When should Casey be fired ?

[Pong]

Casey would have been just as bad if not worse as the Bucks coach. Larry Drew is my favorite example of a coach who looked much better than he actually was because he had talented players that won despite how terrible he was. Casey is the same kind of coach, this Raps team is talented enough to win games despite how terrible Casey is (the uber weak East has helped out too). Larry Drew won 44 games with the Hawks his final season before he was fired and he got the Bucks gig based on that "44 wins, he must be good". Atlanta is much much better for having fired Drew, and hiring a good coach to replace him (Budenholzer had zero head coaching experience so that shouldn't be a prerequisite for our next coach).

There are better coaches than Casey out there, it's a mathematical certainty. It's Masai's job to find the best one this offseason, and it will probably be the most important decision he makes as GM. Continuity was important last season because our 2nd half of the season was strong and we wanted to continue that. We have been playing sub .500 ball the 2nd half of this season, and that should not be continued at all.

Well Budenholzer was trained by Pop and his hawks are basically playing the same style of basketball as Spurs. I agree that heading coaching exp in nba shouldnt be a prereq, but what I'm trying to say is that based on our history of hiring assistant coaches, it definitely hasn't worked out for us. Before MU hires a new coach, he has to figure out what direction he wants the raps to go. If he wants to start from scratch we need someone who is good at developing players and is willing to work with a young team of players. If he thinks we have the right core but just need retooling, we need someone who's good with x's and o's, and has good playoff experience. If Thibs is available, that'd be the guy. Though i do have my reservations about playing his players immense minutes. Assuming Amir is still around his next season, THibs will run him to the ground.

[white men can't jump]

Well i did say the BUCKS Larry Drew. He was definitely worse than DC. His starting lineup would change like every other game. Even by the time he got fired he didn't have an idea what the team identity was and who should be starting. Keep in mind we had a solid team identity and we played good ball after the Rudy trade and up to just before the All Stars this year.

But if you're talking about Hawks Drew, sure they made playoffs, but look who was on their team. Hawks Joe Johnson was probably better than anyone we currently have on our team, except a healthy and locked in lowry. And while people can make all the jokes they want about Josh Smith and his offence, he was very talented. He was a great defender and a highly underrated passer for a big man.

A couple of points on your first paragraph...

Drew had a horrible horrible roster in Milwaukee last year. Who was their best player? Rookie Po? A still developing Knight? They had serious personnel issues between injuries plaguing them, fat OJ Mayo (who was supposed to come in and start at SG for them), and Larry Sanders, the guy who anchored their team, deciding he hated playing basketball. They were doomed and there was nothing Drew could do. I don't think he's a great coach or anything, but the team had no identity and he couldn't settle on a rotation because it was garbage and he rarely had the same players available for a long enough stretch to settle into a rotation.

We didn't have a solid team identity for very long. We played fairly well after the 1st Gay trade for a bit. We played horribly at the start of the next season, and then well again after we got rid of Gay for a couple of months (our D completely fell apart the last couple of months last season). We started this season well, playing a style that countless people said wouldn't be sustainable and was not as good as our record, and have since been badly exposed over and over again.

People keep bringing up identity and pointing to our D...but we've been a mediocre or even bad defensive team most of Casey's time here. Again, the closest thing to an identity that we've had ALL 4 SEASONS under Casey has been poor shot selection with lots of jumpshooting. We've got a 'defensive' coach who, judging by rotations and on-court product, values ballhandling and shooting more than any other skill.

Casey's gotten way too much credit. And maybe he's getting too much blame now, but it's clear what he's preaching isn't working anymore, and it's not like it ever worked that well. He was a placeholder coach, and it's time to get rid of him and at least try to find a voice that can lead this team going forward. Someone with a better feel for game management, who holds people accountable, preaches smart team ball on both ends, and adjusts tactics to maximize his personnel. When I write that sentence, Casey fails on all 4 counts. He does have some good qualities in terms of managing relationships and fostering a team mentality (ie good locker room coach), but just doesn't cut it in other areas.

