Faried Rumours

[magoon]

Guys, it's effectively impossible for us to trade for Faried. He's been given an extension, which means we'd have to be able to absorb the average of his salary right now plus over the length of his extension - that's about $10m. But the Nuggets can only take back his current salary, which is about $3.5m. So we'd need to find a third team to dump salary on - the Sixers or whatever - and now we're looking to bribe both the Sixers and the Nuggets to be able to get him. We've already traded away our second-round picks for 2015 and 2016, so basically we'd be looking at first-rounders (or possibly Bruno).

Is Kenneth Faried worth that? No. He's a good offensive power forward, but we need a two-way PF and Faried, to be blunt, doesn't play defense.

Let someone else buy high on Faried.

[raptors999]

MU being the Ex-GM probably kills any Denver trades. Can't get shafted by the guy you fired.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Guys, it's effectively impossible for us to trade for Faried. He's been given an extension, which means we'd have to be able to absorb the average of his salary right now plus over the length of his extension - that's about $10m. But the Nuggets can only take back his current salary, which is about $3.5m. So we'd need to find a third team to dump salary on - the Sixers or whatever - and now we're looking to bribe both the Sixers and the Nuggets to be able to get him. We've already traded away our second-round picks for 2015 and 2016, so basically we'd be looking at first-rounders (or possibly Bruno).

Is Kenneth Faried worth that? No. He's a good offensive power forward, but we need a two-way PF and Faried, to be blunt, doesn't play defense.

Let someone else buy high on Faried.

I was messing around on the TradeMachine and the only one I could get to work was:

Amir & Fields & Hayes - Faried & McGee & Robinson

If Denver wanted a huge salary dump and cap space this offseason, along with 1 or 2 1st round picks, it could work. McGee would actually be a great shot-blocking backup for JV and Robinson would be a veteran 3rd PG.

I still don't really believe the rumor.

[Flubbery]

Not sure if Faried is what we need right now in the front court. i think we should looking for more of a skilled big man with decent size.

Anyway if anything, Masai should know if Faried would be a good fit here or not.

[DanH]

Guys, it's effectively impossible for us to trade for Faried. He's been given an extension, which means we'd have to be able to absorb the average of his salary right now plus over the length of his extension - that's about $10m. But the Nuggets can only take back his current salary, which is about $3.5m. So we'd need to find a third team to dump salary on - the Sixers or whatever - and now we're looking to bribe both the Sixers and the Nuggets to be able to get him. We've already traded away our second-round picks for 2015 and 2016, so basically we'd be looking at first-rounders (or possibly Bruno).

Is Kenneth Faried worth that? No. He's a good offensive power forward, but we need a two-way PF and Faried, to be blunt, doesn't play defense.

Let someone else buy high on Faried.

The other option is to expand the deal, like CRF does above, so that the 25% cushion on trades is enough to fit the difference between his two apparent salaries. They have some interesting pieces, beyond Faried.

[caccia]

He's a good offensive power forward, but we need a two-way PF and Faried, to be blunt, doesn't play defense.

The entire Denver team still seems to lack in defence, since they are giving up 106.5 points per game: a typical run-and-gun Nuggets team, except they are getting outrun and out-gunned this season. That makes it hard to assess Faried's defensive capabilities. He does pull in 7.5 total rebounds per game, and he was highest on the national team at 7.8, but half of the latter boards were offensive rebounds. His current defensive +/- is .8 or not great.

[Azor Ahai]

Not sure if Faried is what we need right now in the front court. i think we should looking for more of a skilled big man with decent size.

Anyway if anything, Masai should know if Faried would be a good fit here or not.

I agree. I'm not sure Faried really moves the needle much for us.

[psrs1]

You guys are really that high on Faried? I haven't much of the nuggets but I've heard he's not a very good defender. More of a hustle guy then anything else. I don't think I'd trade for him.

He was awesome this past summer for USA basketball.

[2kfeen]

Nah I dont want him

Right now, from our bigs we need a combination of

- tough interior defense
- ability to defend other bigs
- ability to help effectively on defense
- post up action
- rebounding

if we are trading for faried, we are losing a lot of cap space and he doesnt move the needle that much

-- he's a great rebounder, but his post game is primitive at best and on defense, he doesnt have the length to guard bigs or even be an elite shotblocker on guards.

we need an Al Horford type of guy, or Greg Monroe perhaps, or Serge Ibaka or maybe Paul Milsap
- All of these guys move the needle, and give us a different element that can take us to the next level

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Nah I dont want him

Right now, from our bigs we need a combination of

- tough interior defense
- ability to defend other bigs
- ability to help effectively on defense
- post up action
- rebounding

if we are trading for faried, we are losing a lot of cap space and he doesnt move the needle that much

-- he's a great rebounder, but his post game is primitive at best and on defense, he doesnt have the length to guard bigs or even be an elite shotblocker on guards.

we need an Al Horford type of guy, or Greg Monroe perhaps, or Serge Ibaka or maybe Paul Milsap
- All of these guys move the needle, and give us a different element that can take us to the next level

If the Raps could get Faried in a high-value trade, might he become a coveted trade chip to use to acquire the type of PF that is more aligned with the Raps' needs? Even if Faried isn't an ideal fit for Toronto, or doesn't significantly move the needle as an upgrade from Amir, I would think his trade value (younger, signed long-term, huge hype, etc..) would far surpass Amir's. It's as much about acquiring valuable assets, as it is immediately improving the team.

