Game #11: Memphis Grizzlies 92 - Toronto Raptors 96

[KeonClark]

He's making a very valid point though. Memphis, even missing those guys last night, is still probably a better team than any team in the East, except maybe (and just maybe) a healthy Chicago team.

If we beat any top team in the East healthy, would you view it as a fail? If not, then why view this game as a fail?

Is it as good as beating Memphis at 100%? No. But it's certainly nothing close to a fail.

Exactly. Plus we didnt have early raptor near mvp jj, who has had an impact at least close to tony Allen. They still had their big 3. The top of the roster is the biggest thing in the nba its not even close to the same as when we barely beat he ravaged thunder.

People should be nothing but happy for this win. Remember a couple years back when we played every team close but then narrowly lost practically every time? That's how it is in the nba. Most games end up super close, but the good teams find a way to narrowly win and the bad teams find a way to narrowly lose.

[Axel]

Feel free to continue telling me how to think and moving goal posts of discussion.

I'm not telling anyone how to think, but you keep insisting that it's only a win with rose colored glasses when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Memphis with Conley, ZBo and Gasol are better than everyone in the east, but we managed the win and thats a good thing. Celebrate then get back to work for Milwaukee.

Hopefully for mchappy's sake, the Grizz players are really sick and can't play on Sunday either vs the Clippers so we have a real barometer to guage their team by (Friday night in Boston shouldn't be too hard for them).

[KeonClark]

So its a fail because guys were sick? How is that our fault? Matt, would you have only been happy if we won by 15 or more? Because nobody is blowing out Randolph gasol and Conley, i dont care how many role players are sick.

[chico]

A couple of ending snipits from William Lou's front page article today seems appropriate:

"What we don’t need, as a fanbase, is to be constantly put into place for being excited. We don’t need condescending reminder of the team’s flaws. Yeah, we know. We watch every friggin’ game. Have you seen the comment boards after games? It’s littered with critiques and nitpicks."

"I can’t speak for everyone here, but I’d rather be excited about found money than I would be bitterly gripping about how my income can’t reliably come from change off the street."

[KeonClark]

A couple of ending snipits from William Lou's front page article today seems appropriate:

"What we don’t need, as a fanbase, is to be constantly put into place for being excited. We don’t need condescending reminder of the team’s flaws. Yeah, we know. We watch every friggin’ game. Have you seen the comment boards after games? It’s littered with critiques and nitpicks."

"I can’t speak for everyone here, but I’d rather be excited about found money than I would be bitterly gripping about how my income can’t reliably come from change off the street."

Exactly! We all know we're not championship ready or the best team in the league. But who thought we would be? We're very good, getting better, and play above how our roster looks on paper. So what exactly is peoples issue?

[mcHAPPY]

A couple of ending snipits from William Lou's front page article today seems appropriate:

"What we don’t need, as a fanbase, is to be constantly put into place for being excited. We don’t need condescending reminder of the team’s flaws. Yeah, we know. We watch every friggin’ game. Have you seen the comment boards after games? It’s littered with critiques and nitpicks."

"I can’t speak for everyone here, but I’d rather be excited about found money than I would be bitterly gripping about how my income can’t reliably come from change off the street."

The delicious, hypocritical irony that the same poster put up these two posts, the one above and this:

Perhaps you could be specific about what's getting old, because the beauty of a public forum is that it doesn't belong to a single train of thought. Posters should be aware, and accept, that any opinion or proposal that they express, is open to rebuttal. It's part of the territory, whether the subject is critical or praise in nature. If all parties accept that, there's growth to be had on both sides of the equation. Would you want it any other way?

People I'm very excited about the Raptors. This is the best basketball in years. However I'm tempering expectations and being super critical because the flaws and inconsistencies I'm seeing are what separate good teams from multiple round playoff teams. If you want a circle jerk over 11 games keep a spot warm for me until late December and I hope to join in at that time.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

A couple of ending snipits from William Lou's front page article today seems appropriate:

"What we don’t need, as a fanbase, is to be constantly put into place for being excited. We don’t need condescending reminder of the team’s flaws. Yeah, we know. We watch every friggin’ game. Have you seen the comment boards after games? It’s littered with critiques and nitpicks."

