford ignores lots of facts:

                  - he's not really a franchise-player-level guy, but a "second star"
                  - he'll be expensive
                  - between Jonas, Amir and PP, our big rotation is pretty solid with room to improve
                  - did we mention EXPENSIVE

                  Why is nobody talking about Jeff Green? He can be likely had for relatively cheap, because his final year (next year) is a player option and he'll opt out for TV contract money.
                  Horford is a 2 time all-star and would be joining a team with 1 all-star already and another player who should have been an all-star and another player who could be an all-star in next 2 seasons (JV).

                  Most good players are expensive.

                  Horford is better than Jonas, Amir, and PP. Jonas, Horford, PP is really good.

                  Yes you mentioned EXPENSIVE.

                  I don't think anyone is talking Jeff Green because he is a tweener and not a real PF/big.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                    #Bruno2016 for your SF


                    As to the PF that needs a jump shot, how about Al Horford?


                    He is not a natural C. His natural position is PF.
                    If we lose Ross and Amir to get Horford, we don't push the needle that much. Plus our SF situation is terrible if that happens.

                    Unless Bruno is your saviour, but I don't think Bruno will be a legit starter before Horford gets too old to be a cornerstone.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                      If we lose Ross and Amir to get Horford, we don't push the needle that much. Plus our SF situation is terrible if that happens.

                      Unless Bruno is your saviour, but I don't think Bruno will be a legit starter before Horford gets too old to be a cornerstone.
                      First off, we need to come to the realization Ross is not a SF - he plays one but he isn't.

                      DD can play SF allowing two PG lineups with Lowry/GV/Williams.

                      JJ is small forward. You can now keep Hamilton (hypothetically if trade was made before regular season). Fields is still there and a useful defensive player.

                      Bruno is the real deal in 2 years and Al will be 30. You realize Horford is 28, right? He is 11 months older than Amir.


                      Horford is a legit all-star when healthy. He pushes the needle.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Masai will not be making any significant trades this year in my opinion. He always does the right thing.

                        You have a team that had the best record in the East last year after the trade and addressed it's weaknesses in the offseason and has gotten even better. (I know other teams have improved as well).

                        After this season we'll have the funds to add a significant piece and improve another position via free agency. This player could put us over the top.

                        If we regress this year and can't sign anyone good next year then we look at trades.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Since Day 1 wrote: View Post
                          Masai will not be making any significant trades this year in my opinion. He always does the right thing.

                          You have a team that had the best record in the East last year after the trade and addressed it's weaknesses in the offseason and has gotten even better. (I know other teams have improved as well).

                          After this season we'll have the funds to add a significant piece and improve another position via free agency. This player could put us over the top.

                          If we regress this year and can't sign anyone good next year then we look at trades.

                          That is all as possible as any other suggestion.

                          However if he gets the opportunity to add an all-star calibre player without mortgaging the future, it is something worth at least listening to and considering I would think.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                            First off, we need to come to the realization Ross is not a SF - he plays one but he isn't.

                            DD can play SF allowing two PG lineups with Lowry/GV/Williams.

                            JJ is small forward. You can now keep Hamilton (hypothetically if trade was made before regular season). Fields is still there and a useful defensive player.

                            Bruno is the real deal in 2 years and Al will be 30. You realize Horford is 28, right? He is 11 months older than Amir.


                            Horford is a legit all-star when healthy. He pushes the needle.
                            The more I read your Horford reasoning, the more I like it. This is the David West to Indiana move that I think we need to go from 1st/2nd round exit to ECF maybe even NBA finals contender.

                            I don't like the idea of DeMar starting at SF next to a 2 PG lineup though, that's way too small in my opinion. How about this trade?

                            Atlanta Receives:
                            Terrence Ross
                            Amir Johnson
                            Chuck Hayes
                            1st Round Pick(s)

                            Toronto Receives:
                            Al Horford
                            Kyle Korver

                            Start Korver at the 3 spot, I liked the chemistry I saw between him and DeMar with Team USA anyway. While neither DeMar nor Korver are particularly great 1 on 1 defenders, they're both solid team defenders which actually will fit with Casey's schemes pretty nicely. On nights where we're playing a KD or Melo you just give James Johnson (or BRUNOOOOOO) more run.

