Raptors Now #1 Off Rtg

[white men can't jump]

How has Ross not been mentioned?

In essentially 2 weeks of larger offensive responsibilities he has progressed so much. He is a step behind DD in terms of consistency, but imo is ahead already in handles, playmaking, flow and obviously shooting. Impressive

I can't really give you any of that except shooting, and even there his %s are worse, but he's done a good job knocking down some jumpers off the dribble (which he wasn't getting as much with DD in the lineup)...however a lot of those aren't even very good shots.

His handles are not that strong. He tends to lose the ball if forced off his line or into any kind of traffic (even minimal). He also tends to hesitate and let the D set again when he comes around a screen, leading him to take lots of jumpers, and rarely getting into the lane, where he has exactly one finishing move with a floater, and rarely gets to the rim. He doesn't make lots of plays for others, and his assist numbers have actually gone down since DeMar went out.

I don't find he's been that impressive. He's been fairly consistent with the areas he was already fairly skilled in, and has shown little progress in any others. He's hitting his jumpers, and been unable to generate much other offence for himself or others. His D has also not really shown much (any?) progress since last year, and that's the area I was hoping for the biggest leap. He has all the tools, and had shown flashes last year of being a lockdown perimeter defender....we tend to only get that Ross in isolated stretches though.

[S.R.]

Nothing to see here. Just someone Masai plucked from Sacramento when he was pillaging. Just someone he was able to resign to a reasonable contract. What else would you expect?

That the second best 3pt shooter in the league this year is a role player who hardly gets mentioned on this team - that speaks volumes to the depth Ujiri has pulled together in so short a time.

[octothorp]

How has Ross not been mentioned?

In essentially 2 weeks of larger offensive responsibilities he has progressed so much. He is a step behind DD in terms of consistency, but imo is ahead already in handles, playmaking, flow and obviously shooting. Impressive

One of my favorite plays that the Raptors run is where Ross gets a couple screens beneath the basket and comes up on the left side to receive the pass. Originally, he was using it to get off an open 3, but now he's getting very good at receiving the ball and turning back into the lane, and either putting up a floater before help comes, or if help is coming quickly, dishing it off down to the left-side screener (usually JV) for an easy dunk, after that defender comes up to help. I love plays like that, where it relies on the offensive player to make a couple decisions on very easy reads. I'm not sure I've seen any opponent actually defend that well.

[OldSkoolCool]

I can't really give you any of that except shooting, and even there his %s are worse, but he's done a good job knocking down some jumpers off the dribble (which he wasn't getting as much with DD in the lineup)...however a lot of those aren't even very good shots.

His handles are not that strong. He tends to lose the ball if forced off his line or into any kind of traffic (even minimal). He also tends to hesitate and let the D set again when he comes around a screen, leading him to take lots of jumpers, and rarely getting into the lane, where he has exactly one finishing move with a floater, and rarely gets to the rim. He doesn't make lots of plays for others, and his assist numbers have actually gone down since DeMar went out.

I don't find he's been that impressive. He's been fairly consistent with the areas he was already fairly skilled in, and has shown little progress in any others. He's hitting his jumpers, and been unable to generate much other offence for himself or others. His D has also not really shown much (any?) progress since last year, and that's the area I was hoping for the biggest leap. He has all the tools, and had shown flashes last year of being a lockdown perimeter defender....we tend to only get that Ross in isolated stretches though.

TRoss' handles have been much better than DD's for quite a while.

Gotta realize he is taking his offense more in the flow of the game than DD and the offensive efficiency has improved therefor. His shooting percentages have been skewed by a cold streak more than anything. He has gotten tons of wide open looks from three that just havent went down for the past two weeks. Also, consider that he has been in this new role for what, a month...and it took DD 3 years to be marginally even at it. Ross is kicking DDs developmental curve to the curb

[mcHAPPY]

TRoss' handles have been much better than DD's for quite a while.

Gotta realize he is taking his offense more in the flow of the game than DD and the offensive efficiency has improved therefor. His shooting percentages have been skewed by a cold streak more than anything. He has gotten tons of wide open looks from three that just havent went down for the past two weeks. Also, consider that he has been in this new role for what, a month...and it took DD 3 years to be marginally even at it. Ross is kicking DDs developmental curve to the curb

Ross' consistency is what burns me.

I love what he brings when he is on.

[OldSkoolCool]

Ross' consistency is what burns me.

I love what he brings when he is on.

He can blow up a game so fastwhen he is on. Exciting to watch too

[Joey]

Well this managed to be a great, non-DD focused discussion for a bit .. but alas, it diverted.

TRoss' handles have been much better than DD's for quite a while.

Perhaps, up until Demar made it a point to improve his handles, but now I'd say its not even up for debate anymore ...

