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  • #31
    007 wrote: View Post
    I think Millsap is the best replacement we could have at PF.

    Amir or Millsap Masai! Make it happen!
    Milsapppp would be dreamy

    but if we had to pay Amir $10 million, I would honestly prefer to see Tristan Thompson with even $11M

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    • #32
      MACK11 wrote: View Post
      Sure go ahead and think DeMar is gonna sacrifice about 9mill per. Also where's LeBron? Where's wade?
      Players sacrifice when they know they have a fantastic chance to win it. Also DeMar has been under payed for this contract so you better believe he wants to get PAID on his upcoming contract
      Demar isn't underpaid just because he's not overpaid. So many guys are overpaid that it makes you think an overpay is fair value. Demar has only played 1 season under his new contract and I think most people would agree he's getting paid fair value money.
      Also, who is going to pay Amir 10mil per? His ankles are made of glass and he's in his tenth season.. and people know this.
      You come at the King, you best not miss.

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      • #33
        1. If the Raps lose Amir, they'll feel it on the defensive end. He's easily their most important defensive player and while limited offensively, he's extremely efficient at that end, can draw his man at least 15 feet from the basket, and is one of the best players in the league finishing around the basket. He also sets the best screens on the team, has great hands for a big, and is the defensive anchor (did I say that already?). Everyone who says something like "He's hardly even starter quality" does not know basketball. Point blank. Stop reading box scores.

        2. Amir's production may well drop off due to wonky ankles, but you don't project something like that into a lowball salary offer. You never find a player saying "You're right, in the second half of this contract my production might drop off because I might have another injury and you might want to pay me a few million less. I'll take that." Or he might finish his career like Grant Hill with a great run of health. Guys get paid for what they just accomplished in the previous season or two - they do not get paid for what they might be doing in 2 or 3 years.

        3. I love the idea of a Millsap/JV/PP front court, but I'd be worried about the defensive end. Not sure the Raps could be a top 10 defensive team with that frontcourt. Horford/JV/PP would be a dream come true.

        4. The salary cap is going way up, which everybody knows, and is about to start being reflected in salaries. Amir Johnson should, and will, get paid A LOT more than 6 or 7 million per, barring a terrible injury this season.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • #34
          S.R. wrote: View Post
          1. If the Raps lose Amir, they'll feel it on the defensive end. He's easily their most important defensive player and while limited offensively, he's extremely efficient at that end, can draw his man at least 15 feet from the basket, and is one of the best players in the league finishing around the basket. He also sets the best screens on the team, has great hands for a big, and is the defensive anchor (did I say that already?). Everyone who says something like "He's hardly even starter quality" does not know basketball. Point blank. Stop reading box scores.
          That's a very strong statement. But I must admit, his touch around the basket is indeed admirable. Personally, his lower body strength really worries me. I've seen him miss many rebounding opportunities and it seems he is injury prone.

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          • #35
            S.R. wrote: View Post
            1. If the Raps lose Amir, they'll feel it on the defensive end. He's easily their most important defensive player and while limited offensively, he's extremely efficient at that end, can draw his man at least 15 feet from the basket, and 1is one of the best players in the league finishing around the basket. He also sets the best screens on the team, has great hands for a big, and is the defensive anchor (did I say that already?). Everyone who says something like "He's hardly even starter quality" does not know basketball. Point blank. Stop reading box scores.

            2. Amir's production may well drop off due to wonky ankles, but you don't project something like that into a lowball salary offer. You never find a player saying "You're right, in the second half of this contract my production might drop off because I might have another injury and you might want to pay me a few million less. I'll take that." Or he might finish his career like Grant Hill with a great run of health. Guys get paid for what they just accomplished in the previous season or two - they do not get paid for what they might be doing in 2 or 3 years.

            3. I love the idea of a Millsap/JV/PP front court, but I'd be worried about the defensive end. Not sure the Raps could be a top 10 defensive team with that frontcourt. Horford/JV/PP would be a dream come true.

