Raptors Collapse Continues....

[Superjudge]

No. The only blame is not starting to make the team his own sooner. But we all know he tried and fate/luck had different ideas.

The coach is BCs and the starting lineup is BCs.

Masai has out his imprint on the team but not his stamp.

And if they rebound, as most teams playing poorly do, will that then be BC's success, or Messiahs?

I'm just asking because you know.... it changes from day to day.

[planetmars]

The collapse is par for course.. they had an easy schedule to start, and a tougher schedule in february. This was coming.

Do the Raptors get out of the first round? That's what I'm wondering.. and if they do does Casey come back for one more year? Masai will have a hard time letting go of a coach that set their pre-season expectations.

I'm not going to cheer against the Raptors when the playoffs roll around despite how much I think a new coach would be a better idea. So if my cheering helps them get to round two, I expect a similar season next year as well.

[JimiCliff]

And if they rebound, as most teams playing poorly do, will that then be BC's success, or Messiahs?

I'm just asking because you know.... it changes from day to day.

BC's modus operandi was to throw shit at the wall until it stuck. He couldn't get anything to stick, and he had more than enough time to. Masai then came in and moved some of the shit around, and now it's sticking a bit (to the amazement of many NBA analysts and front office people, I might add). If that's BC's success, sure, ok, whatever.

[KeonClark]

I'm gettin REALLY sick of the negativety on these boards. Its always busier here after losses. Everybody loves to point out our faults, and yes there are many just like almost every other team, but what were your expectations going into this season? Better yet, what were your expectations two years ago? I love this team and love where we're headed. A team with no superstars, young core and a level headed gm on their way to the best season in franchise history and sitting 2nd in the east thru nearly 60 games. Sign me up. "The collapse" lol what a joke. Some of you should have your thread making priveleges revoked the morning after a loss.

[mcHAPPY]

And if they rebound, as most teams playing poorly do, will that then be BC's success, or Messiahs?

I'm just asking because you know.... it changes from day to day.

You can't have 5 of rotation and starting lineup until recently all brought in by former GM and not give that GM some credit for putting those players in place. The moves that got the team over the hump were Masai's and the results were luck. Once things miraculously fell in place, Masai really has had no choice but to see this through. We will have to see what happens come the playoffs but I don't see this team being a serious playoff threat. I believe the media message of a vote of confidence after the trade deadline is as manipulated and contrived as the #FuckBrooklyn rallying cry....and likely as effective too - especially for the band wagoners.



But in the end it really just depends how I feel that day to be honest.

*Disclaimer: none of above is fact. Don't treat it as such RR faithful*

[DDelight]

But just a week ago, we were on a 4 game winning streak against good competition. Were those wins from bad play still or good play?

This is actually a legit question I'm putting out there.

Because everybody was really happy after we blew out the Hawks and I didn't really see that many people saying "ohhh we've beaten good competition but our offense is not sustainable". Instead I was seeing more of "ohhh we've beaten good competition because of James Johnson put in the starting lineup. Our defense is much better now!"

A lot of what I'm reading is....our bad offense only worked at the beginning of the season because we had an easy schedule. Now that the schedule is tougher, our bad offense is rearing it's ugly head. But we literally have just come off of beating some solid teams. Meaning what...our bad offense also allows us to beat good teams? Luck 4 games straight?

I think this Raptors season and their "struggles" is not so black and white as some are making it seem here. I'm not convinced this is it for us and we're going to continue in some tailspin. If our record was simply just a byproduct of our good schedule then our record against plus .500 teams shouldn't be comparable to other top teams record against plus .500 teams. It should be more like Washington's at like 10-18.

[Scraptor]

MU has been here for 2 years ... doesn't get some share of the blame if the product is that weak ?

No. The only blame is not starting to make the team his own sooner. But we all know he tried and fate/luck had different ideas.

The coach is BCs and the starting lineup is BCs.

Masai has out his imprint on the team but not his stamp.

Oh really? Back when the team was winning in November you said this:

BC was commissioned to create a work of art. He rented the studio, bought the clay, and did enough with it to see what would not work. The commissioner came along and was disgusted by what he saw.

Masai was brought in to salvage the project and created a masterpiece.

So when the team is winning Masai deserves the credit, and when the team is losing, BC deserves the blame.

[mcHAPPY]

Oh really? Back when the team was winning in November you said this:



So when the team is winning Masai deserves the credit, and when the team is losing, BC deserves the blame.

The ideas are essentially the same no? BC started something and Masai finished it by making changes BC refused to make.

Back in November they played some good ball after, I believe, it was an early boston game.

Unfortunately the rest of the league has since figured the raps out, no one has adjusted, and the worst parts of the raptors game are becoming more and more what they are all about.

[S.R.]

But just a week ago, we were on a 4 game winning streak against good competition. Were those wins from bad play still or good play?

This is actually a legit question I'm putting out there.

Because everybody was really happy after we blew out the Hawks and I didn't really see that many people saying "ohhh we've beaten good competition but our offense is not sustainable". Instead I was seeing more of "ohhh we've beaten good competition because of James Johnson put in the starting lineup. Our defense is much better now!"

A lot of what I'm reading is....our bad offense only worked at the beginning of the season because we had an easy schedule. Now that the schedule is tougher, our bad offense is rearing it's ugly head. But we literally have just come off of beating some solid teams. Meaning what...our bad offense also allows us to beat good teams? Luck 4 games straight?

I think this Raptors season and their "struggles" is not so black and white as some are making it seem here. I'm not convinced this is it for us and we're going to continue in some tailspin. If our record was simply just a byproduct of our good schedule then our record against plus .500 teams shouldn't be comparable to other top teams record against plus .500 teams. It should be more like Washington's at like 10-18.

