When should Casey be fired ?

[Jangles]

After playoffs.

Look, I get that everybody's pissed off, especially after the breathtakingly stupid ending of the Detroit game. But it isn't just about results. Masai needs to show the basketball community that players and coaches here will be given a chance to excel. Casey took spare parts to 49 wins last year and had a 7-game playoff series against a reasonably solid Nets team. He needed to be given the chance to improve on that; you can't fire a coach when he's delivering reasonably well unless you can say "he's plateaued" and the evidence for Casey's plateauing, while increasing, isn't all in yet.

Casey is well-regarded around the league - he's widely regarded as a good "motivator coach" a la Mark Jackson, the sort of guy who can get knuckleheads to screw their heads on properly. That's not a common talent in basketball coaching and he's respected because of that, and if we had a lot of high-IQ players his flaws as a coach would be minimized. But we don't have high-IQ players, so his flaws are magnified.

He probably won't get to 50 wins or the second round of the playoffs. A first-round exit almost certainly means he's gone, and everybody in the league will understand: we needed a new guy to bring us to the next level, he wasn't the guy for us, etc. That happens.

But firing him immediately, after he's had quite a bit of success and is in fact the winningest coach in team history? That's a Dolan move. That's a short-tempered move. That's a move that says Your Franchise Isn't Stable. And it would be a bad one.

Someone said this in another thread, but are we really more concerned with how the decision will be perceived that we are willing to risk the present / future of our team with this style of "coaching"? I would be willing to bet that 3/4 of people that follow the Raptors closely would not be upset if Casey was fired immediately. The rest of the NBA might be surprised, but they watch 1-2 raps games a year, if that.

[ezz_bee]

I think you let Casey go unless he OUT COACHES two coaches in the playoffs. I currently give this a 1% or less chance of happening, so effectively you let him go regardless of whether we win a playoff series or not.

I think it's too late in the season to fire Casey, UNLESS there's a revolt in the locker room, and to my knowledge there is not.

I just don't see any advantages of promoting an interim coach for the benefit of this season or next season. My fear would be that if we promote a guy now and the raps win a playoff series there'd be a lot of pressure to see what that coach could do given a full season. I'd rather ride (and die) with Casey for the rest of the year, and make sure we get a better coach in the off season.

I do think Magoon makes a solid point about what firing Casey would look like to the rest of the league. Not that you need to let public opinion dictate actions, but firing him now does seem emotional & reactionary, and doesn't seem like a classy move. Two traits Masai hasn't really demonstrated. Regardless of his performance, Casey has earned the right to see this season through. Let the captain go down with ship.


On as similar line of thinking, what is the latest point in the season a top four seed has fired their coach? Most firings seem to happen Dec-Feb, IF Casey was fired now, it would probably be a record in terms of how late a homecourt playoff team fired their coach. Not a record you want your franchise to set.

[ezz_bee]

Someone said this in another thread, but are we really more concerned with how the decision will be perceived that we are willing to risk the present / future of our team with this style of "coaching"? I would be willing to bet that 3/4 of people that follow the Raptors closely would not be upset if Casey was fired immediately. The rest of the NBA might be surprised, but they watch 1-2 raps games a year, if that.

What in sweet jesus are you talking about? What damage can Casey do in the next two months that cannot be undone by a coach in training camp/first two months of next year. Which any coach would still need even if we fired Casey now (unless we give the promoted coach a full year, which I am against).


I get Casey it. Casey needs to go, but firing right this second doesn't do our franchise any good, long or short term.

[Niagara Raptor]

i just want this nightmare to end

[Jangles]

What in sweet jesus are you talking about? What damage can Casey do in the next two months that cannot be undone by a coach in training camp/first two months of next year. Which any coach would still need even if we fired Casey now (unless we give the promoted coach a full year, which I am against).


I get Casey it. Casey needs to go, but firing right this second doesn't do our franchise any good, long or short term.

I respectfully disagree. With Casey at the helm, we might as well not have a coach at all. He has no control. The players are running the show and its become quite obvious. In my opinion, Casey has added flaws or encouraged flawed thinking / playing with several of our players. Why let this continue? Even if he is with the team an extra day, thats one extra day of him spewing garbage about effort, 7, 8, 9 guys, scramble, go go go, being punched in the mouth, etc, etc, etc. None of this actually helps our guys, but it may make it so that these shitty habits take longer to break in the future.

[raptors999]

MU should fire him now and promote an assistant as interim. It will allow MU to start talks with other coaches and have a new HC before Free Agency. If MU waits it makes hiring a new coach and signing FA harder. Whitman isnt stupid and he has Paul Pierce someone who already played on a team that shredded Caseys D. One adjustment and Raps can't answer. Whitman won't outcoach any other coach in the playoffs but Casey is terrible

[psrs1]

I'd be okay with DC, his bad offence and his reluctance to utilize JV, if our defence was back at the same level as last year. But for whatever reason (a hobbled Amir, trading of salmons (?!?), teams figuring us out, etc) we have really regressed this year on D. On the bright side, it looks like we'll be playing the Wizards in the first round which should be a cakewalk for us. They don't look anything like the wizards team of last year. But then again, we don't look like the 2013-2014 raptors either...

