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The Raptors and the 2015 Draft
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Has anyone noticed how complete and utter shit the top end of the draft has been the last 2 years?
Look at the lottery and then look at who is actually contributing:
Andrew Wiggins SG/SF Canada Cleveland Cavaliers Kansas (Fr.)
Jabari Parker SF United States Milwaukee Bucks Duke (Fr.)
Joel Embiid# C Cameroon Philadelphia 76ers Kansas (Fr.)
Aaron Gordon PF United States Orlando Magic Arizona (Fr.)
Dante Exum PG/SG Australia Utah Jazz Australian Institute of Sport[n 5]
Marcus Smart PG United States Boston Celtics Oklahoma State (So.)
Julius Randle PF United States Los Angeles Lakers Kentucky (Fr.)
Nik Stauskas SG Canada Sacramento Kings Michigan (So.)
Noah Vonleh PF United States Charlotte Hornets (from Detroit)[A] Indiana (Fr.)
Elfrid Payton PG United States Philadelphia 76ers (from New Orleans,[B] traded to Orlando)[a] Louisiana–Lafayette (Jr.)
Doug McDermott SF United States Denver Nuggets (traded to Chicago)[b] Creighton (Sr.)
Dario Å arić# SF/PF Croatia Orlando Magic (from New York via Denver,[C] traded to Philadelphia)[a] Cibona Zagreb (Croatia)[n 6]
Zach LaVine SG United States Minnesota Timberwolves UCLA (Fr.)
T. J. Warren SF United States Phoenix Suns North Carolina State (So.)
The best rookie this year was a 2011 draft pick (Mirotic).
Look at the 2013 draft and compare the lottery (1-14) to the next 14 picks (15-28).
The last 2 years have not been kind to shitty teams.
Raptors, and we as fans, have really lucked out..... Masai has acknowledged this as well.
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Mack North wrote: View PostThat's crazy... so in about 9 years he could be playing with or against his dad if Bron Bron is still playing. That would be pretty neat...Axel wrote:Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!KeonClark wrote:We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.KeonClark wrote:I can't wait until the playoffs start.
Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink
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mcHAPPY wrote: View PostHas anyone noticed how complete and utter shit the top end of the draft has been the last 2 years?
Look at the lottery and then look at who is actually contributing:
Andrew Wiggins
Jabari Parker
Joel Embiid
Aaron Gordon
Dante Exum
Marcus Smart
Julius Randle
Nik Stauskas
Noah Vonleh
Elfrid Payton
Doug McDermott
Dario Å aric
Zach LaVine
T. J. Warren
The best rookie this year was a 2011 draft pick (Mirotic).
Look at the 2013 draft and compare the lottery (1-14) to the next 14 picks (15-28).
The last 2 years have not been kind to shitty teams.
Raptors, and we as fans, have really lucked out..... Masai has acknowledged this as well.
2013 draft was a weak one and was known and recognized as a weak draft.
Out of these 14 guys, Parker, Embiid, Gordon and Randle cannot be judged because of injury so far.
Saric was stashed.
Vonleh suffered an injury in the offseason and never caught up, and was always deemed a project.
That's 6 out of the 14 knocked out.
Wiggins, Payton and Smart are undoubtedly performing (Smart was injured for a while too).
McDermott hasn't gotten minutes because he plays on a very deep Chicago team, and probably won't get many minutes at all this year.
Warren hasn't gotten minutes for the same reason, he plays behind Green, Morris and Tucker on a team that plays very small with multiple PG's out all the time.
That leaves Exum, Stauskas and LaVine. I don't think any of them aren't playing great but I don't think they're playing too bad either.
It's way too early man
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Bonus Jonas wrote: View PostUnfair statement.
2013 draft was a weak one and was known and recognized as a weak draft.
Out of these 14 guys, Parker, Embiid, Gordon and Randle cannot be judged because of injury so far.
Saric was stashed.
Vonleh suffered an injury in the offseason and never caught up, and was always deemed a project.
That's 6 out of the 14 knocked out.
Wiggins, Payton and Smart are undoubtedly performing (Smart was injured for a while too).
