Would you rather a first round win or #FireCasey?

[Jrice9]

Simple analogy: I'd rather see my 1 and a half year old try to walk and repeatedly fall, rather than get incredibly great at crawling fast. That's a bad habit that needs to be broken. So, people are not happy that the Raps are losing, they're hoping it leads to a more responsible parent getting custody of the child.

Except this example is more like wanting your child to break their hand so they are forced not to crawl.

[raptors999]

Except this example is more like wanting your child to break their hand so they are forced not to crawl.

Either way, it's clear that people on this board should not be watching children without supervision

[JawsGT]

Looking at Wizard boards they want the Raptors to demolish the Wiz so they can fire the GM and coach. Raps want likewise to fire Casey. It's a Clash of the Titans

lol, Raps fans cheering for the Wiz, and Wiz fans cheering for the Raps. Something's wrong with this situation no?

[KeonClark]

lol, Raps fans cheering for the Wiz, and Wiz fans cheering for the Raps. Something's wrong with this situation no?

Very.

[planetmars]

lol, Raps fans cheering for the Wiz, and Wiz fans cheering for the Raps. Something's wrong with this situation no?

There is short term success and long term success. They do not have to be mutually exclusive but sometimes they are. If losing in the short term results in change, and that change leads to long term success then that could be a good thing. Short term success with long term failure might be okay assuming short term success is better then just a 2nd round appearance.

I'm pro winning when it comes to playoffs.. and I don't think our GM would consider keeping the same team (including the coach) next season in case they do get to the 2nd round.. but sometimes a loss can create change and fans can get behind that. After all the real goal is to win a championship which sometimes requires a long view and not a short view.

So I don't think there is anything wrong with that. To me it makes a lot of sense. As "winning" is not always a good thing.

Washington and Toronto both need new coaches.. and fans believe that a loss could force upper management to make a change sooner then later. I still believe in Masai though, so personally I'd rather win. If BC was still here then I'd be on the other side of the fence most likely.

[Scraptor]

There is short term success and long term success. They do not have to be mutually exclusive but sometimes they are. If losing in the short term results in change, and that change leads to long term success then that could be a good thing. Short term success with long term failure might be okay assuming short term success is better then just a 2nd round appearance.

I'm pro winning when it comes to playoffs.. and I don't think our GM would consider keeping the same team (including the coach) next season in case they do get to the 2nd round.. but sometimes a loss can create change and fans can get behind that. After all the real goal is to win a championship which sometimes requires a long view and not a short view.

So I don't think there is anything wrong with that. To me it makes a lot of sense. As "winning" is not always a good thing.

Washington and Toronto both need new coaches.. and fans believe that a loss could force upper management to make a change sooner then later. I still believe in Masai though, so personally I'd rather win. If BC was still here then I'd be on the other side of the fence most likely.

This is the most important distinction, short-term vs long-term. It's the main reason I find organizational tanking acceptable given the current CBA.

I will never, ever cheer for the Raptors to lose.

But if we do lose, I will take comfort in that it could lead to change. Whether that's a better draft pick or getting rid of a bad coach, the consolations of short-term losses can be pretty bright when it comes to long-term winning.

[psrs1]

We are more likely to win first round vs Milwaukee. I used to be of the camp wanting to play WASh but now believe Wash can beat us . For guys like DD I think getting to second round is an important developmental step. I don't relush getting destroyed by Cavs but seeing what it takes to be a championship contender is not a bad thing.

[raptors999]

We are more likely to win first round vs Milwaukee. I used to be of the camp wanting to play WASh but now believe Wash can beat us . For guys like DD I think getting to second round is an important developmental step. I don't relush getting destroyed by Cavs but seeing what it takes to be a championship contender is not a bad thing.

If Demar wants to get to another round , stop chucking. Bucks are almost the perfect Raptor killer. They are completely incapable of scoring but Raps can't defend. They are extremely long and trap guards very well. In areas that matter they are better than BKN. Wizard live and die on Wall's back

[DC30]

Looking at Wizard boards they want the Raptors to demolish the Wiz so they can fire the GM and coach. Raps want likewise to fire Casey. It's a Clash of the Titans

And Bulls fans want Thibs fired, and many Cavs fans want their coach out too. If you look hard enough you'll likely find someone who feels Pop is past his prime in San Antonio and another who feels Kerr is underachieving with Golden State. There is a reason why we are fans and these coaches actually work in the industry.