[RPT23]

Just my humble opinion; I think it's hilarious that as a team with home court for the first round, reaching the playoffs for a second straight year, ahead of schedule as the Raptors were suppose to be rebuilding last year, winning the Atlantic division title 2nd straight year, had an all star starter this year (beating out Wade thanks to Canada), amidst of a re brand, hosting the All-star next season... we're squabbling about firing a coach (because lately he hasn't been holding the team together as well) right before the playoffs start!?!? Really?! that's just plain stupid and unprofessional.

I've been a Casey supporter but have come to the realization that in order to move forward in the development of the Raptors, the next step and major move has to be made IN THE OFF SEASON. Who are we, the Knicks during the Thomas era? It's clear that Masai has got to make some changes this off season if he wants to progress this team to the next level. Whatever we do
won't have any positive effects, especially coming into the playoffs. I think Masai has a steady head on this situation and trust he won't pull a BC and make moves that makes sense. If he says he doesn't want to be a mediocre team then this off season will be his first real indication other than the Gay and Bargnani trade he made last year.

I get that we all are frustrated in the seemingly directionless way the team is heading, but it's silly to even discuss firing him this instant as most posters here are saying. In response to the OP, the off season is the logical time to evaluate and let Casey go if Masai feels that he is the weakest link.

[white men can't jump]

Just my humble opinion; I think it's hilarious that as a team with home court for the first round, reaching the playoffs for a second straight year, ahead of schedule as the Raptors were suppose to be rebuilding last year, winning the Atlantic division title 2nd straight year, had an all star starter this year (beating out Wade thanks to Canada), amidst of a re brand, hosting the All-star next season... we're squabbling about firing a coach (because lately he hasn't been holding the team together as well) right before the playoffs start!?!? Really?! that's just plain stupid and unprofessional.

I've been a Casey supporter but have come to the realization that in order to move forward in the development of the Raptors, the next step and major move has to be made IN THE OFF SEASON. Who are we, the Knicks during the Thomas era? It's clear that Masai has got to make some changes this off season if he wants to progress this team to the next level. Whatever we do
won't have any positive effects, especially coming into the playoffs. I think Masai has a steady head on this situation and trust he won't pull a BC and make moves that makes sense. If he says he doesn't want to be a mediocre team then this off season will be his first real indication other than the Gay and Bargnani trade he made last year.

I get that we all are frustrated in the seemingly directionless way the team is heading, but it's silly to even discuss firing him this instant as most posters here are saying. In response to the OP, the off season is the logical time to evaluate and let Casey go if Masai feels that he is the weakest link.

Most posters are saying fire him ASAP, and to them that's as soon as the offseason comes.

[big boi]

Someone said this in another thread, but are we really more concerned with how the decision will be perceived that we are willing to risk the present / future of our team with this style of "coaching"? I would be willing to bet that 3/4 of people that follow the Raptors closely would not be upset if Casey was fired immediately. The rest of the NBA might be surprised, but they watch 1-2 raps games a year, if that.

It's more about attracting future players and coaches. Stability and going about things in a patient and professional manner are generally looked upon as positive traits.

[raptors999]

It's more about attracting future players and coaches. Stability and going about things in a patient and professional manner are generally looked upon as positive traits.

Coaches don't discuss non-vacant positions. If Casey isn't returning firing him now makes sense since it allows MU to court other coaches even if Thibs is the target. Once a HC is hired then then they can target a FA. Leaving everything to the off season is disorganized and indecisive

[nubreed000]

I found it interesting that Sterner, not Casey, was working the officials today....

As Casey said a while ago...he likes his money so he keeps his mouth shut. That just shows you where his priorities are (with his bank account, and not his players)

[mcHAPPY]

People who believe that firing Casey is going to make a material difference and solve the Raptors issues are very likely to be disappointed.

It would be one helluva good start to righting the ship.

[mcHAPPY]

Just my humble opinion; I think it's hilarious that as a team with home court for the first round, reaching the playoffs for a second straight year, ahead of schedule as the Raptors were suppose to be rebuilding last year, winning the Atlantic division title 2nd straight year, had an all star starter this year (beating out Wade thanks to Canada), amidst of a re brand, hosting the All-star next season... we're squabbling about firing a coach (because lately he hasn't been holding the team together as well) right before the playoffs start!?!? Really?! that's just plain stupid and unprofessional.