McDermott hasn't gotten minutes because he plays on a very deep Chicago team, and probably won't get many minutes at all this year.
Warren hasn't gotten minutes for the same reason, he plays behind Green, Morris and Tucker on a team that plays very small with multiple PG's out all the time.
That leaves Exum, Stauskas and LaVine. I don't think any of them aren't playing great but I don't think they're playing too bad either.
It's way too early man
There was a time when the expectation would be for lottery picks to perform early because they were suppose to be more talented.
2014 was hyped as multiple franchise players, best since 2003.
Go check Lebrons, Melos, Bosh's, and Wades rookie years.
These guys were impact full immediately and that is my point.
The last two years drafts have not produced any impactful players out of the gate.
For teams and fans intentionally losing that is a double kick in the testicles.
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mcHAPPY wrote: View PostI disagree.
There was a time when the expectation would be for lottery picks to perform early because they were suppose to be more talented.
2014 was hyped as multiple franchise players, best since 2003.
Go check Lebrons, Melos, Bosh's, and Wades rookie years.
These guys were impact full immediately and that is my point.
The last two years drafts have not produced any impactful players out of the gate.
For teams and fans intentionally losing that is a double kick in the testicles.
Carmelo 21.0 ppg, 6.1rpg in 36.5 minutes and 28.5% USG (31.7% career average)
Wade 16.2 ppg, 4.5 apg, 4.0 rpg in 34.9 minutes and 25.0% USG (32.0% career average)
Lebron 20.9 ppg, 5.9 apg, 5.5 rpg in 39.5 minutes and 28.2% USG (31.6% career average)
Wiggins 13.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg in 31.3 minutes on 21.5% USG
Payton 6.6 ppg, 5.2 apg, 3.3 rpg in 25.3 minutes on 19.0% USG
Smart 5.4 ppg, 2.2 apg, 2.2 rpg in 18.7 minutes on 16.1% USG
Parker 12.3 ppg, 5.5 rpg in 29.5 mpg on 20.7% USG
Wade, Melo and Lebron were full impact on their rookie years because they were fed the ball non stop and used a ridiculous amount of their team's possessions. Their usage rates are all near their career average and they all played around 36 mpg. Don't know why you mentioned Bosh as he had a rookie year that was more like the rookie years players have now (USG very low, less minutes, stats not that high). Raise the 4 bottom players minutes and run their respective offenses through them and they'd be putting up crazy stats too but teams realize that's not a great way to develop players.
Also you just nitpicked the 4 sure fire Hall of Famers from the '03 draft and stacked them up with guys that we've only seen for about 30 games. Not too fair.
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Bonus Jonas wrote: View PostBosh 11.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg in 33.5 minutes and 18.3% USG (24.5% career average)
Carmelo 21.0 ppg, 6.1rpg in 36.5 minutes and 28.5% USG (31.7% career average)
Wade 16.2 ppg, 4.5 apg, 4.0 rpg in 34.9 minutes and 25.0% USG (32.0% career average)
Lebron 20.9 ppg, 5.9 apg, 5.5 rpg in 39.5 minutes and 28.2% USG (31.6% career average)
Wiggins 13.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg in 31.3 minutes on 21.5% USG
Payton 6.6 ppg, 5.2 apg, 3.3 rpg in 25.3 minutes on 19.0% USG
Smart 5.4 ppg, 2.2 apg, 2.2 rpg in 18.7 minutes on 16.1% USG
Parker 12.3 ppg, 5.5 rpg in 29.5 mpg on 20.7% USG
Wade, Melo and Lebron were full impact on their rookie years because they were fed the ball non stop and used a ridiculous amount of their team's possessions. Their usage rates are all near their career average and they all played around 36 mpg. Don't know why you mentioned Bosh as he had a rookie year that was more like the rookie years players have now (USG very low, less minutes, stats not that high). Raise the 4 bottom players minutes and run their respective offenses through them and they'd be putting up crazy stats too but teams realize that's not a great way to develop players.
Also you just nitpicked the 4 sure fire Hall of Famers from the '03 draft and stacked them up with guys that we've only seen for about 30 games. Not too fair.
Because they aren't that good.
