The Hating on Hedo Thread

[Doc]

Guys, it doesn't matter if he has the ball in his hands for the entire game, he's still not putting forth effort on one side of the court, let alone both.

Exactly.

As critical as I've been of Hedo this season, the effort isn't there. We all know the talent this guy has which is making it all that more frustrating to watch, but its just clear as day that he doesn't want to be here in Toronto. And I'm sorry, anyone who feels otherwise is seriously kidding themselves.

[mo-sales]

I think that is the essence of the fans issue of Hedo, his lack of caring. You can be awful at your sport in Toronto, but as long as it looks like you are busting your ass, you get a free pass or possibly even a long term deal re JYD.

It's not even like the expectations were high for him. Take some pressure of Jose playing the point forward, create match up problems off the pick and roll with Bosh and then hit a couple big shots in fourth quarters. Even then he was still mostly retained for the play offs.

I think he came in thinking he was better than he was and that he would have a seamless transition from the two systems. He clearly underrated the effect Howard's defense had in protecting him after his man blew by and how defenses would now collapse on him instead of sticking to the Magic shooters. I also think it can't be undervalued how SVG's super intense, never take a play off attitude kept him motivated, where as his natural tendency leans towards picking his spots and coasting through others.

As much as I blame Hedo for his failure to show up to camp in better shape and his inability to adjust his game to the system instead of forcing the team to adjust to his, much of the blame has to be put on BC for giving him the summer off and Triano for not pushing him harder or incorporating him more effectively into the offense.

The main problem with this team is that no one takes accountability for thier own inadequacies or those of thier teammates. Everyone is always blame shifting and no one is man enough to call each other out on thier own BS. That is what Oak did back in the day and as a result those teams never failed for lack of effort.

[Apollo]

I think that is the essence of the fans issue of Hedo, his lack of caring. You can be awful at your sport in Toronto, but as long as it looks like you are busting your ass, you get a free pass or possibly even a long term deal re JYD.

I think this doesn't just go for Toronto. Any city would turn on a $50M man who doesn't try, deflects blame, and doesn't appear to care about the team but I do agree that if Hedo was struggling but he was trying his best the fans would support him. Thousands of people think he's not trying and doesn't give a damn... Can all these people be wrong?

[abstract]

i think he came in thinking he was better than he was and that he would have a seamless transition from the two systems. He clearly underrated the effect howard's defense had in protecting him after his man blew by and how defenses would now collapse on him instead of sticking to the magic shooters. I also think it can't be undervalued how svg's super intense, never take a play off attitude kept him motivated, where as his natural tendency leans towards picking his spots and coasting through others.

As much as i blame hedo for his failure to show up to camp in better shape and his inability to adjust his game to the system instead of forcing the team to adjust to his, much of the blame has to be put on bc for giving him the summer off and triano for not pushing him harder or incorporating him more effectively into the offense.

+1000

[abstract]

I think this doesn't just go for Toronto. Any city would turn on a $50M man who doesn't try, deflects blame, and doesn't appear to care about the team but I do agree that if Hedo was struggling but he was trying his best the fans would support him. Thousands of people think he's not trying and doesn't give a damn... Can all these people be wrong?

I agree... for me personally, after watching Hedo eating pizza before playoff games on ESPN I knew he was lazy. What bothered me were his conflicting reasons for joining the team.

First it was reported that he chose Toronto over Portland because of closer proximity to Turkey, a cosmopolitan city for his wife etc...

Then during the press conference he totally rejected that angle and said he chose the Raptors because he felt the pieces around him were good enough to 'contend for a championship'. He said this during the press conf as well as during an interview with NBA TV during the season preview show.

And finally when he went to Orlando to play his first game against his former team, the Magic TV staff interviewed him and asked him about Toronto and the weather etc. at which point he said he wanted to stay in Orlando but it's hard to walk away from $53 mil.

[LBF]

Just to get the ball rolling, so to speak:

1) Can anyone honestly believe that instead of helping Bosh get off the ground he went and hugged Don Nelson?
2) Can anyone honestly believe that instead of giving Jack Armstrong a reasonable interview, he said "Ball"?
3) Can anyone honestly believe that while not going to practice because he was sick, he managed to go out to a club in Yorkville?
4) Can anyone honestly believe that he still can't close-out on shooters in spite of the fact that he is 6"10?
5) Can anyone honestly believe that he still can't turn the corner on a screen and attack the basket effectively?

that's hedo's answer to all those questions.

[black angus]

What can we do with Hedo?

I would love the Raptors to trade Hedo this summer... but I don't think that is going to happen. Even less likely is moving Bosh and Hedo together in a sign-and trade... unless a third team can get involved, because I don't think Bosh wants any part of Hedo.

That being said I think the most likely scenario is resigning Bosh and having to keep Hedo. In this situation there are three other positions to fill in the starting rotation. I think Sonny should be given the chance to play the 2 position. This leaves two vacancies in the starting five....

i) A point guard who can defend dribble penetration and can be effective on offense without the ball in his hands (and can hit the spot up three). Can Jarrett Jack handle this role???

ii) A centre who can protect the rim and rebound at both ends of the court.

Unfortunately, the Raptors have about $17 to 20 million tied up in Calderon and Bargnani for each of the next three seasons. I believe Calderon and Bargnani both have some value, they just don't fit with the Raptors other pieces.