I've been a Casey supporter but have come to the realization that in order to move forward in the development of the Raptors, the next step and major move has to be made IN THE OFF SEASON. Who are we, the Knicks during the Thomas era? It's clear that Masai has got to make some changes this off season if he wants to progress this team to the next level. Whatever we do
won't have any positive effects, especially coming into the playoffs. I think Masai has a steady head on this situation and trust he won't pull a BC and make moves that makes sense. If he says he doesn't want to be a mediocre team then this off season will be his first real indication other than the Gay and Bargnani trade he made last year.

I get that we all are frustrated in the seemingly directionless way the team is heading, but it's silly to even discuss firing him this instant as most posters here are saying. In response to the OP, the off season is the logical time to evaluate and let Casey go if Masai feels that he is the weakest link.

I don't feel the majority want him fired right now.

I certainly don't.

[McRealistic]

In response to the OP, the off season is the logical time to evaluate and let Casey go if Masai feels that he is the weakest link.

Don't you think the evaluation is done by now ? What else is remained to evaluate?

As far as the 2nd part of your post:
"if Masai feels that he is the weakest link"

Do you have any doubt that Casey is the weakest link ?

What if we make it to the 2nd round ? How would that make a difference in the evaluation ?

[Pele]

Don't you think the evaluation is done by now ? What else is remained to evaluate?

As far as the 2nd part of your post:
"if Masai feels that he is the weakest link"

Do you have any doubt that Casey is the weakest link ?

What if we make it to the 2nd round ? How would that make a difference in the evaluation ?

2nd Round?

Don't care anymore. Too much losing. We're not going to grow with Casey anymore. He's tapped out. Maybe the D-League will take him on.

[raptors999]

2nd Round?

Don't care anymore. Too much losing. We're not going to grow with Casey anymore. He's tapped out. Maybe the D-League will take him on.

Worst defensive D-league team might be fun to watch

[distorsun]

The next coach will have a LOT OF WORK. Casey has implemented TERRIBLE habits for the team in terms of systems.
All this HAS to be broken and a lot of teaching will have to be done. If we get a new coach, I would expect some major struggles in the beginning (30games).
Casey's firing should be after the playoffs, but MU will let him ride with the new roster for a while, but on a shorter leash.

[Uncle_Si]

For as much work as Casey puts in to studying plays and his time coaching basketball it really is shocking how many bonehead mistakes he makes. And how disjointed the defense and offense is.

[SamMitchells]

After playoffs.

Look, I get that everybody's pissed off, especially after the breathtakingly stupid ending of the Detroit game. But it isn't just about results. Masai needs to show the basketball community that players and coaches here will be given a chance to excel. Casey took spare parts to 49 wins last year and had a 7-game playoff series against a reasonably solid Nets team. He needed to be given the chance to improve on that; you can't fire a coach when he's delivering reasonably well unless you can say "he's plateaued" and the evidence for Casey's plateauing, while increasing, isn't all in yet.

Casey is well-regarded around the league - he's widely regarded as a good "motivator coach" a la Mark Jackson, the sort of guy who can get knuckleheads to screw their heads on properly. That's not a common talent in basketball coaching and he's respected because of that, and if we had a lot of high-IQ players his flaws as a coach would be minimized. But we don't have high-IQ players, so his flaws are magnified.

He probably won't get to 50 wins or the second round of the playoffs. A first-round exit almost certainly means he's gone, and everybody in the league will understand: we needed a new guy to bring us to the next level, he wasn't the guy for us, etc. That happens.

But firing him immediately, after he's had quite a bit of success and is in fact the winningest coach in team history? That's a Dolan move. That's a short-tempered move. That's a move that says Your Franchise Isn't Stable. And it would be a bad one.

Unfortunately I understand this point of view and as much as I wish it wasn't true... It is.

We're fucked. So how bout them Jays?