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  • #76
    McRealistic wrote: View Post
    Giannis Antetokounmpo : Dec6 1994
    Bruno: Sept 21 1995

    Age difference: 10 month ...

    Now tell me why do I hate to wait till 2016-2017 to assess his talents and not next year ??

    Spot the difference between the two:

    Giannis rookie game log: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo...-antetokounmpo

    Bruno rookie game log: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo.../bruno-caboclo

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    • #77
      Fully wrote: View Post
      To be fair, it's probably less absurd than casting JV in the Duncan role of a Spurs style offence.
      They've been running some motion stuff with JV. He's done fine in those sets. And, to be fair, Amir and Patterson are both good passers and easily fit into motion sets. They also run a lot of action out of horns and JV is comfortable reading counters in those scenarios.

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      • #78
        Fully wrote: View Post
        Duncan was never a super efficient player? I think the forums have officially jumped the shark. You need to realize there's more to "efficiency" than just a true shooting percentage.

        And no, JV can not command a role where he's constantly flashing, catching, making reads and distributing the ball to cutters and on kick outs… at least not yet. He's one of the least prolific passers in all of basketball and is still prone to turnovers anytime he has to put the ball on the ground.
        It's like you haven't even watched him or the team play before.

        Whenever JV is given the opportunity to pass, as bigs are very rarely able to create an opportunity, he has shown a very strong and accurate pass. Typically though when JV gets the ball the whole team freezes and stands in place. Noah couldn't do anything in that situation.

        Similar issues as to when he puts it on the floor, no team movement lets defenders drop down on him and swipe away. Even with that being the system he has a pretty good TO % compared to the league.

        And yet, last couple games he has made a few nice passes leading to good looks when we get some movement, he put the ball on the floor to attack the rim and got his look off.

        It boggles my mind that you think he is one of the "least prolific passers in all of basketball" much less just the NBA, when every opportunity he is given he has shown that he is at worst a very serviceable big man passer.

        Get that Gahbage outte here!

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        • #79
          Some interesting stuff in this thread. A couple of things pop into my mind after reading it. 1. The difference between building 'around' and building 'with'. Is there a single player on this team worth building around? Maybe JV, and I'm sure an easy argument can be made that he is not a franchise guy that you can actually build around. To me, he seems to be the only guy on this team that you may be willing to design an offensive and defensive system 'around' and feel like it has a chance at success. But JV isn't a Shaq, or Durant, LBJ, Duncan etc etc type player. He is not a clear franchise guy with otherwordly talent and capability that is a no brainer talent to build around. Now, maybe he could be, and I think he has alot of potential and could certainly be one of the best at his position in the near future. But right now, building 'around' him would be risky.

          So can you build with him? of course, and the same can be said of other players on the team as well. And this comes back to OldSchoolCool's question about style of play the team should employ going forward. There are styles of play you can employ and be relatively confidant in it's ability to succeed when you have the type of player you can build 'around'. The style the Raps use is one of them, yet we don't have a franchise guy on the perimeter, or at all. So our style really needs a major facelift. And if we were to get this facelift, I think there are a few players on this team you can build with, most being the core I posted earlier. And this comes to my second point.

          2. Offensive options. We often describe a player as being option 1 through 5 on the offensive end. On this team, I guess Lowry and Derozan are 1 or 2, JV 3, Ross 4 and Amir 5 for the starting unit. I'm not sure what this means, but to me it comes back to the style of play. The idea of designating a player as option whatever is indicative of a more individual and ISO style of ball. In some ways I guess, it refers to who gets the ball to initiate the offence, and for the Raps, it reflects who is taking the shots. Lowry and/or DErozan will attempt to break the D, if that doesn't work then it's JV's turn, and if not we try and get a shot for Ross or Amir. This seems like a very limited approach to offence, especially considering we do not rotate through the options in a single possession. It's your turn Lowry, and no worries if you can't get into the paint, just take a contested turn around fadeaway and next possession we'll let DD or JV take a turn. But how would you describe ATL's roster in this manner? How about OKC's? The difference is some teams can clearly be described as having options, which usually go from most offensively gifted to least offensively gifted, and if you're OKC that's fine, because the team is built that way 'around' two incredibly gifted superstars. But if you're ATL, you can't take this approach because you have no superstars and no one player that is basically impossible to stop. And that is how the Raps need to start playing. There are no 'options' on this team as currently constructed. There is just a bunch of good to great players that need to play in a team based system that attempts to get good looks for each of the players on the court at different times. And it shouldn't be limited to creating off the dribble from one of our guards. I mean, Ross could be described as option 3 on this team, if the offence was designed to consistently get him good looks ala Korver in ATL. Same could be said of Patterson when he is on the floor, if we operated in a way that got Patterson good open looks. But we don't do this. We play an option based system, and Patterson and Ross usually only get looks when one of our top options can't create a shot for themselves. There has to be less "I will pass when I can't get a good look" and more " I will bend the D to get Patterson that open 3". Also, more play calling and sets run for our less utilized offensive weapons. Imagine JV was given the ball in the post and the whole point of the offensive action was to get Ross an open 3pt shot? That is how ATL plays ball. And that is how we need to play ball.

          All that being said, I think JV, Lowry and Demar are players you can build 'with' going forward. Patterson too, and in the right system I think other players on the team may be worth keeping. At this point, it's hard to judge when the system we employ is soo flawed as to actually make players look worse than they probably are. How the hell is Bruno gonna fit into Casey's system?

          Comment


          • #80
            The idea of a "core" is something that begins and ends, more or less, with star players or players who are superstar-level at certain things (Kyle Korver and Danny Green are excellent examples of the latter). The point being: "core" players are innately hard to replace.