"I can’t speak for everyone here, but I’d rather be excited about found money than I would be bitterly gripping about how my income can’t reliably come from change off the street."

I get what you (and others) are saying, but the stuff that's being pointed out is no different from the stuff Jack talks about constantly during the game. I'm sure it's the same stuff the coaching staff talks about in practice and while reviewing the game footage.

I think increased critiquing comes with increased expectations...

In the past, Raptors fans were thrilled with any victory. Today, this Raptors team is actually becoming a truly good team with an even brighter future ahead (assuming young players develop and extra draft picks pan out, etc...), so just winning isn't enough.

In the past, we were arguing about whether the Raptors should adopt the Spurs model or the OKC model for team-building. Today, we're arguing about how the team should play to beat the Spurs or OKC.

In the past, we pondered being in a multi-team dogfight for 8th in the EC. Today, we're trying to determine which teams can be good enough to compete with us for 1st in the EC.


I enjoy every game and savor every win. I also like to put on my GM and head coach hat, to try to figure out what the team can/should do to continue raising the bar, with a championship as the goal - that's why we're on the forum and not just 'liking' the Raptors on Facebook, right?

The critiquing doesn't come from hate or negativity; it comes from hope - something that this team has experienced only once or twice in its 20 year existence!

[white men can't jump]

The delicious, hypocritical irony that the same poster put up these two posts, the one above and this:




People I'm very excited about the Raptors. This is the best basketball in years. However I'm tempering expectations and being super critical because the flaws and inconsistencies I'm seeing are what separate good teams from multiple round playoff teams. If you want a circle jerk over 11 games keep a spot warm for me until late December and I hope to join in at that time.

How is it a circle jerk to be happy about a win over a good team and a 9-2 start? A win which you said should count as a loss, which seems pretty damn ridiculous. That goes a bit beyond being super critical. Again, Memphis is a good team even with the guys they were missing. No one's calling the Raptors title favourites or anything, just giving them credit for a hard fought win against a top tier team in the league.

If to you it feels like we're having a circle jerk over these 11 games, to us it's like you're hooking your balls up to electrodes. "No! No! it's not good enough..!! (*zap*zap*)"

[mcHAPPY]

How is it a circle jerk to be happy about a win over a good team and a 9-2 start? A win which you said should count as a loss, which seems pretty damn ridiculous. That goes a bit beyond being super critical. Again, Memphis is a good team even with the guys they were missing. No one's calling the Raptors title favourites or anything, just giving them credit for a hard fought win against a top tier team in the league.

If to you it feels like we're having a circle jerk over these 11 games, to us it's like you're hooking your balls up to electrodes. "No! No! it's not good enough..!! (*zap*zap*)"

Not a loss, a fail. Fail might be too harsh - disappointment considering they won. Miami and Chicago were fails.

They deserve credit for a hard fought win against a depleted top team - no question.

You'll have to excuse me for tempering my excitement with a come from behind win against a team missing starter and best wing defender, 6th man and 2nd best wing defender, back up PG, and back up C.

I'm going to agree to disagree at this point. Good day.

[Scraptor]

"What we don’t need, as a fanbase, is to be constantly put into place for being excited. We don’t need condescending reminder of the team’s flaws. Yeah, we know. We watch every friggin’ game. Have you seen the comment boards after games? It’s littered with critiques and nitpicks."

"I can’t speak for everyone here, but I’d rather be excited about found money than I would be bitterly gripping about how my income can’t reliably come from change off the street."

Reminder[S] and GRIPING, not gripping.

/s

[chico]

The delicious, hypocritical irony that the same poster put up these two posts, the one above and this:




People I'm very excited about the Raptors. This is the best basketball in years. However I'm tempering expectations and being super critical because the flaws and inconsistencies I'm seeing are what separate good teams from multiple round playoff teams. If you want a circle jerk over 11 games keep a spot warm for me until late December and I hope to join in at that time.

Best ya got are condescending cheap shots? lol, keep jerking alone over calling a hard fought win, against #1, a fail. Gawd, your bitter, man.

[mcHAPPY]

Best ya got are condescending cheap shots? lol, keep jerking alone over calling a hard fought win, against #1, a fail

Where is the condescending cheap shot? You're a hypocrite. The above shows that quite clearly.

[S.R.]

