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Can we stop blaming DD now for taking away Ross/JV's opportunity?

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  • NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    They need to try getting him a little more involved. Besides just catch and shoots, dude looks so one dimensional on offense
    I agree 100%, but there's a reason the staff aren't acknowledging this. And from what I've seen, Ross doesn't like physical style ball which is likely the main reason he doesn't have confidence taking it hard to the hoop ala DeMar. It's not to say he can't eventually, I just haven't seen it. You ride Ross' hot hand when he's hitting the long range stuff, but the staff need acknowledge when his shot isn't falling. Because if it isn't, Ross hurts us more on both ends of the floor.

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    • I think one issue is that nobody really expected the team to be where it is right now. Instead of being content with allowing our youngsters to grow, all of a sudden they need to produce consistently. As pointed out before consistency is a huge problem for both of them. I'm pretty sure someone wrote a piece on this kind of thing on the main site.

      While we can point fingers at Casey, DD, the players themselves, etc. for their troubles we need to remember that regardless of the circumstances that they're put in, the youngsters will have flaws in their game even in their 3rd years. These flaws are magnified since they play on a team that just happens to be first in the East. However even with these flaws I don't think we should consider trading or replacing these two guys. Hell yes, it's bloody frustrating when they play like complete shit and in all honesty nobody is happy when they do. But this team is still technically rebuilding, even though they're considered candidates for a good playoff run... or in some radical circles, title contention. We'll need to give them time to grow. And even if they don't pan out, I'm not worried about Masai pulling off a Bryan Colangelo + Bargnani situation. I trust him to make the right decision if things don't work. Personally, I believe that both of them can become good contributors to the team, especially since they have wonderful role models to look up to in Kyle, DD, and Amir. They need time.

      Finally, I don't think they've been playing THAT badly not counting the last game. Lets just hope that the issues that stick out most in their play will eventually resolve themselves with time. DD isn't to blame for their weaknesses. The coaching staff is hopefully doing what they can to balance between being competitive and developing the core, but its difficult with the expectations that have been thrust onto the team. It's on JV and Ross to work things out, and I believe they're more than capable of it.
      OG is our king

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      • TeamEd wrote: View Post
        I do agree that Ross seems to be, quite clearly, an NBA shooting guard. Most of his defensive problems come out of his difficulties guarding SFs with size and shooting guard skills. Where I don't agree is in how that can be achieved with the current roster.

        The current starting lineup already produces spacing issues. The Raps have no shooting in the frontcourt. The obvious solution to that is what you said, shifting Ross to shooting guard putting JJ into SF and swapping PP for Amir. But, that takes an already sketchy defensive frontcourt and makes it disastrous. As wonky as Amir's body is right now, he's the keystone of the defense. And, for all PP's strengths he is a blow average frontcourt defender and rebounder. What's more, PP's offense relies on spot up opportunities and the team as a whole and Kyle especially seems to have stopped making creating those opportunities a priority. Remember how ineffective PP looked starting earlier in the season?

        As for putting Lou in as starting SG, I don't see that working. For whatever reason, he's looked awful when he's asked to play off the ball next to Kyle. The words "off the ball" are not in Lou's basketball vocabulary.
        Good points, I don't disagree. I just think it would be worth trying, especially this early in the season. And I really think Lou could slide into Demar's spot nicely. He would be playing off the ball somewhat, but would still be a major part of the offence and retain the ability to dribble and create. I just really don't like Kyle not being the primary PG, and running plays with him in DD's role. But again, I would prefer to have Ross in the SG spot, and have Lou and GV come off the bench. But it will also be up to him to be aggressive like Demar and get into the paint and draw some contact regardless of the position he plays.

        Not having Amir in the starting unit would hurt, no doubt. Hell, I'd just insert JJ into the starting 3 and move Ross to the 2 and see how that goes. In theory, the lack of shooting may suck, but the defence could be off the charts. I'd like to see some experimenting.

        In any event, I hope everyone realizes just how important Demar is to this team.

