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  • #16
    Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
    All I was asking was IS there any downside to offering the contract and what our cap situation would look like.
    There's no downside really imo.

    ~15-16M a year for:

    - A highly efficient 15ppg
    - 7-8 rebounds per game from the SF spot
    - Ability to defend four positions at an elite level
    - Great three-point shooting and spacing particularly from the corners
    - A momentum shifting block and a couple steals per game
    - Only 23 years old

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    • #17
      NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
      There's no downside really imo.

      ~15-16M a year for:

      - A highly efficient 15ppg
      - 7-8 rebounds per game from the SF spot
      - Ability to defend four positions at an elite level
      - Great three-point shooting and spacing particularly from the corners
      - A momentum shifting block and a couple steals per game
      - Only 23 years old
      Exactly and if the spurs match, then at least we tried
      "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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      • #18
        Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
        Did you even read the thread?

        I clearly stated San Antonio's not dumb enough to let him walk but there's a minuscule chance, and we lose nothing by trying.

        Everyone here knows Kawhi's a great player. No one mentioned getting Lebron. No one here thinks that realistically we'll land Leonard. My poin was there's no harm in trying.

        Move along with your condescending posts.
        Don't disagree with trying, but the bolded is NOT what you stated. You said maybe the Spurs are dumb enough, though not nearly as dumb as Houston. When you use that premise as a basis for your argument, you're almost inviting sarcasm. If you had worded it differently (ie without using the Spurs and dumb in the same sentence), the feedback would probably had been less derisive.
        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

        Comment


        • #19
          Scraptor wrote: View Post
          San Antonio is going to give Leonard the max, and Leonard has said he expects to remain in San Antonio his whole career.

          http://www.48minutesofhell.com/for-k...st-since-day-1

          I suggest you guys read this. The odds of us landing Leonard are less than 5% imo. Same goes for Jimmy Buckets. All-defensive wings don't grow on trees and neither organization is stupid enough to let them walk.

          Parsons was a different situation as he was an unrestricted free agent.

          Leonard, Butler, Tobias Harris.... these guys are no longer buy-low candidates. If we want to steal away young pieces we have to do it BEFORE they break out.
          Neither franchise is dumb, but one is notoriously cheap.

          Butler wouldn't come easy, but I think it would be possible to steal him from the Bulls in free agency.

          Dumb and frugal don't have to go hand-in-hand, and can be independent of one another.

          Even with the increased salary cap space, Chicago could potentially be scared away with a contract that would be decent/fair value for Butler under the new economic landscape.
          http://twitter.com/m_shantz

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          • #20
            Scraptor wrote: View Post
            San Antonio is going to give Leonard the max, and Leonard has said he expects to remain in San Antonio his whole career.

            http://www.48minutesofhell.com/for-k...st-since-day-1

            I suggest you guys read this. The odds of us landing Leonard are less than 5% imo. Same goes for Jimmy Buckets. All-defensive wings don't grow on trees and neither organization is stupid enough to let them walk.

            Parsons was a different situation as he was an unrestricted free agent.

            Leonard, Butler, Tobias Harris.... these guys are no longer buy-low candidates. If we want to steal away young pieces we have to do it BEFORE they break out.
            I'm not so big on Harris. I think he has lots of talent, and he's so young he will get better. But at the moment I see a guy developing into a somewhat volume scorer, who rebounds pretty well. I have not been impressed by his D in the few chances I've had to see him, nor in his overall game.

            I'm not very convinced of his fit with this Raptors core....where I think guys like Leonard, Butler, or for a cheaper option, Demarre Carroll would all be great fits at SF with their defensive ability, and are all good enough offensive players who fit naturally at SF.

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            • #21
              I know he's not as good as Kawhi, but someone who would fit great in our system beside Lowry and Ross is MKG.

              He is still a work in progress and has consistently been injured, but the dude is going to be very good...if his shot gets figured out (and the improvements seen this season are incredible already) we are talking Igoudala-levels of production.