[raptors999]

And Bulls fans want Thibs fired, and many Cavs fans want their coach out too. If you look hard enough you'll likely find someone who feels Pop is past his prime in San Antonio and another who feels Kerr is underachieving with Golden State. There is a reason why we are fans and these coaches actually work in the industry.

Every one of those have .600 winning % and with the exception of Kerr have won somewhere. Thibs and Kerr have had elite defenses in the NBA to the point where team have copied the Bulls defense. In fact everyone except Blatt have done something other teams try to emulate. No one is trying to recreate the Raptors system. Even non-critics point to the shoddy defense and this is the upteemth year where inefficiency has been the description of the offense, in this case the trio of Lou, DD and Lowry all around 40%. Using actual head coaches with accomplishments as a comparison to Casey doesn't really help, especially when two are first year coaches and this is Casey's fourth in Toronto and sixth in the league.

[DC30]

Every one of those have .600 winning % and with the exception of Kerr have won somewhere. Thibs and Kerr have had elite defenses in the NBA to the point where team have copied the Bulls defense. In fact everyone except Blatt have done something other teams try to emulate. No one is trying to recreate the Raptors system. Even non-critics point to the shoddy defense and this is the upteemth year where inefficiency has been the description of the offense, in this case the trio of Lou, DD and Lowry all around 40%. Using actual head coaches with accomplishments as a comparison to Casey doesn't really help, especially when two are first year coaches and this is Casey's fourth in Toronto and sixth in the league.

Raptors999 I totally get your point, Im simply suggesting we are watching and not a part of the league for a reason. We cant possibly know everything that goes into this process. I ask again, like my original post a couple of days back...which team in the East that is above us record wise, do we have better personnel than? Just what position should we be in the East? 1st, 2nd? If you cannot say we are better than those teams, then what foundation is there to fire Casey? Because you would then need to claim we are somehow underachieving relative to our personnel. An honest question, not asking to rile anyone up.

[raptors999]

Raptors999 I totally get your point, Im simply suggesting we are watching and not a part of the league for a reason. We cant possibly know everything that goes into this process. I ask again, like my original post a couple of days back...which team in the East that is above us record wise, do we have better personnel than? Just what position should we be in the East? 1st, 2nd? If you cannot say we are better than those teams, then what foundation is there to fire Casey? Because you would then need to claim we are somehow underachieving relative to our personnel. An honest question, not asking to rile anyone up.

Raptors aren't a team that should be evaluated by the W-L record. Primary goals were to improve internally , win a playoff round and have something to build upon. Instead the style of play completely requires no internal improvements offensively or defensively, tries to maximize wins against poor teams to have a better regular season record and requires a completely new system next season. Even teams with worse records will improve as better players develop or are brought in.

The problem is even if Jimmy Butler replaced Ross as the SG,SF it is still a scrambling defense, replace JV with Anthony Davis he is still covering two players as the double leaves someone open. If the best players in the league replaced every roster spot the way they play still isn't good. They could accomplish more, with less effort and better results. There is a reason why nobody has played like the Raptors since the Iverson 76ers

[Jrice9]

Thibs hasn't won elsewhere actually.

He won in Boston as an assistant and DC but so did Casey in Dallas.

In his term in Chicago (where he took over a much better team though injuries have made them weaker though he may be partially responsible for injury issues) they've gone to the ECF, lost in Round 1, Lost in Round 2, lost in Round 1.

Not saying Casey is a better coach than him (he isn't) but its a weaker argument

[raptors999]

Thibs hasn't won elsewhere actually.

He won in Boston as an assistant and DC but so did Casey in Dallas.

In his term in Chicago (where he took over a much better team though injuries have made them weaker though he may be partially responsible for injury issues) they've gone to the ECF, lost in Round 1, Lost in Round 2, lost in Round 1.

Not saying Casey is a better coach than him (he isn't) but its a weaker argument

He won in the NBA as a head coach

[raptors999]

He won in the NBA as a head coach

Not a championship but multiple series against an actual NBA head coach.