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  • Resting Players?

    So, the Raptors have so much depth, especially at the 1, 2 and 3 positions, so I'm wondering if the best way to ultimately use that depth is to use the Spurs model of only playing most of their major players about 72 games each.

    Ultimately, having Lowry and Amir Johnson in particular play less games is probably a benefit for both the playoffs this year and their long term health if the Raptors are truly invested in having all these players as long term pieces.

    How bad is it to start Vazquez and/or Patterson for 10 games a year? The team will still be able to win a percentage of those. Resting Amir is a bigger problem, because that leaves Patterson as your only playable forward for those games, but you have the option of going super small against the right teams and playing James Johnson at the 4 for stretches of time.

    I think it might be an idea worth looking into, even if the fans won't be happy if Lowry or DeRozan sit for a home game.
    That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

  • #2
    I think its a great idea, and if Toronto's top players and their agents don't mind stats getting hit a bit, then it will workout fantastically.

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    • #3
      I don't think it's very likely at all. I think it's more likely we rest guys when they have a playable injury (I'm looking at you, Amir), but in general not really for other scenarios. The Spurs really do the same thing. The only guys they give some extra rest to are their oldest players (Duncan still played 74 games last year), but otherwise everyone else plays if they're healthy.

      What the Spurs do well though is distributing minutes, but I don't think the Raps are deep enough or have a strong enough system to cut everyone's averages below 30mpg. Still though, I'd like to not see anyone over 35-36 mpg this season.

      *The strength of system thing also applies to why it'd be hard to rest guys voluntarily....The skills/roles of our players don't overlap very well, so resting guys can totally change our gameplan, whereas the Spurs have a lot more interchangeability between pieces.

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      • #4
        I don't think it's necessary. Yes, we're a "deep" team, but the impact of DeRozan, Lowry, Jonas, etc. can't be replaced by our bench.

        Our core is still young. Playing 30-35 mpg shouldn't kill them.

        But I can understand giving Amir a few nights off, considering he has a history of ankle issues.

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        • #5
          I think the rest will be able to come from less of a load during some games and extended rest during blowouts.
          Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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          • #6
            Nilanka wrote: View Post
            I don't think it's necessary. Yes, we're a "deep" team, but the impact of DeRozan, Lowry, Jonas, etc. can't be replaced by our bench.

            Our core is still young. Playing 30-35 mpg shouldn't kill them.

            But I can understand giving Amir a few nights off, considering he has a history of ankle issues.
            Jonas will be tough to rest, because there's no other real viable option playing his position.

            For the young players, it depends on how invested you are about their future. 5 years from now, maybe you want a DeRozan who's been playing 85% as much as a typical player in terms of having less mileage on his legs.

            In individual games, the dropoff between Lowry and Vazquez isn't huge. Depending on the game, you maybe drop your win probability by an average of say, 10%. Over the course of the year, that adds up quick. Over 10 games, not a discernible difference, especially if the Raptors look like they're locked into one of those top 4 spots anyways.
            That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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            • #7
              Other Scott wrote: View Post
              Jonas will be tough to rest, because there's no other real viable option playing his position.

              For the young players, it depends on how invested you are about their future. 5 years from now, maybe you want a DeRozan who's been playing 85% as much as a typical player in terms of having less mileage on his legs.

              In individual games, the dropoff between Lowry and Vazquez isn't huge. Depending on the game, you maybe drop your win probability by an average of say, 10%. Over the course of the year, that adds up quick. Over 10 games, not a discernible difference, especially if the Raptors look like they're locked into one of those top 4 spots anyways.
              Locking up one of the top 4 spots likely won't become obvious until the latter half of the season. By then, sure, let's rest some guys before the grind of the playoffs.

              But I'd rather not see healthy starters have nights off in December.

