#FireCasey

[Other Scott]

What?

Casey had an improved roster from '13-'14 to '14-'15.

He didn't know what to do with it except play more ISO.



And if the definition is good enough for Albert Einstein, it is good enough for me.

And the team was better at the start of '14-15 than it was in '13-14. Then DeRozan got injured, Lowry dropped completely off the map, Amir only shows up some times, who knows what happened to Vazquez, Williams wasn't hot as often, etc. There were a lot of personnel issues this season that there weren't last season. And most of them were not Casey's fault.

The Raptors two most played players this year were Lou Williams and Patrick Patterson. How is a team going to win if that happens?

[slaw]

The bold really is the answer and yes it is simple.

He couldn't handle a fluid situation.

Shit happens as you listed but he didn't adapt.

He is the very definition of insanity and it is why he should be fired.

We get it. That's your opinion. But it is completely unreasonable to ignore mitigating factors - the most important of which is Kyle Lowry. Even you must concede there is a pretty direct correlation between the drop-off in Lowry's play since January 1st and the fortunes of the team overall.

Casey isn't blameless but it isn't all at his feet. And, if you choose to make Casey the sine qua non of the late-season collapse, then you also have to give him the lion's share of the credit for the tp-10 defense and offense last year.

And actually, Einstein didn't say the insanity thing....

[JimiCliff]

We get it. That's your opinion. But it is completely unreasonable to ignore mitigating factors - the most important of which is Kyle Lowry. Even you must concede there is a pretty direct correlation between the drop-off in Lowry's play since January 1st and the fortunes of the team overall.

Casey isn't blameless but it isn't all at his feet. And, if you choose to make Casey the sine qua non of the late-season collapse, then you also have to give him the lion's share of the credit for the tp-10 defense and offense last year.

And actually, Einstein didn't say the insanity thing....

Re the bold:

Why? The two don't have to be directly related, yet many treat them as if they are. There has to be some kind of argument fallacy for this kind of reasoning...

[mcHAPPY]

We get it. That's your opinion. But it is completely unreasonable to ignore mitigating factors - the most important of which is Kyle Lowry. Even you must concede there is a pretty direct correlation between the drop-off in Lowry's play since January 1st and the fortunes of the team overall.

Casey isn't blameless but it isn't all at his feet. And, if you choose to make Casey the sine qua non of the late-season collapse, then you also have to give him the lion's share of the credit for the tp-10 defense and offense last year.

And actually, Einstein didn't say the insanity thing....

Actually, yes, I do give him a lot of the credit for last season. Until the end of last season, the ball was moving and the team grinded out on D. He deserved credit for the turnaround. But by the postseason, he had been found out and the things that made the Raptors such an enjoyable surprise post-Gay were lost....and sadly never to return.


So this year, there is no ball movement and they are patsies on D. So yes, I blame him. Why? Because it comes back to exactly what you stated: he didn't adapt. Do you see Thibs throw his arms in the air and quit because Rose went out and then didn't come back near his prior form? As said previously, shit happens. You have to adapt. Guys weren't performing? Find someone who is or will.


I don't care if Einstein said it or not. Doing the same over and over and expecting different results is, well, stupid. How much stupid have we suffered this year?

[Cody73]

Actually, yes, I do give him a lot of the credit for last season. Until the end of last season, the ball was moving and the team grinded out on D. He deserved credit for the turnaround. But by the postseason, he had been found out and the things that made the Raptors such an enjoyable surprise post-Gay were lost....and sadly never to return.


So this year, there is no ball movement and they are patsies on D. So yes, I blame him. Why? Because it comes back to exactly what you stated: he didn't adapt. Do you see Thibs throw his arms in the air and quit because Rose went out and then didn't come back near his prior form? As said previously, shit happens. You have to adapt. Guys weren't performing? Find someone who is or will.


I don't care if Einstein said it or not. Doing the same over and over and expecting different results is, well, stupid. How much stupid have we suffered this year?

Enough to know that Casey will never change his Iso ball ways and deserves to be canned so badly that if it doesn't happen, most of us will flip out.

[slaw]

Re the bold:

Why? The two don't have to be directly related, yet many treat them as if they are. There has to be some kind of argument fallacy for this kind of reasoning...

It's not that the two are directly related.... not really the point I am making at all. I am pointing out the argument is a specious as saying 2014 was all cause of Casey.

Look, every other thread on here is: the Raps need a starting PF, Raps need to get rid of DD cause he's terrible, Lowry is terrible, Ross is terrible, Vazquez is terrible, etc. and on and on. The analytics guys tell us how poor all the players are. ESPN rates the playoff starters and the Raps guys are all in the 60s. Christ, the guy posting in here about how terrible Casey is wants to trade the team's starting backcourt for magic beans. Then the next thread is: it's all Casey's fault!

All I'm pointing out is that there is a myriad of reasons why the team has collapsed this season and that you can't simply ignore Amir's fall-off, Lowry's inexplicably poor play since January 1st, Ross' awfulness, Derozan's career-low shooting percentages, etc. and say Casey is the "but for" in this situation. He is a part of the problem but there are a lot of issues with this team.