I would recommend checking the preconceived notions that have plagued these boards. The bowls is the type of simplified complaint ignores the very root of criticism levied.

The raptors have come a long way and the raptors do have the means to go a lot farther - who is denying that?

But to simply sit back and ignore any criticism or discussion because the team is 9-2 speaks to your desire for a fan club and not a fan forum.

I think you missed this in my op:

It's not that I disagree with the criticisms re: the limitations of individual players or the coaching staff, it's that the criticisms completely lack any perspective.

And this:

This team is young. This team is growing. This team is still making mistakes. This team has been considerably better each of the four years Casey's been here. Ujiri isn't finished. There's still growth, development, and roster moves to be made. In the meantime, these guys are first place in the Eastern Conference, just beat the first place Western Conference team, and has a 9-2 record to start the year, THE BEST START THIS FRANCHISE HAS HAD IN ITS 20 YEAR HISTORY.

I'm no rah-rah glass-half-full guy. I'd consider myself pretty pessimistic, actually, but the overreaction to individual game performances this early in a year that overall has started better than any other year in the past 20 years is out to lunch, frankly.

All around the league this team is being recognized as a legitimate up and coming team. They just made their first national broadcast south of the border in 13 years.

Yes, they have flaws as a team and as individuals. Yes, let's discuss what needs to happen to get better. But do so with some sense of context and perspective.

Even excuses like the Memphis win "doesn't count" because they had guys out, but the Miami loss does count even though the Raps had a miserable free throw night (even if their FT's were slightly below average, they would have one that game), and somehow the Chicago game is a great harbinger of ruin even though everybody not named DeRozan had a very good first half and a solid fourth quarter - the Bulls essentially won only the third quarter, but this game was some kind of disaster for Toronto? I mean the Bulls are years ahead of the Raps in team-building, they're in the midst of reintegrating a league MVP and a first-ballot Hall of Famer, the Raps are fielding ONE NBA All-Star, but when the Raps lose a quarter to them it's the end of all things and we need to fire the coach and trade ________ (name whoever you want) immediately because it's a sh*t storm of smoke and mirrors. Honestly, it's overreacting.

I know posts like this one are annoying - my apologies. I need to vent.

[mcHAPPY]

I think you missed this in my op:

It's not that I disagree with the criticisms re: the limitations of individual players or the coaching staff, it's that the criticisms completely lack any perspective.

And this:

This team is young. This team is growing. This team is still making mistakes. This team has been considerably better each of the four years Casey's been here. Ujiri isn't finished. There's still growth, development, and roster moves to be made. In the meantime, these guys are first place in the Eastern Conference, just beat the first place Western Conference team, and has a 9-2 record to start the year, THE BEST START THIS FRANCHISE HAS HAD IN ITS 20 YEAR HISTORY.

I'm no rah-rah glass-half-full guy. I'd consider myself pretty pessimistic, actually, but the overreaction to individual game performances this early in a year that overall has started better than any other year in the past 20 years is out to lunch, frankly.

All around the league this team is being recognized as a legitimate up and coming team. They just made their first national broadcast south of the border in 13 years.

Yes, they have flaws as a team and as individuals. Yes, let's discuss what needs to happen to get better. But do so with some sense of context and perspective.

Even excuses like the Memphis win "doesn't count" because they had guys out, but the Miami loss does count even though the Raps had a miserable free throw night (even if their FT's were slightly below average, they would have one that game), and somehow the Chicago game is a great harbinger of ruin even though everybody not named DeRozan had a very good first half and a solid fourth quarter - the Bulls essentially won only the third quarter, but this game was some kind of disaster for Toronto? I mean the Bulls are years ahead of the Raps in team-building, they're in the midst of reintegrating a league MVP and a first-ballot Hall of Famer, the Raps are fielding ONE NBA All-Star, but when the Raps lose a quarter to them it's the end of all things and we need to fire the coach and trade ________ (name whoever you want) immediately because it's a sh*t storm of smoke and mirrors. Honestly, it's overreacting.

I know posts like this one are annoying - my apologies. I need to vent.

Vent away.

You raise a lot of good points.

[mcHAPPY]

As someone who routinely questions Casey I don't think he is getting enough credit. Going with and sticking with Hayes was the deciding factor in this game.