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        • Dr. James Naismith wrote: View Post
          As I've mentioned before with Ross, I base most of my opinions with some players who I'm critical about on effort alone. Sure Ross and DeMar could be mentioned as equals under the same breathe, but until Ross puts forth an effort there's no comparison. Perhaps Casey could be contributing to Ross' deficiencies but he and his staff have him playing this way for a reason. Likely they lack confidence in him and with DeMar out at the moment, we don't have too many other viable options. JMO
          I just realized this isn't a typo, that you've been doing it always, and that it means Just My Opinion.

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          • Mindlessness wrote: View Post
            I just realized this isn't a typo, that you've been doing it always, and that it means Just My Opinion.
            Yup, apparently its all the rage in Europe. All the cool kids are doing it. So why not, right?

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            • Wizards currently getting stomped on by Boston loool

              Celtics up 25 late in the 3rd



              At least we haven't gotten blown out by a lottery team
              "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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              • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                Wizards currently getting stomped on by Boston loool

                Celtics up 25 late in the 3rd



                At least we haven't gotten blown out by a lottery team
                Oh it will happen.

                RR will shut down for site 'maintenance' for 3 days after.

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                • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                  Wizards currently getting stomped on by Boston loool

                  Celtics up 25 late in the 3rd



                  At least we haven't gotten blown out by a lottery team
                  LOL Celtics' fans will regret those kind of wins during the draft
                  Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                  Comment


                  • LOL Rasual Butler is killing Celtics right now
                    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                    • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                      LOL Rasual Butler is killing Celtics right now
                      Wiz down 7 now ahahha

                      woow Boston is terrible at holding leads
                      "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                      • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                        That is fair.

                        I've said this a few times but I don't know why you don't divvy up dd touches:
                        Ross out of horns - catch and shoot!
                        Amir/JV - post ups
                        Lowry/Lou - ISO

                        If coaches don't have confidence 3 years in, it might be time to start taking those ideas of trades seriously.
                        That sounds like it should be the way this thing works. But, you have to take into account that DD doesn't get much of his offense at all out of catch and shoot plays. Most of Demar's open jumpshots were coming out of ISO drives, quick on-ball screens in the midrange and off of dribble hand-offs with Amir, again in the midrange. None of those plays fit Ross's game, as it is right now.

                        Ross's most effective offence comes from spotting up for three out of motion coming out of set plays. The team simply doesn't run plays to set up that kind of opportunity very much. Both Lowry and GV are guys who get most of their assists on the back of their own offence. Ross needs to find a way to get involved more often, sure. Ideally, I want him to figure out how to become an effective release valve for the ball-handler. His off the ball motion in set plays is excellent, but he's not nearly so good at unstructured motion off the ball. I want him to get open for spot ups when Lowry gets into the paint. That's what's stopping him from becoming an elite spot up shooter.

                        Anyway, my point here is that Ross is not currently a natural fit to take over any of DD's missing offense. It's just not that simple. The team hasn't changed the offence, and so the extra chances that DD's absence offers are mostly going to GV and Lowry who are more naturally able to produce offense out of drives and quick screens.
                        @EdTubb - edwardtubb at gmail

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                        • TeamEd wrote: View Post
                          That sounds like it should be the way this thing works. But, you have to take into account that DD doesn't get much of his offense at all out of catch and shoot plays. Most of Demar's open jumpshots were coming out of ISO drives, quick on-ball screens in the midrange and off of dribble hand-offs with Amir, again in the midrange. None of those plays fit Ross's game, as it is right now.

                          Ross's most effective offence comes from spotting up for three out of motion coming out of set plays. The team simply doesn't run plays to set up that kind of opportunity very much. Both Lowry and GV are guys who get most of their assists on the back of their own offence. Ross needs to find a way to get involved more often, sure. Ideally, I want him to figure out how to become an effective release valve for the ball-handler. His off the ball motion in set plays is excellent, but he's not nearly so good at unstructured motion off the ball. I want him to get open for spot ups when Lowry gets into the paint. That's what's stopping him from becoming an elite spot up shooter.