[2kfeen]

If the Raps could get Faried in a high-value trade, might he become a coveted trade chip to use to acquire the type of PF that is more aligned with the Raps' needs? Even if Faried isn't an ideal fit for Toronto, or doesn't significantly move the needle as an upgrade from Amir, I would think his trade value (younger, signed long-term, huge hype, etc..) would far surpass Amir's. It's as much about acquiring valuable assets, as it is immediately improving the team.

would you rather be cap-strapped for a couple of years by trading for a guy that isnt a game changer?
or would you keep the cap space and sign a game changer outright?
We have space to target Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, Lamarcus Aldrdige, Marc Gasol

and if we cant get those guys, then at least we can get the 2nd tier free agents that are still better than Faried, like Greg Monroe, Millsap, etc.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

would you rather be cap-strapped for a couple of years by trading for a guy that isnt a game changer?
or would you keep the cap space and sign a game changer outright?
We have space to target Kevin Durant, Kevin Love, Lamarcus Aldrdige, Marc Gasol

and if we cant get those guys, then at least we can get the 2nd tier free agents that are still better than Faried, like Greg Monroe, Millsap, etc.

I just came up with a trade that worked, I wasn't necessarily pushing for it.

I'm not sure that simply waiting for free agency two years from now, especially focusing on pie-in-the-sky type targets, is any better a strategy. It's all about improving, both on the court and in terms of asset accumulation.

[Bendit]

I thought I'd put this link here since it discusses the Faried rumours, GM Connelly's moves and their previous GM our very own MU and his supposed blame in constructing their current roster.


http://www.denverstiffs.com/2014/11/...denver-nuggets

To that end, your struggling Denver Nuggets have enjoyed a banner bad news cycle over the last 72 hours, with ESPN's Kevin Arnovitz writing a piece about Tim Connelly and the Nuggets front office that was less-than-flattering at best, and terrifying at worst. Our own mothership, SB Nation, followed that piece up with a few thoughts from Tom Ziller, making sure to lay some of the blame at the feet of Masai Ujiri and the previous front office as well.

Is it this bad? Is the sky truly falling on Nuggets Nation?

Well... maybe.

Let's address a few of the key points brought up by both articles. I'll do my best to leave my opinions out of it, and only deal in the facts we know. Additionally, no insult is meant to Mssrs. Arnovitz or Ziller, I am a fan of both of their work, and have found them to be well-thought, and well-respected. Still, let's synthesize a few of their most polarizing positions, and then see what we actually know.

Position 1 (Arnovitz - ESPN): Tim Connelly is outside his depth

Supporting arguments: The Kenneth Faried contract was originally reported as something outside the limits of the CBA. Unnamed sources report that the Nuggets front office have proposed other deals around the league which also do not fit inside current CBA limitations. This has fostered the opinion amongst unnamed league compatriots that Connelly is outside his depth.

What we know: Though the Faried deal was originally leaked as something outside CBA bounds, many early reports vacillated between a Denver error and a possible loophole the Nuggets may have found. When that loophole/mistake/typo was denied by the league, a CBA-appropriate deal was made so quickly that one might wonder if it had also been negotiated prior to reports. At best, the jury is out on whether the deal was accidental or not. Now, if the latter statement (the Nuggets regularly propose non-kosher deals) is true, then this item is fairly damaging to the Nuggets front office. I'm not sure Connelly's head would roll over such a thing, but his capologist sure might want to freshen up that resume.

But is Connelly in over his head, as many have made him out to be? Though several outlets scratched their heads over his moves at the beginning of last season, he was on the job for less than a month when those signings took place, and many were defensible in real time (J.J. Hickson? Signed after Darrell Arthur, when there were rumors of Faried's departure. Randy Foye? In theory, a veteran and steadying influence for a young Evan Fournier). Connelly's draft this season was widely regarded as excellent, and the Fournier/Arron Afflalo trade wasn't blasted via the media either (prior to the Nuggets slow start).

I'm not arguing Connelly walks on water, or is even good. I'm saying that there's very little data to suggest he's as lost as Arnovitz's article makes him out to be, and the jury is still out on TC. I've said so here before, but his draft this year was nothing shy of sly, in my humble opinion.

Position 2 (Arnovitz - ESPN): The Denver Nuggets organization, particularly Brian Shaw, are not crazy about Kenneth Faried

Supporting arguments: Faried's game does not work for the organization's direction, and there are reported personality conflicts amongst Faried and the team, both players and others.

What we know: Well... nothing, actually. Arnovitz's sources are unnamed, but it's highly doubtful he'd risk his career and reputation over a Nuggets article, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt here. Several fans have also seen Shaw get after Faried after poor play and lazy possessions. The Manimal's defense does not seem to fit Shaw's prototype, and by many reports, Faried came back from his successful time with Team USA with a sizeable chip on his shoulder regarding his game and star status. Boy, maybe this one is the truth... where there's smoke, there's fire, right?