It means our bad offense is bad, but will still have a night like the 3rd quarter against Atlanta where they light it up while the D is engaged. The Raps can be that good - a big part of the frustration is that they should be that good more often instead of sliding towards becoming a .500 team.

In that regard I don't think anybody's honestly throwing core players or the GM under the bus. The building consensus seems to be that the coach is letting selfish basketball run rampant, it's getting worse each month, and of course the core players who are allowed to play on a long leash and take a ton of shots are happy so far. The W/L has been glossing over core issues which, for the first time, an important role player just made reference to in the media. These problems are not the end of the world, but something needs to change for them to get better. Otherwise you're going to hear more comments like PP's coming out of the lockerroom, not less.

This can and should be a conference finals contending team. Instead they're veering towards "with the right match-up against an injury-depleted first round opponent, we can probably make the 2nd round." I'm not happy about that after seeing these same players being capable of top-10 play at both ends of the floor.

[tDotted]

It means our bad offense is bad, but will still have a night like the 3rd quarter against Atlanta where they light it up while the D is engaged. The Raps can be that good - a big part of the frustration is that they should be that good more often instead of sliding towards becoming a .500 team.

In that regard I don't think anybody's honestly throwing core players or the GM under the bus. The building consensus seems to be that the coach is letting selfish basketball run rampant, it's getting worse each month, and of course the core players who are allowed to play on a long leash and take a ton of shots are happy so far. The W/L has been glossing over core issues which, for the first time, an important role player just made reference to in the media. These problems are not the end of the world, but something needs to change for them to get better. Otherwise you're going to hear more comments like PP's coming out of the lockerroom, not less.

This can and should be a conference finals contending team. Instead they're veering towards "with the right match-up against an injury-depleted first round opponent, we can probably make the 2nd round." I'm not happy about that after seeing these same players being capable of top-10 play at both ends of the floor.

I nominate S.R. for MVP of the forum.

[DDelight]

It means our bad offense is bad, but will still have a night like the 3rd quarter against Atlanta where they light it up while the D is engaged. The Raps can be that good - a big part of the frustration is that they should be that good more often instead of sliding towards becoming a .500 team.

In that regard I don't think anybody's honestly throwing core players or the GM under the bus. The building consensus seems to be that the coach is letting selfish basketball run rampant, it's getting worse each month, and of course the core players who are allowed to play on a long leash and take a ton of shots are happy so far. The W/L has been glossing over core issues which, for the first time, an important role player just made reference to in the media. These problems are not the end of the world, but something needs to change for them to get better. Otherwise you're going to hear more comments like PP's coming out of the lockerroom, not less.

This can and should be a conference finals contending team. Instead they're veering towards "with the right match-up against an injury-depleted first round opponent, we can probably make the 2nd round." I'm not happy about that after seeing these same players being capable of top-10 play at both ends of the floor.

I agree with everything you're saying. But I think calling it a "Raptors collapse" is an exaggeration. We just came off beating 4 good teams. We didn't just have a good 3rd quarter against Atlanta. We had 3 good games before that "good 3rd quarter" against Atlanta.

The Raptors are a good team that is misguided right now. But we're not going to lose the rest of our games of the season. And there's going to be games where we take bad shots and win. So I'm hesitant to think that Casey is going to manage to see that the offense we're running is not working. And even if we did go on a big losing streak, I wouldn't put it past Casey to take JJ and JV out of the starting lineup replaced by GV and PPat. That's just how his logic seems to work sometimes.

[yabadabayolo]

This can and should be a conference finals contending team. Instead they're veering towards "with the right match-up against an injury-depleted first round opponent, we can probably make the 2nd round." I'm not happy about that after seeing these same players being capable of top-10 play at both ends of the floor.

Lol I actually remember the consensus expectations for this year being 2nd round before the year. This conference finals shit only started when we started winning.

Some of you are really overrating the roster of this team.

[yabadabayolo]

I'm hoping that MU is just riding out what BC put together long enough to assemble/develop the pieces he wants, at which point he will bring in the coach he wants. I'm hoping that he never expected this team to make it far in the playoffs. I'm hoping he doesn't expect Lowry/Derozan to be the centerpieces of his new team.

He has the casual fan on the bandwagon now, which is always good for the team. He has some good talent on the roster he may want to keep long term and a coach that isn't going to over achieve and prevent him from making a move. Next couple off seasons will either prove he has a plan and long term goal or will reveal him to be a lucky man.

I really hope it's the long term goal one

Are you saying we should tank ?

[tDotted]

So I'm hesitant to think that Casey is going to manage to see that the offense we're running is not working. And even if we did go on a big losing streak, I wouldn't put it past Casey to take JJ and JV out of the starting lineup replaced by GV and PPat. That's just how his logic seems to work sometimes.

#FireCasey

Lol I actually remember the consensus expectations for this year being 2nd round before the year. This conference finals shit only started when we started winning.

Some of you are really overrating the roster of this team.

East is weak.

[Scraptor]

The ideas are essentially the same no? BC started something and Masai finished it by making changes BC refused to make.

Back in November they played some good ball after, I believe, it was an early boston game.

Unfortunately the rest of the league has since figured the raps out, no one has adjusted, and the worst parts of the raptors game are becoming more and more what they are all about.

I just don't understand how BC gets all the blame when we're losing and Masai gets all the credit when we're winning. BC's been gone almost two years!

Like I've said before, this willingness to put 100% of the blame on BC renders Masai completely infallible. If Masai really found the foundation so disgusting he could have made changes at any time. Yet he chose--and has been repeatedly lauded for--continuity.

You can't have it both ways.