NoPropsneeded wrote:
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Can we stop blaming DD now for taking away Ross/JV's opportunity?
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I think one issue is that nobody really expected the team to be where it is right now. Instead of being content with allowing our youngsters to grow, all of a sudden they need to produce consistently. As pointed out before consistency is a huge problem for both of them. I'm pretty sure someone wrote a piece on this kind of thing on the main site.
While we can point fingers at Casey, DD, the players themselves, etc. for their troubles we need to remember that regardless of the circumstances that they're put in, the youngsters will have flaws in their game even in their 3rd years. These flaws are magnified since they play on a team that just happens to be first in the East. However even with these flaws I don't think we should consider trading or replacing these two guys. Hell yes, it's bloody frustrating when they play like complete shit and in all honesty nobody is happy when they do. But this team is still technically rebuilding, even though they're considered candidates for a good playoff run... or in some radical circles, title contention. We'll need to give them time to grow. And even if they don't pan out, I'm not worried about Masai pulling off a Bryan Colangelo + Bargnani situation. I trust him to make the right decision if things don't work. Personally, I believe that both of them can become good contributors to the team, especially since they have wonderful role models to look up to in Kyle, DD, and Amir. They need time.
Finally, I don't think they've been playing THAT badly not counting the last game. Lets just hope that the issues that stick out most in their play will eventually resolve themselves with time. DD isn't to blame for their weaknesses. The coaching staff is hopefully doing what they can to balance between being competitive and developing the core, but its difficult with the expectations that have been thrust onto the team. It's on JV and Ross to work things out, and I believe they're more than capable of it.OG is our king
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TeamEd wrote: View PostI do agree that Ross seems to be, quite clearly, an NBA shooting guard. Most of his defensive problems come out of his difficulties guarding SFs with size and shooting guard skills. Where I don't agree is in how that can be achieved with the current roster.
The current starting lineup already produces spacing issues. The Raps have no shooting in the frontcourt. The obvious solution to that is what you said, shifting Ross to shooting guard putting JJ into SF and swapping PP for Amir. But, that takes an already sketchy defensive frontcourt and makes it disastrous. As wonky as Amir's body is right now, he's the keystone of the defense. And, for all PP's strengths he is a blow average frontcourt defender and rebounder. What's more, PP's offense relies on spot up opportunities and the team as a whole and Kyle especially seems to have stopped making creating those opportunities a priority. Remember how ineffective PP looked starting earlier in the season?
As for putting Lou in as starting SG, I don't see that working. For whatever reason, he's looked awful when he's asked to play off the ball next to Kyle. The words "off the ball" are not in Lou's basketball vocabulary.
Not having Amir in the starting unit would hurt, no doubt. Hell, I'd just insert JJ into the starting 3 and move Ross to the 2 and see how that goes. In theory, the lack of shooting may suck, but the defence could be off the charts. I'd like to see some experimenting.
In any event, I hope everyone realizes just how important Demar is to this team.
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Dr. James Naismith wrote: View PostAs I've mentioned before with Ross, I base most of my opinions with some players who I'm critical about on effort alone. Sure Ross and DeMar could be mentioned as equals under the same breathe, but until Ross puts forth an effort there's no comparison. Perhaps Casey could be contributing to Ross' deficiencies but he and his staff have him playing this way for a reason. Likely they lack confidence in him and with DeMar out at the moment, we don't have too many other viable options. JMO
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mcHAPPY wrote: View PostThat is fair.
I've said this a few times but I don't know why you don't divvy up dd touches:
Ross out of horns - catch and shoot!
Amir/JV - post ups
Lowry/Lou - ISO
If coaches don't have confidence 3 years in, it might be time to start taking those ideas of trades seriously.
Ross's most effective offence comes from spotting up for three out of motion coming out of set plays. The team simply doesn't run plays to set up that kind of opportunity very much. Both Lowry and GV are guys who get most of their assists on the back of their own offence. Ross needs to find a way to get involved more often, sure. Ideally, I want him to figure out how to become an effective release valve for the ball-handler. His off the ball motion in set plays is excellent, but he's not nearly so good at unstructured motion off the ball. I want him to get open for spot ups when Lowry gets into the paint. That's what's stopping him from becoming an elite spot up shooter.