                            Korver actually has the size to play SF (he's listed at 6'8 212, but those are his draft numbers and he's much bigger now), and could give us elite 3pt shooting. Imo he is the best catch and shoot three point shooter in the league, made the 5th most 3s per game but at a percentage at least 5% higher than the 4 guys above him (47.2%). He's not gonna disappear from beyond the arc like Ross tends to do, plus he's a pretty good passer and rebounds ok.

                            Atlanta sheds more salary this way as well. While Korver is owed about 5M per year for the next 3 years, you'd be paying Ross more than that anyway so I don't see it as a huge issue.

                            Thoughts?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
                              The more I read your Horford reasoning, the more I like it. This is the David West to Indiana move that I think we need to go from 1st/2nd round exit to ECF maybe even NBA finals contender.

                              I don't like the idea of DeMar starting at SF next to a 2 PG lineup though, that's way too small in my opinion. How about this trade?

                              Atlanta Receives:
                              Terrence Ross
                              Amir Johnson
                              Chuck Hayes
                              1st Round Pick(s)

                              Toronto Receives:
                              Al Horford
                              Kyle Korver

                              Start Korver at the 3 spot, I liked the chemistry I saw between him and DeMar with Team USA anyway. While neither DeMar nor Korver are particularly great 1 on 1 defenders, they're both solid team defenders which actually will fit with Casey's schemes pretty nicely. On nights where we're playing a KD or Melo you just give James Johnson (or BRUNOOOOOO) more run.

                              Korver actually has the size to play SF (he's listed at 6'8 212, but those are his draft numbers and he's much bigger now), and could give us elite 3pt shooting. Imo he is the best catch and shoot three point shooter in the league, made the 5th most 3s per game but at a percentage at least 5% higher than the 4 guys above him (47.2%). He's not gonna disappear from beyond the arc like Ross tends to do, plus he's a pretty good passer and rebounds ok.

                              Atlanta sheds more salary this way as well. While Korver is owed about 5M per year for the next 3 years, you'd be paying Ross more than that anyway so I don't see it as a huge issue.

                              Thoughts?
                              That 2 PG lineup is not a starting lineup in my mind but would see about 15-18mins per game.

                              As for the trade, I think Toronto would have to give up more than that. Korver and Horford are really good and productive players.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
                                The more I read your Horford reasoning, the more I like it. This is the David West to Indiana move that I think we need to go from 1st/2nd round exit to ECF maybe even NBA finals contender.

                                I don't like the idea of DeMar starting at SF next to a 2 PG lineup though, that's way too small in my opinion. How about this trade?

                                Atlanta Receives:
                                Terrence Ross
                                Amir Johnson
                                Chuck Hayes
                                1st Round Pick(s)

                                Toronto Receives:
                                Al Horford
                                Kyle Korver

                                Start Korver at the 3 spot, I liked the chemistry I saw between him and DeMar with Team USA anyway. While neither DeMar nor Korver are particularly great 1 on 1 defenders, they're both solid team defenders which actually will fit with Casey's schemes pretty nicely. On nights where we're playing a KD or Melo you just give James Johnson (or BRUNOOOOOO) more run.

                                Korver actually has the size to play SF (he's listed at 6'8 212, but those are his draft numbers and he's much bigger now), and could give us elite 3pt shooting. Imo he is the best catch and shoot three point shooter in the league, made the 5th most 3s per game but at a percentage at least 5% higher than the 4 guys above him (47.2%). He's not gonna disappear from beyond the arc like Ross tends to do, plus he's a pretty good passer and rebounds ok.

                                Atlanta sheds more salary this way as well. While Korver is owed about 5M per year for the next 3 years, you'd be paying Ross more than that anyway so I don't see it as a huge issue.

                                Thoughts?
                                Suggest more ballast from Toronto for the $ to be reasonable. Since TO is picking up salaries long term. Only 1 pick in 2016 ( T.O.) pick. Fields?

                                KL , GV
                                DD, Lou , Jordan Hamilton
                                Korver, JJ, Bruno
                                Horford, Patterson, Hansborough
                                JV, steemer, BeBe

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