                          Anyway, my point here is that Ross is not currently a natural fit to take over any of DD's missing offense. It's just not that simple. The team hasn't changed the offence, and so the extra chances that DD's absence offers are mostly going to GV and Lowry who are more naturally able to produce offense out of drives and quick screens.
                          This is true. To run plays that would make Ross and Jonas look better (other than post ups for Jonas) would mean we would have to change up our offense completely and I know Casey isn't going to do that. The plays mcHappy said we should run would definitely help a lot but I don't think we can just change things up like that. I don't know man we just need to play better D. I think if that happens we will be fine and all the problems with our offense won't be as magnified.
                          I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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                          • GLF wrote: View Post
                            This is true. To run plays that would make Ross and Jonas look better (other than post ups for Jonas) would mean we would have to change up our offense completely and I know Casey isn't going to do that. The plays mcHappy said we should run would definitely help a lot but I don't think we can just change things up like that. I don't know man we just need to play better D. I think if that happens we will be fine and all the problems with our offense won't be as magnified.
                            They are the same plays they always run.

                            No different than what has been done plugging in GV into starting lineup.

                            If pro bball players can't run same plays in different spots then I am severely overestimating their basketball knowledge and talent.

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                            • TeamEd wrote: View Post
                              That sounds like it should be the way this thing works. But, you have to take into account that DD doesn't get much of his offense at all out of catch and shoot plays. Most of Demar's open jumpshots were coming out of ISO drives, quick on-ball screens in the midrange and off of dribble hand-offs with Amir, again in the midrange. None of those plays fit Ross's game, as it is right now.

                              Ross's most effective offence comes from spotting up for three out of motion coming out of set plays. The team simply doesn't run plays to set up that kind of opportunity very much. Both Lowry and GV are guys who get most of their assists on the back of their own offence. Ross needs to find a way to get involved more often, sure. Ideally, I want him to figure out how to become an effective release valve for the ball-handler. His off the ball motion in set plays is excellent, but he's not nearly so good at unstructured motion off the ball. I want him to get open for spot ups when Lowry gets into the paint. That's what's stopping him from becoming an elite spot up shooter.

                              Anyway, my point here is that Ross is not currently a natural fit to take over any of DD's missing offense. It's just not that simple. The team hasn't changed the offence, and so the extra chances that DD's absence offers are mostly going to GV and Lowry who are more naturally able to produce offense out of drives and quick screens.
                              All of the plays out of horns are catch and shoot or one dribble to rim - except when DD has caught waves everyone off, dribbled between the legs moving backwards, and initiated ISO.

                              Ross had in the past had these plays run for him. Same as DD but Ross came off behind 3pt.

                              Ross has actually done a decent job at times this year getting into the key. He has a nice little one hand push shot/floater he has broke out times.

                              Comment


                              • Icarusdescending wrote: View Post
                                Ross put up back to back 20 point games and another double digits before laying an egg against Cleveland and frankly his usage is barely above what it was pre Demar injury. That said he's not a great shot creator and our Offense is not great at getting open looks for anyone except whoever screen and rolls. And he cannot guard big sf, as has been mentioned several times in this thread.

                                JV has been just awful, but big guys are often inconsistent when young, have to see what he (and Ross) can do bother over this period without Demar and throughout the season.

                                Making judgements about anything after a few regular season games is a mistake anyway, the sample size is just too small.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                sounds about right. no idea why all of a sudden people are freaking out about ross and JV over 3-5 games, especially after a major piece of the team is suddenly taken away. do we really want to look at DD's last 5 games and how he was shooting something like 38%? i guess he just must be absolutely terrible because a 5 game window is all of a sudden worth dissecting and judging players over.

                                ross has shown flashes of some pretty sweet moves, but its pretty obvious hes just mainly being used as a 3 & D guy in this system. last year ross was in the 83rd percentile in catch and shooting 3 point%. thats his strength for now and 'unfortunately' our crazy depth doesn't need him to be any more than that right now.

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