Ross is kicking DDs developmental curve to the curb

We all know you're not a fan of DDs game, you are of course the one who feels that even Dion Waiters is better than Demar, so its no surprise you would be debating in such in a manner, but I just don't see it at all though. At least with Demar you know the effort is always going to be there.

He can blow up a game so fast when he is on.

The same could easily be said for Demar as well though ... Or anyone really.. Only problem is that its so very rare for Ross to be "on", its not even really worth discussing. Showing up and being engaged for 1 out of 10 games isn't that impressive to me.

[Joey]

The offense has been humming all season, but it has been especially impressive of late. PP and Lou are definitely adding to that, but I'd say an underappreciated aspect to our improved offense could be JJ and his ability to turn Defense into Offense.

I could very easily see Demar coming back in more of a facilitator role, and understanding that things have been good since he left, and inserting his skills appropriately into an already potent offense is going to do nothing but good.

[stooley]

The offense has been humming all season, but it has been especially impressive of late. PP and Lou are definitely adding to that, but I'd say an underappreciated aspect to our improved offense could be JJ and his ability to turn Defense into Offense.

I could very easily see Demar coming back in more of a facilitator role, and understanding that things have been good since he left, and inserting his skills appropriately into an already potent offense is going to do nothing but good.

Hopefully we see USA basketball Derozan with more minutes.

[planetmars]

I don't think Amir gets enough recognition for their offense. He's a key reason why Lowry and Lou got so many clean looks against Denver. Amir is one of the best screen setters in the league, and doesn't cry if he doesn't get the ball. Would absolutely hate to lose him this off season.

[OldSkoolCool]

Well this managed to be a great, non-DD focused discussion for a bit ..


We all know you're not a fan of DDs game, you are of course the one who feels that even Dion Waiters is better than Demar, so its no surprise you would be debating in such in a manner, but I just don't see it at all though. At least with Demar you know the effort is always going to be there.

1) We have improved offensively while losing our "best/leading scorer/all star" that is DD...how can we not talk about that. At its root is a small portion where those who thought the ball stopped with DD were correct. Our offense is now a smoother, flowing, balanced attack. The numbers back it up, and as a "DD nay-sayer" I gotta play the devil and say the obvious...maybe DD is not as good offensively as some of you thought.

2) Where does Waiters fit into this? I was saying that because Ross plays within the offense more than DD the offense is better with Ross vs DD. And that in this role, Ross has pregress much faster than DD has (1 month vs 3 years). That includes his handles imo (ok to disagree here...no statistical evidence)

Alas I had also stated that DD is more consistent than Ross, and mcHappy echoed that sentiment by stating he wishes Ross were more consistent.

So Joey, instead of just sucking DDs D, maybe you contribute something to this conversation.

[Joey]

So Joey, instead of just sucking DDs D, maybe you contribute something to this conversation.

LOL Seriously? You're cute.

I've had this conversation far too many times, with you included, to join in again; was just pointing out that there are still pretty huge gaps in your argument that you should work on.

Oh, and lets not talk like that. Be a grown up and use real words like civilized human beings.

[Joey]

But so as to avoid the appearance of sucking anybodies "D", if I had to pick one area to point out why your argument is flawed in this particular debate, it is that with all the extra opportunity, Ross has averaged just 2 more points per game, while basically getting worse in every other catergory. Including his 3pt %, which is at 34% since Demar left. Made even worse by the fact that TRoss only gets to the line once per game; like literally 1.0 FTA per game.

This is not knock on TRoss, I'm still a fan, but again, to imply that Ross is kicking DDs anything right now, is just bullshit. But hey, just my D Sucking opinion.

[OldSkoolCool]

LOL Seriously? You're cute.

I've had this conversation far too many times, with you included, to join in again; was just pointing out that there are still pretty huge gaps in your argument that you should work on.

Oh, and lets not talk like that. Be a grown up and use real words like civilized human beings.

I would be ok if you replied to my initial post with topics that were at least related.

But when you reply to "Ross' developmental curve is > than DDs" with crap like "We know youre not a fan of DD...you think Waiters is better...at least DD is gonna give it every night." (That sounds a wee bit personal to me)

So until you at least show me the "pretty huge gaps" in my arguement. Im going to call you out, Mr. MODERATOR, for following your anti-personal posting rules.

*the debate for better handles is also not unquestionable....I do think Ross has better handles. But, we can agree to disagree because it is solely opinion based

[Joey]

So until you at least show me the "pretty huge gaps" in my arguement. Im going to call you out, Mr. MODERATOR, for following your anti-personal posting rules.

Already took the liberty. And sorry, how did I make it personal? Was just pointing out your obvious extreme bias that has been evident in the past.


Not going to lie, I do like the sounds of "Mr. Moderator" though.