            4. The salary cap is going way up, which everybody knows, and is about to start being reflected in salaries. Amir Johnson should, and will, get paid A LOT more than 6 or 7 million per, barring a terrible injury this season.
            I find that when someone makes statements like the one I bolded, they are essentially saying "I know more than you" they lose credibility in my mind. Amir has had a great opportunity in Toronto to show what he is, he has been an average starter who has never been able to play over 30 minutes per game and has questionable durability (he does play through it though). I think most, if not all Raptor fans appreciate Amir, many of us just feel that we could use an upgrade at the starting 4 in order to take the next step, the same can be said about our 3 spot.

            I am not on the Millsap bandwagon, he does not seem like the player we need, I will need to do some digging on who I would really target....and that we would have a chance to get.
            Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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            • #36
              MACK11 wrote: View Post
              Obviously nobody knows exactly what DeMar wants except for himself but if you think he's signing for the cheap your mistaken. If players like Parsons and Hayward are getting max deals how can Masai tell DeMar he's not getting a max?
              masai can't of course. they negotiate, there are no absolutes. Even a million or half a million under the max isn't the max and could make a difference for the cap.

              i thought rookie salaries were set and then first max contracts were set, followed by a percentage based on time in league. Is that not how it works?

              Comment


              • #37
                Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                Demar isn't underpaid just because he's not overpaid. So many guys are overpaid that it makes you think an overpay is fair value. Demar has only played 1 season under his new contract and I think most people would agree he's getting paid fair value money.
                Also, who is going to pay Amir 10mil per? His ankles are made of glass and he's in his tenth season.. and people know this.
                Whos gonna pa Amir 10mill per? Maybe the same GM who paid Channing frye 8 mil per or the GM that paid Jordan hill 9mil per or the GM who paid Jodie meeks 7mil per.....

                and Demar is a 12mil type of player but we all know nobody gets paid what they deserve they get paid by what they can negotiate and DD will have plenty of firepower during the negotiations like NBA allstar(maybe twice), Team USA member, his season averages etc
                "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                • #38
                  WJF wrote: View Post
                  I find that when someone makes statements like the one I bolded, they are essentially saying "I know more than you" they lose credibility in my mind.

                  I will need to do some digging on who I would really target....and that we would have a chance to get.
                  agreed.

                  i like tristan but don't think he can play along side val. i think that is where millsap would fit very well.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Triplethreat89 wrote: View Post
                    Milsapppp would be dreamy

                    but if we had to pay Amir $10 million, I would honestly prefer to see Tristan Thompson with even $11M
                    There's nothing that TT does better than or equally as Amir.
                    Paying TT 11mil per would be a disaster

                    Also we will have zero rim protection if we replace Amir with TT.
                    Jonas isn't ready yet to be the anchor for this team

                    Opponent's FG% at the rim
                    Amir - 47.9% (One of the best) on 7.5 attempts per game
                    TT - 58.0% (One of the worst) on 5.2 attempts per game
                    "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                      I don't think Horford really demands the ball as much as you seem to think. After Atlanta destroyed their old treadmill roster, his shot attempts and usage went up over the last 2 seasons...but his efficiency and productivity were pretty much just as good before that putting up 10ish shots on fairly low usage (never cracked over 20% until the team was dismantled). Obviously he'd demand more than Amir, but it would probably not really affect DeMar or Lowry....it should affect whoever remains at SF, and if that's Ross, I have no problem with some of his usage going to Horford.

                      Also, if that worries you with Horford, it would probably be at least as bad with Millsap or Monroe. Not like either of those guys are low-USG players. And while Millsap can shoot, he tends to do a lot of his scoring on-the-ball, not off it. And I just don't like Monroe. Still not sold on him as a PF in today's NBA, especially defensively.

                      Oh, and random, but for whoever hasn't checked it, there's a thread with a good read on our medical staff and their preventative approach. The part about "soft tissue injuries" made me think of how good it would be for Horford and his weird history of torn pecs to be here in Toronto.
                      You make some good points.. when Smith and Johnson were on the roster, Horford wasn't needing the ball as much. I guess I'm just scared of a team looking like the Rudy Gay team from early last year (not implying that Horford is a chucker, but that one player can really affect team chemistry, especially one that is good at offense).

                      I like what JV can do on offense.. he's ubber efficient. And if you get someone like Horford/Millsap or Monroe (and I really don't want Monroe by the way), then JV will get even less touches.