I just think that MU will make some significant moves this offseason after evaluating the team and since Lowry will still be around and maybe JV and DD, it'd make sense to keep DC as well for continuity purposes... UNLESS there is a bonafide head coach we can hire. No more of this promoting assistant coach or hiring based on potential business.

''Cakewalk'
'Keep DC'

Based on what?????

[Mediumcore]

When BC fired SMitch, I remember there were a lot of U.S. media talking about having fired a coach that was at that time coaching a team that was near .500 and wondering what the Raptors were doing as a franchise. Then came the disaster that was Triano. You fire a coach that has his team playing well over .500 and I think the media will nail the Raptors to the wall. I realize to the fans here whom follow the team closely it would not matter how the franchise is perceived, but to management that have been working on changing the image of the franchise throughout the league it would be a disaster. How would you attract veteran coaches or free agents with that sort of negative image of the franchise?

If it happens it would have to be in the off season and I personally think it would have to be for a sure fire upgrade. Because if they hire a nobody and the team goes through a Triano era flop then MU would be on the hot seat next.

[Letter N]

hahaha I love it. Join us and let the hate flow through you!

[raptors999]

When BC fired SMitch, I remember there were a lot of U.S. media talking about having fired a coach that was at that time coaching a team that was near .500 and wondering what the Raptors were doing as a franchise. Then came the disaster that was Triano. You fire a coach that has his team playing well over .500 and I think the media will nail the Raptors to the wall. I realize to the fans here whom follow the team closely it would not matter how the franchise is perceived, but to management that have been working on changing the image of the franchise throughout the league it would be a disaster. How would you attract veteran coaches or free agents with that sort of negative image of the franchise?

If it happens it would have to be in the off season and I personally think it would have to be for a sure fire upgrade. Because if they hire a nobody and the team goes through a Triano era flop then MU would be on the hot seat next.

Media thinks Whitman and Thibs will be gone and no one is crucifying them. One has reached a second round and the other has reached the playoffs every year. Nobody thinks Casey is anything but terrible.

[Mediumcore]

hahaha I love it. Join us and let the hate flow through you!

LOL, oh I still don't think there is any point to firing him or that he deserves it. I still feel like this roster is really far away from needing a coaching change because I see this team as I do the Bucks or Charlotte for example. Not very good, and nowhere near competing for a title.

However when a team regresses the way the Raptors have I think someone has to take the fall for it. Coach is usually the first man up. I'm still hoping they can get their defense together in time for playoffs.

[Mediumcore]

Media thinks Whitman and Thibs will be gone and no one is crucifying them. One has reached a second round and the other has reached the playoffs every year. Nobody thinks Casey is anything but terrible.

Nobody reacts to people thinking anyone is going to be fired. The reaction happens once someone gets fired.

[Cody73]

I say after playoffs too guys.


But all in all, don't keep him around next year.

[planetmars]

Remember how pissed off VC got when the Raptors front office was in shambles? This franchise needs stability and MU was supposed to deliver that.. it was why Casey got resigned.. it was why most of the players (minus AB) came back.

Firing Casey now is a panic move.. a move that is only made by desperate unstable franchises. This team was never going to have success in the playoffs. They don't have the talent for it. The 2nd round was supposed to be their ceiling. That may still happen. If not, well it just makes it easier for Masai to fire Casey and move on.

I say wait until the season ends, and then send him packing. He's a bad coach but a nice guy and appears to be well respected by his colleagues. Carlisle raves about him, and Carlisle is one of the top 5 coaches in the league. Screw with Casey and I'm pretty sure it will come back to bite them.

[Pong]

''Cakewalk'
'Keep DC'

Based on what?????

Err based on our history playing against washington...? We've always played well and won against washington while we've consistently struggled against charlotte. We've even lost against Bucks this year when they didn't have brandon knight.

The entire wizards team has been struggling this year after making some headway in the playoffs last year. Wall might turn it around come playoffs but he's been really struggling lately. Beal hasn't been healthy. PP might turn it up a notch come playoffs but without ariza, their wing defence is not as good. We even have JJ now to check PP if he decides to go Joe Johnson on us in the playoffs.

As for the DC remark, I already wrote it in my response. Unless we get someone good, it doesn't make sense to fire him. Look at our last 3 coaches. We haven't hired a head coach with good head coaching experience in the NBA. There's no point firing DC if we end up promoting another assistant as a permanent head coach for the next couple seasons. While our on court system is quite flawed, he appears to have done quite well off court with the guys. There's been little to no issues in the locker room that we've heard off, even now when the team is struggling. You can give credit to the 'locker room' type guys in the team, but DC definitely has had a hand in this.