[Axel]

It's not that the two are directly related.... not really the point I am making at all. I am pointing out the argument is a specious as saying 2014 was all cause of Casey.

Look, every other thread on here is: the Raps need a starting PF, Raps need to get rid of DD cause he's terrible, Lowry is terrible, Ross is terrible, Vazquez is terrible, etc. and on and on. The analytics guys tell us how poor all the players are. ESPN rates the playoff starters and the Raps guys are all in the 60s. Christ, the guy posting in here about how terrible Casey is wants to trade the team's starting backcourt for magic beans. Then the next thread is: it's all Casey's fault!

All I'm pointing out is that there is a myriad of reasons why the team has collapsed this season and that you can't simply ignore Amir's fall-off, Lowry's inexplicably poor play since January 1st, Ross' awfulness, Derozan's career-low shooting percentages, etc. and say Casey is the "but for" in this situation. He is a part of the problem but there are a lot of issues with this team.

There are definitely issues that outside of Casey's control, but the on-court style of play, is 100% on him.

[Balls of Steel]

#firecasey

[mcHAPPY]

There are definitely issues that outside of Casey's control, but the on-court style of play, is 100% on him.

How can you sum that up in just 2 lines?!?!?

Well congrats, you did it.

[mcHAPPY]

It's not that the two are directly related.... not really the point I am making at all. I am pointing out the argument is a specious as saying 2014 was all cause of Casey.

Look, every other thread on here is: the Raps need a starting PF, Raps need to get rid of DD cause he's terrible, Lowry is terrible, Ross is terrible, Vazquez is terrible, etc. and on and on. The analytics guys tell us how poor all the players are. ESPN rates the playoff starters and the Raps guys are all in the 60s. Christ, the guy posting in here about how terrible Casey is wants to trade the team's starting backcourt for magic beans. Then the next thread is: it's all Casey's fault!

All I'm pointing out is that there is a myriad of reasons why the team has collapsed this season and that you can't simply ignore Amir's fall-off, Lowry's inexplicably poor play since January 1st, Ross' awfulness, Derozan's career-low shooting percentages, etc. and say Casey is the "but for" in this situation. He is a part of the problem but there are a lot of issues with this team.

Yeah the guy posting about trading the back court was in response to someone saying Ujiri has wasted 2 years with this core. My point was it could be possible to trade Lowry and DD and receive the type of returns that would have been on par or better than having straight up tanked post Gay.

But I do think ONE of Lowry or DD should be traded.

[Axel]

How can you sum that up in just 2 lines?!?!?

Well congrats, you did it.

Technically it was 1 line.

[mcHAPPY]

Technically it was 1 line.

I'm on my phone where it was 3 - lol.

I guesstimated

[Bandit]

It's not that the two are directly related.... not really the point I am making at all. I am pointing out the argument is a specious as saying 2014 was all cause of Casey.

Look, every other thread on here is: the Raps need a starting PF, Raps need to get rid of DD cause he's terrible, Lowry is terrible, Ross is terrible, Vazquez is terrible, etc. and on and on. The analytics guys tell us how poor all the players are. ESPN rates the playoff starters and the Raps guys are all in the 60s. Christ, the guy posting in here about how terrible Casey is wants to trade the team's starting backcourt for magic beans. Then the next thread is: it's all Casey's fault!

All I'm pointing out is that there is a myriad of reasons why the team has collapsed this season and that you can't simply ignore Amir's fall-off, Lowry's inexplicably poor play since January 1st, Ross' awfulness, Derozan's career-low shooting percentages, etc. and say Casey is the "but for" in this situation. He is a part of the problem but there are a lot of issues with this team.

Everything starts with leaders. Doesn't matter the industry or situation. I think Masai has the makings of a good Leader, Casey however does not. You need a strong leader. Once that is addressed then yes there are massive personnel issues that need to be handled and all of those "insert player here" sucks threads show that.

Once we have a new leader for the bench, then we need to give him some talent to groom and some leaders on the floor. Then we can address our issues of balance and major holes. I believe it all starts with Casey though, that is the first domino that needs to fall and I think that's why most people go at him first.

[Other Scott]

I actually think Casey is a strong leader. He's reigned in players who have been notoriously hard to coach.

He's just a mediocre to poor at the basketball part of his job.

[slaw]

Everything starts with leaders. Doesn't matter the industry or situation. I think Masai has the makings of a good Leader, Casey however does not. You need a strong leader. Once that is addressed then yes there are massive personnel issues that need to be handled and all of those "insert player here" sucks threads show that.

Once we have a new leader for the bench, then we need to give him some talent to groom and some leaders on the floor. Then we can address our issues of balance and major holes. I believe it all starts with Casey though, that is the first domino that needs to fall and I think that's why most people go at him first.

The role of leaders is as overrated in sport as it is in business. Anyone who is building any sort of organization based on a view that the right leader is the key to success is doomed to failure.