When 2014 was hyped as best draft since 2003, it is very fair I think.
Your stats only confirm my point: the last two drafts have been dreadful.
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I read that using one of the many basketball statistics out there (it might have been Basketball WAR) that Wiggins has been the worst player in the league this year. That's kind of an unfair thing, because there are players much worse than Wiggins who aren't given lots of playing time and usage because they are the "future of the team", but it still isn't a good sign.That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.
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Really disliking the 1 and done NBA player... most rookies are going to suck in the NBA unless they are phenomenal talents (ie, future hall of fame players) or have been in college for 2-3 years.
Perhaps I'd be okay with it if teams had 16 or 17 roster spots opened instead of a maximum of 15. Or if each team had their own D-league team. That way teams can keep these young pups around and still put together a decent rotation.
Hopefully a few of the top prospects in the 2015 class decide to stay in school for one more year, and come out in 2016 when the Raps will most likely get a lottery pick thanks to Dolan.
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planetmars wrote: View PostYou can use the Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/201312100...ck-draft/2014/
That's from December 11, 2013.
First Round
1 Andrew Wiggins SF
2 Julius Randle PF
3 Jabari Parker PF
4 Dante Exum PG/SG
5 Marcus Smart PG
6 Aaron Gordon PF
7 Joel Embiid C
8 Noah Vonleh SF/PF
9 Willie Cauley-Stein C
10 Gary Harris SG
11 Dario Saric SF
12 Montrezl Harrell PF/C
13 Doug McDermott PF
14 Rodney Hood SF
15 Wayne Selden SG
16 James Young SF
17 Glenn Robinson SF
18 Andrew Harrison PG
19 Adreian Payne PF/C
20 Mitch McGary C
21 Jahii Carson PG
22 Spencer Dinwiddie SG
23 Isaiah Austin C
24 T.J. Warren SF
25 Semaj Christon PG
26 Sam Dekker SF
27 Jusuf Nurkic C
28 James McAdoo PF
29 P.J. Hairston SG
30 Rasheed Sulaimon SG
Second Round
1 Alex Poythress SF/PF
2 Jerami Grant SF
3 Dwight Powell PF
4 Nik Stauskas SF
5 C.J. Wilcox SG
6 Vasilije Micic PG
7 Russ Smith PG
8 Przemek Karnowski C
9 Jarnell Stokes PF
10 Khem Birch PF/C
11 Cory Jefferson PF
12 LaQuinton Ross SF
13 Alessandro Gentile SG/SF
14 LeBryan Nash SF
15 Aaron Craft PG
16 Dez Wells SG
17 Mouhammadou Jaiteh C
18 Deonte Burton PG
19 Patric Young C
20 Shabazz Napier PG
21 Fuquan Edwin SF
22 Jordan McRae SG/SF
23 Alec Brown C
24 Joe Harris SF
25 Kyle Anderson SF
26 Markel Brown SG
27 Wang Zhelin C
28 C.J. Fair SF/PF
29 Viktor Gaddefors SF
30 Johnny O'Bryant C
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planetmars wrote: View PostReally disliking the 1 and done NBA player... most rookies are going to suck in the NBA unless they are phenomenal talents (ie, future hall of fame players) or have been in college for 2-3 years.
Perhaps I'd be okay with it if teams had 16 or 17 roster spots opened instead of a maximum of 15. Or if each team had their own D-league team. That way teams can keep these young pups around and still put together a decent rotation.
Hopefully a few of the top prospects in the 2015 class decide to stay in school for one more year, and come out in 2016 when the Raps will most likely get a lottery pick thanks to Dolan.
However the ones that do are usually found at top of lottery and tend to identify themselves quickly.
The last two years? Nope and that is all im saying.
Those in the tank versus no tank saying the draft is not a certainty they were spot on given the last 2 years.
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mcHAPPY wrote: View PostOh for sure. Most draft picks regardless of year don't pan out.
However the ones that do are usually found at top of lottery and tend to identify themselves quickly.
The last two years? Nope and that is all im saying.
Those in the tank versus no tank saying the draft is not a certainty they were spot on given the last 2 years.
Luckily I'm in same boat as Masai! Lol
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