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Thread: They Say They Care But They Don't

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default They Say They Care But They Don't

    Here's Doug's take after the game:

    You know what I needed to see after that game?

    I needed to see a table of food turned over, or someone’s locker destroyed, or someone screaming in anger.

    But, no.

    We had guys talking about winning the next two (as if) and seeing what Chicago does and how the season isn’t lost because there are still games to play.

    I know Jay wasn’t going to do it – it’s not in his nature and that’s simply a fact of life, anyone expecting otherwise is fooling himself – and maybe that’s an issue.

    But it’s the player’s lack of passion and anger that was really shocking.

    Yes, Jarrett said something about the Bulls coming in and taking it to the Raptors and Jose was quite up front about how badly the Raptors played.

    But just like in the 48 minutes of basketball before, there wasn’t a lot of anger or passion or whatever you want to call it.

    Too bad.

    Too telling.
    Doug Smith's Toronto Raptors blog


    The Raptors say one thing but do another. I am a strong believer that only 10% of communication is achieved through words. 90% of the Raptors communications says they don't give a damn about the playoffs and just want summer vacation to start yesterday.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptor Jesus's Avatar
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    I'm going to first call out Doug for being a Homer this season and not reporting on the obvious rift that exist. If not (and believe me it's there) between the players and staff, then, the staff and management.

    But he's still correct in his evaluation that this team has no heart. Never had in my opinion. But when the fans and media are fed bullshit like this is a 50 win team, and Bosh is and will be the face of our franchise, when neither is true, and I'd go so far as to say he isn't worth signing for half the money (for various reasons), expectations are built, dogmas occur and cultist belief runs rampant. Then accountability and rectification seem over blown and undue.

    The best outcome from this season is MLSE thinking with their wallets and forcing BC to cut CB, HT, JT, JC, and MI loose. The raps living at the bottom of the east until we can offload AB in 2015. And building a proper basketball team.

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    For me i think we lack experience as a team... when i mean lack i mean...we don't stick to the team for the whole freakin 2 year + ... every player can play defense ...including Calderon ... we need to play as a team ....

    Thats why OKA, Spurs, Portland, Jazz....etc became so successful they kept most of their players intact and added one more piece or one more draft pick!!!

    The raps need to find their identity ... you can't expect team to go for a run to the playoffs with a massive changes every freaking year...
    Last edited by KakashiPrince; Mon Apr 12th, 2010 at 11:29 AM.

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    Spend too much time talking about intangible problems and you'll lose sight of tangible problems that can more readily be fixed.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    When a GM makes critical mistakes every year drastic changes are needed every year. I think Colangelo has the tools to do a very good job as a GM but he needs a change in philosophy. Defense is critical to success. Contrary to the above post I feel that some players just are not capable of being good defenders, just like some guys aren't capable of being strong scorers. Hustle is important, playing with your teammates is important but there are other important factors that you need to be a good defender those center around athleticism and character.

    If someone can show me an example of a team who played piss poor defense, made no rosters moves and together they became an outstanding defensive team because of gaining team experience then I would be greatly impressed.
    Last edited by Apollo; Mon Apr 12th, 2010 at 11:41 AM.

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    Doesn't OKC fit the bill?

    They were defensively awful last year, made little changes and now just a year later are one of the better defensive teams in the league.

    Not that I am advocating the raptors could/would/should keep thier roster in tact.

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    Oklahoma benefited from a couple of things:

    (1) Thabo Sefolosha was acquired midway through last season, instantly made a big impact defensively, and, this season has become the best stopper on the perimeter in the NBA. Over the course of a full season he was going to improve them considerably.
    (2) Westbrook was a talented but inexperienced defensive point guard who's impact was lowered through rookie miscues. He was a solid defender who was about to become a top five defender at his position ... and he beat out expectations by becoming, by far, the best defensive PG in the league this year.
    (3) Defense was the next stage in Durant's improvement and he went from being one of the worst defensive players in the NBA to being average to slightly above average.
    (4) Serge Ibaka joined the team. He is a good defensive big man.

    I am surprised Oklahoma was able to improve as much as they have (20th to 8th) this year but they were clearly going to make a big leap (slightly above average at least). There were plenty of signs that pointed towards that prior to the season.

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    As for the Raptors, where do you see improvement coming from?

    I expect Bargnani to continue his gradual progression defensively. Low level improvement and consequently little impact but a positive impact nonetheless. I have no expectation of improvement from Bosh, Jack, Hedo or Calderon (although I do if Bargnani isn't here and if Bargs is replaced with a defensive minded player). I expect Amir to largely comparable defensively if in the same role, although, I would expect improvement throughout the season if he was given 28-32 minutes a night.

    The two players I would look to for improvement are DeRozan and Weems. I expect DeRozan, like Durant, to become a mediocre to slightly above average defender next season. Good improvement there. And I am hoping for Weems to become a good-to-very good defender next season.

    Then fire Jay Triano and replace him with a more capable coach defensively.

    Overall, talent wise, I think that pushes into 22nd-26th range defensively. Still poor but nowhere near the league worst place they're currently at.