                      Personally I'm in favour of upgrading the SF spot over the PF spot. I heard San Antonio is having doubts in giving Kawhi a max extension.. I'd be willing to give him the max if the Spurs aren't.

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                      • #41
                        Millsap seems to be the flavour of the day, but I'm not confident he moves the needle very much, especially considering the culture of the team has become defense first, which is exactly where Amir comes in to the mix on this team. That said, of course you make a move if it upgrades the TEAM, but the organization would have to be very careful in their handling of Amir. He's a big part of the 3 headed monster called the heart of this team (Lowry, DeMar, Amir), and it's my belief that it would take a huge upgrade for Masai to mess with that.

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                        • #42
                          I feel like Amir is our quintessential glue player, like Nick Collison or something. I wouldn't want to get rid of him, I just get the vibe the players rely on him a lot, just try and get a better starting PF so he can be an energy guy off the bench.

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                          • #43
                            WJF wrote: View Post
                            I find that when someone makes statements like the one I bolded, they are essentially saying "I know more than you" they lose credibility in my mind. Amir has had a great opportunity in Toronto to show what he is, he has been an average starter who has never been able to play over 30 minutes per game and has questionable durability (he does play through it though). I think most, if not all Raptor fans appreciate Amir, many of us just feel that we could use an upgrade at the starting 4 in order to take the next step, the same can be said about our 3 spot.

                            I am not on the Millsap bandwagon, he does not seem like the player we need, I will need to do some digging on who I would really target....and that we would have a chance to get.
                            Bold 1: I don't really care if you judge credibility based on tone (that's quite Canadian of you), but I'd suggest basing it on content instead. I thought twice about what I typed in that statement and I wouldn't change a thing.

                            Bold 2: I completely agree with that statement, but it isn't what I referred to, which is comments in this thread (and ones I've seen before on RR) claiming that Amir Johnson is "barely a starter" or "not a starter on a good team" or "should be a bench player" etc. Of course if you have an All-Star PF you'll be starting him in front of Amir, but many championship teams have had glue guys in the starting lineup similar to Amir, and some less talented than Amir. If you don't think he's a starting calibre player in the NBA, you need to stop reading box scores and learn the game. That's the truth.

                            How about some "credible" sources about Amir's impact:

                            - E.Koreen (Apr. 2013): "Over the last two years, the Raptors have a 52-91 record. When he has been off the court, they have allowed 571 more points than they have scored. When he has been on the court, the Raptors are plus-170. Those numbers stopped being a coincidence a long time ago." & “You have to be willing to leave your guy knowing that sometimes another guy might forget his assignment and your guy might end up scoring,” Raptors centre Aaron Gray said of team defence. “That happens a lot, and you go, ‘OK, I’m going to stop helping other guys because they’re not helping me and it makes me look bad.’ With Amir, he knows how to play the game the right way. He doesn’t care who gets the credit. He’s going to make the right play every time. He’s going to try to do the right thing and continue to hope people have his back like he has ours.”

                            - Z. Lowe (Jan. 2014): "Amir Johnson’s contract looks downright good now."

                            And then I got tired of Googling articles I can vaguely remember reading, lol. But I've never seen a knowledgeable sports writer, player, coach, etc. knock Amir Johnson. The theme when commenting on him is virtually always "people don't realize how much he does on the floor." Then you have the occasional RR fan saying he's probably not even a starter. I stand by my original comment.

                            Also, I'm still dreaming about a Horford/JV/PP frontcourt. It's possible to recognize Amir's talent AND talk about upgrading the roster. This is not an either/or that requires over-criticizing current players.
                            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                            • #44
                              Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                              agreed.

                              i like tristan but don't think he can play along side val. i think that is where millsap would fit very well.
                              Tristan is a bad defender right now.. could be because he was playing for a bad defensive team in Cleveland. Until he improves on that side of the ball.. he's not a guy I'd be interested in.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                planetmars wrote: View Post
                                Tristan is a bad defender right now.. could be because he was playing for a bad defensive team in Cleveland. Until he improves on that side of the ball.. he's not a guy I'd be interested in.
                                Me either. If Tristan wasn't Canadian, I don't think he'd be on any Raptor fan's radar.

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