              Comment


              • #22
                Scraptor wrote: View Post
                San Antonio is going to give Leonard the max, and Leonard has said he expects to remain in San Antonio his whole career.

                http://www.48minutesofhell.com/for-k...st-since-day-1

                I suggest you guys read this. The odds of us landing Leonard are less than 5% imo. Same goes for Jimmy Buckets. All-defensive wings don't grow on trees and neither organization is stupid enough to let them walk.

                Parsons was a different situation as he was an unrestricted free agent.

                Leonard, Butler, Tobias Harris.... these guys are no longer buy-low candidates. If we want to steal away young pieces we have to do it BEFORE they break out.
                Even if it is a 5% chance, all it does to us is screw our cap situation for an entire three days, so it's completely worth it, even if it fails. The only thing that would stop us from trying is if we Masai had some plan to get an impact player elsewhere.

                Comment


                • #23
                  OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                  I know he's not as good as Kawhi, but someone who would fit great in our system beside Lowry and Ross is MKG.

                  He is still a work in progress and has consistently been injured, but the dude is going to be very good...if his shot gets figured out (and the improvements seen this season are incredible already) we are talking Igoudala-levels of production.
                  So you want to replace DeRozan with MKG?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    NaijaBoy17 wrote: View Post
                    So you want to replace DeRozan with MKG?
                    Yes and no.

                    Yes if he gets healthy and finds his shot.

                    No if neither of those happen

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I want to target proven people, especially those that are unrestricted, b/c they are in their prime and they won't be matched neccessarily by their previous team.

                      Right now, Kawhi and Jimmy Butler look like players that look good because they play for a certain coach in a certain system.

                      Thibs is a great defensive coach, and a lot of his players look good defensively while in Chicago, but when they leave, they don't live up to their reputation.
                      Example: Luol Deng when he went to Cleveland.

                      Poppovich also has makes a lot of regular players look good too in the same way. To be honest, Leonard is a project. His shooting is suspect and his ball handling isn't really there for a max player. He can't exactly create his own shot, and he is living off a good series with Miami.

                      Realistically, I want to go after proven names, like Kevin Love, Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol or trade for someone like Iguodala.
                      Those 3 players are not a byproduct of their coach, but good basketball players and could fit well here.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        2kfeen wrote: View Post
                        I want to target proven people, especially those that are unrestricted, b/c they are in their prime and they won't be matched neccessarily by their previous team.

                        Right now, Kawhi and Jimmy Butler look like players that look good because they play for a certain coach in a certain system.

                        Thibs is a great defensive coach, and a lot of his players look good defensively while in Chicago, but when they leave, they don't live up to their reputation.
                        Example: Luol Deng when he went to Cleveland.

                        Poppovich also has makes a lot of regular players look good too in the same way. To be honest, Leonard is a project. His shooting is suspect and his ball handling isn't really there for a max player. He can't exactly create his own shot, and he is living off a good series with Miami.

                        Realistically, I want to go after proven names, like Kevin Love, Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol or trade for someone like Iguodala.
                        Those 3 players are not a byproduct of their coach, but good basketball players and could fit well here.
                        If OKC panics abt KD free agency in 2016 they would try to ship him before he walks next summer...and the season they are having is adding fuel to that fire. So if we could sign Marc Gasol and turn around and use Val+DD and all the picks to get KD that would be my dream Free Agency!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Greg Monroe would be a terrible pick up. Love and Gasol will be out of our price range. Millsap might be available. Butler could probably be had by overpaying (max money). Kawhi will be matched for sure.