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    Quote Dave wrote: View Post
    As for the Raptors, where do you see improvement coming from?

    I expect Bargnani to continue his gradual progression defensively. Low level improvement and consequently little impact but a positive impact nonetheless. I have no expectation of improvement from Bosh, Jack, Hedo or Calderon (although I do if Bargnani isn't here and if Bargs is replaced with a defensive minded player). I expect Amir to largely comparable defensively if in the same role, although, I would expect improvement throughout the season if he was given 28-32 minutes a night.

    The two players I would look to for improvement are DeRozan and Weems. I expect DeRozan, like Durant, to become a mediocre to slightly above average defender next season. Good improvement there. And I am hoping for Weems to become a good-to-very good defender next season.

    Then fire Jay Triano and replace him with a more capable coach defensively.

    Overall, talent wise, I think that pushes into 22nd-26th range defensively. Still poor but nowhere near the league worst place they're currently at.
    As an aside -- swap Bargnani with Varejao and I think the Raptors are 12th-15th in defensive efficiency next season.

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    I needed to see a table of food turned over, or someone’s locker destroyed, or someone screaming in anger
    .

    If Smith really wrote this than he is more mentally dysfunctional than I thought.

    When you get out experienced at a higher level of competition; i.e. playoff intensity by a team with just as much if not more talent you don't go around destroying things. That is what an infant does.

    You watch the films learn from your mistakes and try your hardest in the future to do better using the experience that you gained through your prior defeat.

    Smith is really one messed up dude if he did write that.

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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    .

    If Smith really wrote this than he is more mentally dysfunctional than I thought.

    When you get out experienced at a higher level of competition; i.e. playoff intensity by a team with just as much if not more talent you don't go around destroying things. That is what an infant does.

    You watch the films learn from your mistakes and try your hardest in the future to do better using the experience that you gained through your prior defeat.

    Smith is really one messed up dude if he did write that.
    Well said. Maybe he had one too many of his "favourite beverages". What a juvenile thing to say about 13 guys who average 4-5 mill a season. If DS is going to be a beat writer he should just stick with the game details rather than delving into how players should react etc etc.

    Leave the opinion to Feschuk who had a more to-the-point piece today. He has it right.

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    Quote Faithleader wrote: View Post
    For me i think we lack experience as a team... when i mean lack i mean...we don't stick to the team for the whole freakin 2 year + ... every player can play defense ...including Calderon ... we need to play as a team ....

    Thats why OKA, Spurs, Portland, Jazz....etc became so successful they kept most of their players intact and added one more piece or one more draft pick!!!

    The raps need to find their identity ... you can't expect team to go for a run to the playoffs with a massive changes every freaking year...
    You're right we do need more stability. But if I could just add something.
    In almost every situation a teams identity comes from the character and play style of their best player and the head coach.
    In the Raptors case our star player is very effective on the offensive end and a good not great rebounder.
    As for Bosh's defensive instinct and hustle, he's never had much. And at this point I can't see his defense getting much better.
    Triano is an extremely passive coach who seems more like BC's puppet than anything close to a respectable, smart basketball guy. It's really too bad because he's just further proving the Canadian stereotype of a country who's too nice and lead around by Americans.
    In order for us to become a decent team. I agree with Raptor Jesus. It may be time to drop all our so called leaders of this team including BC and start from scratch. Man, does that ever hurt to say that.

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    OKC definitely benefited from adding Thabo, who is just a joy to watch. I thought OKC would drastically improve this year and make the play offs, but not even the biggest OKC homer could of predicted the night and day turn around.

    The raps could easily make a significant turn around from one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA history to a mediocre one by next season. The key is to upgrade defensively without losing too much offensively.

    Derozan just needs more reps on the court and especially in the gym. Simply being paired with Weems is going to exponentially increase the development of both of thier games. I want them both to play in the summer league, but I don't see how that helps improve their defense.

    The key is to never play 3 of the euros at the same time and if possible unload one or two of them. When they are on the floor, everyone is so worried about helping that no one seems to stay in front of thier man and the rotations are so slow that there is always open shooters parked out on the 3 point line.

    A starting line up of Jack, Derozan, Weems, Amir, Bargs will do wonders towards improving effort on the defensive side of the ball. Bring Jose and Turk off the bench against slower second units and hopefully thier defensive inefficiencies will be more than off set by thier offensive prowess.

    The raps need a coach that will push the young guns to another level and ensure thier development doesn't stall.

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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    Doesn't OKC fit the bill?

    They were defensively awful last year, made little changes and now just a year later are one of the better defensive teams in the league.

    Not that I am advocating the raptors could/would/should keep thier roster in tact.
    They had a bunch of young athletic guys who had potential to play good D but were still learning. They also made trades, moved guys in and out. I don't think its a fair comparison. Westbrook has physical gifts that Calderon or Jack can only dream of. Hedo isn't willing even if he's able. Bargnani is a wild card... If the light stops going out he could be a good defender. Either way, I don't think the Thunder is the correct answer to the question.