Anyway, my point here is that Ross is not currently a natural fit to take over any of DD's missing offense. It's just not that simple. The team hasn't changed the offence, and so the extra chances that DD's absence offers are mostly going to GV and Lowry who are more naturally able to produce offense out of drives and quick screens.@EdTubb - edwardtubb at gmail
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TeamEd wrote: View PostThat sounds like it should be the way this thing works. But, you have to take into account that DD doesn't get much of his offense at all out of catch and shoot plays. Most of Demar's open jumpshots were coming out of ISO drives, quick on-ball screens in the midrange and off of dribble hand-offs with Amir, again in the midrange. None of those plays fit Ross's game, as it is right now.
Ross's most effective offence comes from spotting up for three out of motion coming out of set plays. The team simply doesn't run plays to set up that kind of opportunity very much. Both Lowry and GV are guys who get most of their assists on the back of their own offence. Ross needs to find a way to get involved more often, sure. Ideally, I want him to figure out how to become an effective release valve for the ball-handler. His off the ball motion in set plays is excellent, but he's not nearly so good at unstructured motion off the ball. I want him to get open for spot ups when Lowry gets into the paint. That's what's stopping him from becoming an elite spot up shooter.
Anyway, my point here is that Ross is not currently a natural fit to take over any of DD's missing offense. It's just not that simple. The team hasn't changed the offence, and so the extra chances that DD's absence offers are mostly going to GV and Lowry who are more naturally able to produce offense out of drives and quick screens.I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.
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GLF wrote: View PostThis is true. To run plays that would make Ross and Jonas look better (other than post ups for Jonas) would mean we would have to change up our offense completely and I know Casey isn't going to do that. The plays mcHappy said we should run would definitely help a lot but I don't think we can just change things up like that. I don't know man we just need to play better D. I think if that happens we will be fine and all the problems with our offense won't be as magnified.
No different than what has been done plugging in GV into starting lineup.
If pro bball players can't run same plays in different spots then I am severely overestimating their basketball knowledge and talent.
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TeamEd wrote: View PostThat sounds like it should be the way this thing works. But, you have to take into account that DD doesn't get much of his offense at all out of catch and shoot plays. Most of Demar's open jumpshots were coming out of ISO drives, quick on-ball screens in the midrange and off of dribble hand-offs with Amir, again in the midrange. None of those plays fit Ross's game, as it is right now.
Ross's most effective offence comes from spotting up for three out of motion coming out of set plays. The team simply doesn't run plays to set up that kind of opportunity very much. Both Lowry and GV are guys who get most of their assists on the back of their own offence. Ross needs to find a way to get involved more often, sure. Ideally, I want him to figure out how to become an effective release valve for the ball-handler. His off the ball motion in set plays is excellent, but he's not nearly so good at unstructured motion off the ball. I want him to get open for spot ups when Lowry gets into the paint. That's what's stopping him from becoming an elite spot up shooter.
Anyway, my point here is that Ross is not currently a natural fit to take over any of DD's missing offense. It's just not that simple. The team hasn't changed the offence, and so the extra chances that DD's absence offers are mostly going to GV and Lowry who are more naturally able to produce offense out of drives and quick screens.
Ross had in the past had these plays run for him. Same as DD but Ross came off behind 3pt.
Ross has actually done a decent job at times this year getting into the key. He has a nice little one hand push shot/floater he has broke out times.
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Icarusdescending wrote: View PostRoss put up back to back 20 point games and another double digits before laying an egg against Cleveland and frankly his usage is barely above what it was pre Demar injury. That said he's not a great shot creator and our Offense is not great at getting open looks for anyone except whoever screen and rolls. And he cannot guard big sf, as has been mentioned several times in this thread.
JV has been just awful, but big guys are often inconsistent when young, have to see what he (and Ross) can do bother over this period without Demar and throughout the season.
Making judgements about anything after a few regular season games is a mistake anyway, the sample size is just too small.
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ross has shown flashes of some pretty sweet moves, but its pretty obvious hes just mainly being used as a 3 & D guy in this system. last year ross was in the 83rd percentile in catch and shooting 3 point%. thats his strength for now and 'unfortunately' our crazy depth doesn't need him to be any more than that right now.
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