                          But keep in mind any big free agency get means losing Amir, so really we should only be looking at PF's. Unless we can swing a deal for a PF (assuming we are looking for a Horford type, would probably require moving DeMar), in which case we'd need to target a wing in free agency.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • #28
                            Mindlessness wrote: View Post
                            Even if it is a 5% chance, all it does to us is screw our cap situation for an entire three days, so it's completely worth it, even if it fails. The only thing that would stop us from trying is if we Masai had some plan to get an impact player elsewhere.
                            Yeah, that's the issue. To be honest I think it's even a smaller chance, like under 1%, and the downside is that it might tie our hands and keep us from going after more attainable targets. I think one of the major lessons from the Rockets' free agency this year was that they wasted a lot of time going after Melo (and to a lesser extent, Bosh) when they could have put the full court press on Kyle and other free agents, and a faster resolution might have also helped them re-secure Parsons.

                            I'd much rather have a say 30% shot at getting someone like Millsap than a minuscule chance at prying Leonard away.

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                            • #29
                              2kfeen wrote: View Post

                              Right now, Kawhi and Jimmy Butler look like players that look good because they play for a certain coach in a certain system.

                              Thibs is a great defensive coach, and a lot of his players look good defensively while in Chicago, but when they leave, they don't live up to their reputation.
                              Example: Luol Deng when he went to Cleveland.

                              Poppovich also has makes a lot of regular players look good too in the same way. To be honest, Leonard is a project. His shooting is suspect and his ball handling isn't really there for a max player. He can't exactly create his own shot, and he is living off a good series with Miami.
                              Solid point. Like guys who played for Jerry Sloan, e.g. Boozer and D-Will. Or guys who played in D'Antoni's system, e.g. Amare, Lin, Fields. Or guys who played for SVG in Orlando, e.g. Hedo, Rashard Lewis, etc...

                              There are some coaches and systems that make certain players look better than they are. When you're talking about giving guys like Leonard and Butler max contracts, then that's a definite risk and concern.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                2kfeen wrote: View Post
                                I want to target proven people, especially those that are unrestricted, b/c they are in their prime and they won't be matched neccessarily by their previous team.

                                Right now, Kawhi and Jimmy Butler look like players that look good because they play for a certain coach in a certain system.

                                Thibs is a great defensive coach, and a lot of his players look good defensively while in Chicago, but when they leave, they don't live up to their reputation.
                                Example: Luol Deng when he went to Cleveland.

                                Poppovich also has makes a lot of regular players look good too in the same way. To be honest, Leonard is a project. His shooting is suspect and his ball handling isn't really there for a max player. He can't exactly create his own shot, and he is living off a good series with Miami.

                                Realistically, I want to go after proven names, like Kevin Love, Greg Monroe, Marc Gasol or trade for someone like Iguodala.
                                Those 3 players are not a byproduct of their coach, but good basketball players and could fit well here.
                                golden wrote: View Post
                                Solid point. Like guys who played for Jerry Sloan, e.g. Boozer and D-Will. Or guys who played in D'Antoni's system, e.g. Amare, Lin, Fields. Or guys who played for SVG in Orlando, e.g. Hedo, Rashard Lewis, etc...

                                There are some coaches and systems that make certain players look better than they are. When you're talking about giving guys like Leonard and Butler max contracts, then that's a definite risk and concern.
                                It's not just a matter of the coach, but also the opportunity.

                                I really liked Leonard in his draft, but not at the position the Raptors were drafting at (I was hoping to acquire a mid-late 1st round pick to grab him). However, with the benefit of hindsight, I really don't think he would have developed into the player his is today, if Toronto (or any of many other bad teams) had drafted him. Not only do the Spurs have a great coach, but their roster also provided him the perfect opportunity to develop into the role he currently fills. Had Toronto drafted him, I guarantee he would have been expected (by GM, coaching staff, media and fans) to do so much more, due to both his draft position and team need. The Spurs had the luxury of bringing him along slowly, in a narrowly defined role, on a team with impressive veteran leadership (on the court, during practice and in the locker room). Rondo is another player that comes to mind when thinking along these lines, where Boston became a 'perfect storm' for him to develop into one of the league's top PGs; I don't think that happens if he gets drafted by almost any other team, or if Boston doesn't make the subsequent moves to build their super-team.

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