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    Quote Hellgate wrote: View Post
    As for Bosh's defensive instinct and hustle, he's never had much. And at this point I can't see his defense getting much better.
    I think Bosh would improve his defense considerably if he was on a defensive minded team + had plenty of talented defenders around him + preferably had decreased offensive responsibilities.

    I think Bosh would become a consistent good-to-very good defensive player in that environment. I think Miami can offer that to Bosh. I'd like to see him in that situation.
    Last edited by Dave; Mon Apr 12th, 2010 at 01:56 PM.

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    I think wherever Bosh goes will immediately become a legitimate title contender.

    Its ironic that BC built around Bosh in the worst possible way. Surrounding him with gifted offensive players with a one way mentality. Bosh can carry a team offensively and proved he can anchor a great defensive team (redeem team). There isn't a worse team in the NBA for him to be on. He scores almost all of his points creating and initiating his own offense.

    Give him a penetrating point guard and defensive minded center and there is no telling how his career could pan out.

    He would be nuts to resign here and BC would be equally nuts to resign him. The current construction of the team is as poorly suited to maximize his gifts as possible.

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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    Give him a penetrating point guard and defensive minded center and there is no telling how his career could pan out.
    So you think he's going to the Bulls?

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    I think the bulls make the most sense for him and they have a lot of pieces to offer back via S and T.

    Amare is likely going heat and the bulls could sell Bosh on being the best big man in franchise history. He gets to be the guy that gets them over the hump and playing alongside Noah is probably the ideal centre for him in the league.

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    Uhh this team sucks why would we want them around for another 2 years.


    Quote Faithleader wrote: View Post
    For me i think we lack experience as a team... when i mean lack i mean...we don't stick to the team for the whole freakin 2 year + ... every player can play defense ...including Calderon ... we need to play as a team ....

    Thats why OKA, Spurs, Portland, Jazz....etc became so successful they kept most of their players intact and added one more piece or one more draft pick!!!

    The raps need to find their identity ... you can't expect team to go for a run to the playoffs with a massive changes every freaking year...

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    Quote Faithleader wrote: View Post
    For me i think we lack experience as a team... when i mean lack i mean...we don't stick to the team for the whole freakin 2 year + ... every player can play defense ...including Calderon ... we need to play as a team ....

    Thats why OKA, Spurs, Portland, Jazz....etc became so successful they kept most of their players intact and added one more piece or one more draft pick!!!

    The raps need to find their identity ... you can't expect team to go for a run to the playoffs with a massive changes every freaking year...
    Quote Hellgate wrote: View Post
    You're right we do need more stability. But if I could just add something.
    In almost every situation a teams identity comes from the character and play style of their best player and the head coach.
    In the Raptors case our star player is very effective on the offensive end and a good not great rebounder.
    As for Bosh's defensive instinct and hustle, he's never had much. And at this point I can't see his defense getting much better.
    Triano is an extremely passive coach who seems more like BC's puppet than anything close to a respectable, smart basketball guy. It's really too bad because he's just further proving the Canadian stereotype of a country who's too nice and lead around by Americans.
    In order for us to become a decent team. I agree with Raptor Jesus. It may be time to drop all our so called leaders of this team including BC and start from scratch. Man, does that ever hurt to say that.
    Thats meticulous, BC is what makes the Raptors fun to watch!

    Even though he is relatively a rookie, I believe he will learn quickly.

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    Quote mo-sales wrote: View Post
    OKC definitely benefited from adding Thabo, who is just a joy to watch. I thought OKC would drastically improve this year and make the play offs, but not even the biggest OKC homer could of predicted the night and day turn around.

    The raps could easily make a significant turn around from one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA history to a mediocre one by next season. The key is to upgrade defensively without losing too much offensively.

    Derozan just needs more reps on the court and especially in the gym. Simply being paired with Weems is going to exponentially increase the development of both of thier games. I want them both to play in the summer league, but I don't see how that helps improve their defense.

    The key is to never play 3 of the euros at the same time and if possible unload one or two of them. When they are on the floor, everyone is so worried about helping that no one seems to stay in front of thier man and the rotations are so slow that there is always open shooters parked out on the 3 point line.

    A starting line up of Jack, Derozan, Weems, Amir, Bargs will do wonders towards improving effort on the defensive side of the ball. Bring Jose and Turk off the bench against slower second units and hopefully thier defensive inefficiencies will be more than off set by thier offensive prowess.

    The raps need a coach that will push the young guns to another level and ensure thier development doesn't stall.
    we need to get rid of ALL the Euros preferably, but I'll take Calderon if one has to stay.

    Jack, Derozan, Weems, Amir, Bargs?

    I wouldn't count on that team to do much of anything.

    The only players that should be kept on this team are Bosh, Jack, Derozan and Weems. Forget Amir, he will want too much money for what he is. Also we have expirings like Evans, Banks, Marco next year. And Wright, Amir, Rasho this year.

    Hopefully we will miss the playoffs and retain that pick and grab someone decent.

    I am confident that this team can be turned around quickly if Bosh stays. But if he goes, then we'll be in the lottery for a few years.

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