            Bearing that in mind: Bruno, Bebe, Daniels and future draft picks aren't "core," because we don't know who they are yet. Players who can be easily replaced aren't "core," so there goes Ross (can be effectively duplicated by Wes Matthews, Aaron Afflalo, Tobias Harris, Wilson Chandler, DeMarre Carroll - and those are just the most obvious free agents) and GV and Amir and the entire bench.

            Basically the only guys on the team who would be truly difficult to replace are JV, Kyle, DeMar and maybe 2Pat. But then you get to the next issue, which is that perhaps DeMar and Kyle aren't optimal for co-existing since they're both ball-dominant guards. So are they both "core"? The answer is "I have no idea."

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            • #81
              Casey not being MU choice as coach is reflected in the draft. MU seems to emphasis shooting and length things that a typical 4+1 SVG offense uses vs guards who penetrate

              Comment


              • #82
                McRealistic wrote: View Post
                Giannis Antetokounmpo : Dec6 1994
                Bruno: Sept 21 1995

                Age difference: 10 month ...

                Now tell me why do I hate to wait till 2016-2017 to assess his talents and not next year ??
                Giannis also played in the youth Greek leagues, and in the pro Greek 2nd league before entering the NBA. Bruno started playing ball at age 13 at what is essentially a Brazilian boys and girls club. He came in much more raw than Giannis. Also, as McHappy pointed out, Giannis played almost every game as a rookie and averaged 24 minutes, despite looking raw and lost most of the time. That playing time is obviously paying off pretty big now. Unfortunately, we had a playoff squad without much if any development minutes available, so Bruno is going to take longer for several reasons. If you wanna shit all over Bruno in 3 years then I won't question it.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  Why is Giannis considered a fair comparison? Because they both have long arms?
                  No because they are both almost same age ... Bruno has had a full year in NBA, under NBA coaches by next year. If he has any talent, he should show us some flashes next year ...

                  Next year is his year to show off what he is build of. No one is expecting him to come in and score 10 puts a game and grab 5 rebounds. No one is expecting him to come in and tear it up next year BUT he needs to come in and show more than he has this year.

                  He needs to come in and show that he understands the game and is worth the investment.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    slaw wrote: View Post
                    You don't have to wait to do anything. You are free to make premature judgments based on inane comparisons without reference to, or understanding of, context or circumstances all you want.
                    I think after one year in NBA and under NBA coaching and all the facilities that are available, Bruno needs to show us more than just his long arms and show us that he has some game that is worth investing on and giving minute to.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                      Spot the difference between the two:

                      Giannis rookie game log: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo...-antetokounmpo

                      Bruno rookie game log: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo.../bruno-caboclo
                      I am not asking Bruno to come in and take over games and does what Giannis does this year but I am expecting him to show us flashes of his talent.

                      This year has been all about fans drooling about his length and his long arms and nothing more !!! Zero !!! Every minute that he got in D-league and in NBA has been a massive disappointment.

                      I want him to show me he improved after being here for one year. I want him to show me he gets it and he belongs because clearly, right now, the only similarity he has to NBA player is his height.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Primer wrote: View Post
                        If you wanna shit all over Bruno in 3 years then I won't question it.
                        No one is trying to SHIT on him. But having ZERO expectations is quite ridiculous as well.

                        Improvements do not happen over night. It is not like, Bruno is going to SUCK for 3 years and suddenly in 2017, he will tear it up.

                        I want to see improvements as small as it may be. I want him to show me that he can play even 5 minutes in garbage time in NBA next season. Right now, he can not even do that.
                        Heck, he could not even play in D-league.
                        He has the crazy resources of NBA team for one year available to him. If he has talent and work ethics, we should be able to see some improvements from him next year.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          McRealistic wrote: View Post
                          I am not asking Bruno to come in and take over games and does what Giannis does this year but I am expecting him to show us flashes of his talent.

                          This year has been all about fans drooling about his length and his long arms and nothing more !!! Zero !!! Every minute that he got in D-league and in NBA has been a massive disappointment.

                          I want him to show me he improved after being here for one year. I want him to show me he gets it and he belongs because clearly, right now, the only similarity he has to NBA player is his height.
                          Every minute he's been a disappointment? Pretty sure that first game when he scored a block, an alley-oop dunk and a pair of treys was far from disappointing.

                          D-League means nothing. We don't own the team, control who plays, or what system/development exists. D-League is irrelevant to us until we get our own team.

                          Overly dramatic posting.
                          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            McRealistic wrote: View Post
                            I am not asking Bruno to come in and take over games and does what Giannis does this year but I am expecting him to show us flashes of his talent.

                            This year has been all about fans drooling about his length and his long arms and nothing more !!! Zero !!! Every minute that he got in D-league and in NBA has been a massive disappointment.

                            I want him to show me he improved after being here for one year. I want him to show me he gets it and he belongs because clearly, right now, the only similarity he has to NBA player is his height.
                            I don't know. That first game was pretty sick wicked and nasty. Two 3s and an pop?

                            As for my original reply, let me make it clearer since you missed the point. Check the game logs, minutes played and number of games actually played. Both links are for rookie seasons.

                            It is dramatic difference in rookie experiences to say the least.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Axel wrote: View Post
                              Every minute he's been a disappointment? Pretty sure that first game when he scored a block, an alley-oop dunk and a pair of treys was far from disappointing.

                              D-League means nothing. We don't own the team, control who plays, or what system/development exists. D-League is irrelevant to us until we get our own team.

                              Overly dramatic posting.
                              Or what Acel said

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                                Or what Acel said




                                +1 awesomeness for anyone who gets the reference
                                Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                                If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

                                Comment

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