So what can BC get for Bargnani and Calderon? I don't think he can move them in one deal - so will he be able to make a couple of big deals this summer.

[Raffy15]

i like bargnani and calderon as people. i really do. but they just dont fit what im looking for right now. you cant have andrea, jose, and hedo playing defense simultaneously. jose just cant play with hedo. its been proven time and again.

i would argue hedo was most effective during the stretch where jose was out of the lineup.

[verbatim]

When you say "hate" think genocides of millions, countless wars and embarrassing moments in almost every people on the face of the earth. Let's get our terminology correct.

Well, "hating someone" is generally too strong. "Hating on someone" usually mitigates the effects of the word. But, really, I used the word "hate" because of the alliteration.

How about:
"The Tell us About Turk Thread"?
Or
"The Lambaste the Lazy-Man Thread"?
Or
"Orate on the Ottoman Thread"?

I think the point I am trying to make with this thread is everyone has a complaint about Hedo for something he has done or not done. All would be forgiven if he just went out there and played some passionate nose to the grindstone basketball. I mean, Kobe has talent coming out the ying yang but you NEVER see him rest on his laurels. All we have seen from Hedo, this professional basketball player, brought in to be the Camel Clutch, is wanting to rest as much as possible. He can't continue to rely on his diminishing talent.

The reason I think it deserves its own thread is because, as I said, this is not one incident, or two. It us a systemic attitude that just doesn't sit well with us fans.

[Apollo]

Just my personal opinion, I think suggesting this board needs a thread for "Hating on someone" is still an insult to the posters around here and is also flat out bogus. Hedo has given the fans and media a million things to criticize. I see people here using factual information to make valid criticisms against Hedo Turkoglu's game. Most fans in here are criticizing Hedo's game and then there is a group of fans defending Hedo the person. Well, I don't know Hedo the person but I do know a large amount about Hedo the player and he's been lazy, unprofessional and disinterested. That's just my opinion though and I guess it all comes back to your personal interpretation of the term "hate" or "hating".

[ScottBaird]

Suggesting this board needs a thread for "Hating on someone" is still an insult to the posters around here and is also flat out bogus. Hedo has given the fans and media a million things to criticize.

I like to think that we are generally constructive when criticising Hedo; but there comes a point where the solutions seem obvious, and the management/players don't seem to get it, and you just feel like you hate them all. It's not hate, it's passion. In this thread, it's just being phrased wrong.

It's not really hate for Hedo as a person, either- does anyone here hang with Hedo? I doubt it. You'd be going out to the clubs too much to post anything.

I see this thread as an opportunity for venting frustrations that have been building all season.

Scott.

PS:

So what can BC get for Bargnani and Calderon? I don't think he can move them in one deal - so will he be able to make a couple of big deals this summer.

Bargs ain't goin' no wheres.

[.40 Cal Flakes]

Hedo:

[jamesk]

1) Believe it, and get over it...it's called "having some class"
2)Believe it, I've got nuthin else to say
3) Believe it, people like to go out after work, even if they did jack all day...especially millionaires
4) Believe that, you're wrong
5) Believe that, you're wrong

Believe everyone hating on Turk like a laser is missing the whole story of a team.

[Apollo]

1) Believe it, and get over it...it's called "having some class"
2)Believe it, I've got nuthin else to say
3) Believe it, people like to go out after work, even if they did jack all day...especially millionaires
4) Believe that, you're wrong
5) Believe that, you're wrong

Believe everyone hating on Turk like a laser is missing the whole story of a team.

1.) So its a class act to leave your teammate on the ground and go celebrate with the team who just beat you? Whatever happened to an email or phone call the next day? That's called be conscious.
3.) Yeah, people do go out after work for a drink and people call in sick and go out partying as well. One is fine and natural, one is unprofessional and disrespectful to your boss, your company and your co-workers.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

hahaha this thread has gone waaaaay over the top!
everybody is getting angst over it!

i dont think we can really blame hedo. like i said in my past posts, he came in to an entirely new system, with 9 new players including himself. i think its hard enough trying to adjust to a new team, let alone adjust with the other 9 players who are also adjusting like you. damn! also, if you look at his track record, he was more of a support player when he was with the kings, then the spurs and then orlando. only in the 07-08 season he put in career bests, and that was after being in orlando for his 5th year. in 08-09 his stats declined, so i dont know why BC thought that he would be the Raps saviour and signed him to a crazy ass deal. to tell you honestly, when he "defected" and signed with the Raps, me and my buddies were more disappointed than happy, since we already knew that he would not fit in the Raps system, which has jose whos always looking for bosh and bargs to pass, and two off the ball scorers (bosh and bargs).
Remember when you all were playing in peewee basketball and there was another kid in your team always getting touches? dont tell me you kept scrapping and grinding every game just to pass the ball to that kid....common...now you know how hedo feels. and dont tell me that its different because hedo is getting paid money. the desire that we had while playing basketball when we were kids was far more worthy than if we were offered money back then.....
It still comes down to how hedo feels during the game. Do you think that he's thinking he has to prove every game that he's worth the 50mil deal? He didnt ask for that contract, it was offered to him. Do you think when LBJ plays he thinks he'll be getting a max contract this year if he always tries to get a triple double? Hell no. LBJ plays coz he's a workhorse and Hedo is not built like that. Go blame BC for offering him that deal and making our lives stressful. I know i will when i see him.