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              • #8
                I'll agree with that.
                That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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                • #9
                  I'd only rest them if we've secured the 4th seed or 3rd seed
                  "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                  • #10
                    MACK11 wrote: View Post
                    I'd only rest them if we've secured the 4th seed or 3rd seed
                    But I wouldn't go that far either. I think we can be comfortable with the standing in January without having locked in the seed. Otherwise, it wouldn't really be resting any more than 2 or 3 games, which is pretty standard practice.
                    That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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                    • #11
                      Other Scott wrote: View Post
                      Resting Amir is a bigger problem, because that leaves Patterson as your only playable forward for those games
                      Hansbrough could easily either start or back up Patterson. Coach Casey expects his guards to do the bulk of the scoring, in any case.

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                      • #12
                        It can, but only for Lowry and Amir who are quite injury prone, as both are needed healthy in the playoffs. Demar and the rest should be okay as they are younger. I would rather hope that this new bench can actually hold a blowout lead without the starters having to come back to finish the job.

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                        • #13
                          I'm one of those guys that is SHOCKED that there aren't more coaches/teams following Popovich's model, and treating the regular season as training for the playoffs.

                          One of the reasons why the Spurs have 'depth' is because Popovich CREATES depth, by going deep into his bench, practicing all kinds of line-ups and giving his reserves lots of minutes and experience during the regular season. The difference in energy level and health between the Spurs and other teams last during the playoffs was obvious.

                          Does anyone else think you could get away with starting Patterson and Hayes/Hansborough against Philly and the Celtics this year? I absolutely do. That's 8 games off for JV and Amir right there. Hell, sit Lowry, too. The last thing you need is Lowry twisting an ankle because he's being defended by a rookie in try-hard mode (Marcus Smart) for a Celtics team that's going to lose 75% of their games.

                          There's already rumors that Blatt is going to try to restrict Lebron to 72 games this year.
                          Last edited by bryan colangelo; Fri Oct 24, 2014, 05:38 AM.

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                          • #14
                            bryan colangelo wrote: View Post
                            I'm one of those guys that is SHOCKED that there aren't more coaches/teams following Popovich's model, and treating the regular season as training for the playoffs.

                            One of the reasons why the Spurs have 'depth' is because Popovich CREATES depth, by going deep into his bench, practicing all kinds of line-ups and giving his reserves lots of minutes and experience during the regular season. The difference in energy level and health between the Spurs and other teams last during the playoffs was obvious.

                            Does anyone else think you could get away with starting Patterson and Hayes/Hansborough against Philly and the Celtics this year? I absolutely do. That's 8 games off for JV and Amir right there. Hell, sit Lowry, too. The last thing you need is Lowry twisting an ankle because he's being defended by a rookie in try-hard mode (Marcus Smart) for a Celtics team that's going to lose 75% of their games.

                            There's already rumors that Blatt is going to try to restrict Lebron to 72 games this year.
                            Yet many fans here scream about Casey going deep into the bench, and practicing all kinds of line-ups. hmmm. And if you look at 2013-14, MPs of Raps players beyond 9 man rotation is very similar to the Spurs beyond 9 man rotation. hmmm, and Casey gets tons of flack.

                            Starting PP and Hands vs Celtics and Philly? No way on earth do you sit JV and Amir unless late in the season and playoff spot is locked in. I don't care how bad a team is, there are no gimmes in the NBA. As bad as they were, both Philly and Boston were 2-1 vs Miami last year.

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                            • #15
                              chico wrote: View Post
                              Yet many fans here scream about Casey going deep into the bench, and practicing all kinds of line-ups. hmmm. And if you look at 2013-14, MPs of Raps players beyond 9 man rotation is very similar to the Spurs beyond 9 man rotation. hmmm, and Casey gets tons of flack.

                              Starting PP and Hands vs Celtics and Philly? No way on earth do you sit JV and Amir unless late in the season and playoff spot is locked in. I don't care how bad a team is, there are no gimmes in the NBA. As bad as they were, both Philly and Boston were 2-1 vs Miami last year.
                              Your second paragraph explains your first paragraph.

                              We are not a top 5 team in the NBA, and far from a lock to win 50+ games every year. Dropping a game due to resting players hurts us A LOT more than it hurts a team like the Spurs or Cavs or Clippers.

                              You crawl, then you walk, then you run....then once you perfect that you can sit down and strategize how to save energy for the final leg of a marathon.

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