Not necessarily. Faried and Shaw are both passionate and dedicated individuals. Neither of them have impugned each other in the press, and both have readily admitted their need to grow and mature in their roles when it comes to their young careers. Do they need to have sleepovers when they're not working together? Many coach/player tandems have had great success without holding hands and skipping along the way.

Again, Arnovitz may be dead on... but there's not a ton of data beyond those sources to suggest that the animosity exists, or if it does, that it's souring their ability to work together. Given the successes Faried, Shaw, and the Nuggets organization have had in the past by trying to come to terms, it seems possible (even likely) that any interpersonal wrinkles can be ironed out. If their takes on the game don't match over the long run, it doesn't make Faried's signing a mistake, it simply makes him the wrong guy for the Nuggets. There's still value there for someone, and it will be the job of this front office to get it.

Position 3 (Ziller - SB Nation): Masai Ujiri is equally responsible for the Nuggets current pupu platter, if not moreso:

Supporting arguments: Ujiri is responsible for four of the five "worst" contracts on the Nuggets roster, including the "albatross" that is JaVale McGee's deal.

What we know: Hindsight is always such a beautiful thing. I'm not necessarily pro- or anti-Ujiri, but it's much easier to leap on McGee's contract after a couple years of less-than-ideal growth and injuries than it was to do so right as the contract was signed... not long after McGee had two eye-popping games against the Los Angeles Lakers in the playoffs. While McGee has not progressed as anyone might have hoped, his deal is not outside the bounds of what a hoped-for prospect he was for the team.

Ziller also mentions the contract of Danilo Gallinari as a faux pas by Ujiri, along with the contracts of Ty Lawson and Wilson Chandler, citing each of their injuries and injury histories as a pattern of poor decisions on the previous front office's part. While I'll try not to be flippant, I can point you to national columns lauding each deal as good/intelligent when they were signed. If anyone were able to choose only players to sign who would never be injured, they'd have a leg up on being a very successful GM (and a psychic). Ujiri did happen to walk away from all these "poor" decisions with an Executive of the Year award, so take that into consideration, please.

Position 4: Ujiri's roster (Ziller - SB Nation) is still in play, and is doing diddly-squat for these current Nuggets:

Supporting arguments: This one is simple. Most of this roster was brought in by Ujiri, and the Nuggets currently suck (hyperbole, just making the article's point).

What we know: Ujiri signed this roster to play a certain way. The Nuggets are trying to change how they play. Asking someone to do their job differently is not always the smoothest process. Especially as a twenty-something doing it on a national stage nightly.

Are some of the things Arnovitz and Ziller report true and accurate? Quite probably. They are solid writers with good reputations amongst the community. But the Nuggets recent move from the middle to the bottom of the league has garnered them more national attention from the press this past week than they've seen in quite some time.

While all of the negativity may not be true, probably some of it is, and that's more than enough to stir a pot, isn't it? We're all clicking (and clacking) over it, and that was surely the bigger purpose over the long haul. Even good journalists are looking for the tale that titillates... And that tends to involve bad news.

But before you're sure the sky is falling, make sure that was actually a cloud that just hit you in the head.

[Shantz]

I thought I'd put this link here since it discusses the Faried rumours, GM Connelly's moves and their previous GM our very own MU and his supposed blame in constructing their current roster.


http://www.denverstiffs.com/2014/11/...denver-nuggets

I do understand that Ujiri brought in the majority of the Nuggets team, but he also built that roster with George Karl in mind, and had Iguodala on the roster when they won. The lost their GM, Coach, and arguably most important player, all at once. Ujiri is not to blame for those things.

Ujiri brought the puzzle pieces together in Denver, but that doesn't mean you can heap the blame on him when Sam Kroenke loses a couple of the pieces and tries to mash the rest together with a hammer.

He must carry some of the blame. It's nice to see some support shine through in the retort above.

[Bendit]

I do understand that Ujiri brought in the majority of the Nuggets team, but he also built that roster with George Karl in mind, and had Iguodala on the roster when they won. The lost their GM, Coach, and arguably most important player, all at once. Ujiri is not to blame for those things.

Ujiri brought the puzzle pieces together in Denver, but that doesn't mean you can heap the blame on him when Sam Kroenke loses a couple of the pieces and tries to mash the rest together with a hammer.

He must carry some of the blame. It's nice to see some support shine through in the retort above.

Agreed. And that would be Josh Kroenke...or were u being sarcastic ?

A similar logic (in reverse) has been applied to the makeup of the Raptors with re to it being a creation of Colangelo....without mentioning of course that 2 of the biggest impediments were traded away (with good-great return) by MU and then by design or not the pieces coming back from SAC really made the team it is today....including a performance by Hayes last night who is normally a bench fixture. All to say, the moment the new guy's regime starts to tinker nevermind hiring a new coach and losing Iggy (who might have stayed if MU were still there)....it's your baby now. Just as the Raps are MU's now.