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  • Mindlessness wrote: View Post
    ...we can still acquire sauce.
    Sauce for Prime Minister!

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    • 1.) trade Ross
      2.) let Fields, Hayes, and Hansbrough expire
      3.) resign Hayes to vet minimum
      4.) fire Casey
      5.) hire Ettore Messina
      6.) start Patterson alongside James Johnson
      7.) install an offense. Lowry, DeMar, JJ and 2Pat would absolutely thrive in an offense where the ball moves. I thought we were headed towards The Spurs Way before this season began. This ISO shit does not work anymore. It relies on a couple of guys having a good night.
      For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

      Comment


      • thead wrote: View Post
        1.) trade Ross
        2.) let Fields, Hayes, and Hansbrough expire
        3.) resign Hayes to vet minimum
        4.) fire Casey
        5.) hire Ettore Messina
        6.) start Patterson alongside James Johnson
        7.) install an offense. Lowry, DeMar, JJ and 2Pat would absolutely thrive in an offense where the ball moves. I thought we were headed towards The Spurs Way before this season began. This ISO shit does not work anymore. It relies on a couple of guys having a good night.
        I am 100% against this plan.

        1) Why trade him now. His value is ZERO and he is on a rookie contract. Why not see him under the new coach?
        2) Agree 100%.
        3) Who cares !!! Enough with the chemistry talks.
        4) Agree 100%
        5) Not sure if he is the best option.
        6) Not enough talent at SF and PF. Both guys are great bench players and not starters in the league. At least not at this stage of their career.
        7) Ball movement and lowry, This will be another failed experiment and another waste of a time. The starting line up of (Lowry, DeMar, JJ, 2Pat and JV) does not enough talent to get pass the first round in East play offs.

        We need more talents and better fitting PG.

        Comment


        • I totally get the Ettore Messina desires that everyone has. But be careful assuming that equals success. He comes here without Duncan, Ginobli, Kwahi, and Parker. How is Phil Jackson doing in NY without Jordan or Kobe? How have all of Bill Belichick's assistant to Head Coaches made out in the NFL without Tom Brady? At the end of the day guys, its about the players. So I agree that a culture change from a winning organization to Toronto may be a positive, it does not necessarily equate to success. We have no idea if he is capable of being "the guy". Everything changes when its on your name. Just a thought. Our roster needs to be addressed. Ross/JV don't seem to be coming. The issues they had two years ago are the same issues they have now. Im not convinced JV has the natural athletic movement to become a dominant offensive guy (when he has the ball, his moves seem awkward and slow) nor am I convinced he has the mental desire to be a great rim protector. Ross has lost me with his body language and overall inability to learn and grow from repeated mistakes. GV is a massive liability in a man to man defensive system, and for all his accomplishments as 6th man, Id let LW walk. Im willing to give up on the potential scoring, due to the inconsistency of it. As well with a lack of height, he is too slender (176pds) to be a defensive stopper against big guards.

          Comment


          • McRealistic wrote: View Post
            I am 100% against this plan.

            1) Why trade him now. His value is ZERO and he is on a rookie contract. Why not see him under the new coach?
            2) Agree 100%.
            3) Who cares !!! Enough with the chemistry talks.
            4) Agree 100%
            5) Not sure if he is the best option.
            6) Not enough talent at SF and PF. Both guys are great bench players and not starters in the league. At least not at this stage of their career.
            7) Ball movement and lowry, This will be another failed experiment and another waste of a time. The starting line up of (Lowry, DeMar, JJ, 2Pat and JV) does not enough talent to get pass the first round in East play offs.

            We need more talents and better fitting PG.
            If you agree with 2/7th of his plan then you are not 100% against the plan.

            Comment


            • How beautiful is watching SA play with those players.

              Parker, Ginobli, Kwahi, Splitter, B.D, Belineli,Green ... none of these guys were high draft picks !!!

              This is simply amazing ... There is no word to describe how special it is what they have.

              Comment


              • thead wrote: View Post
                1.) trade Ross
                2.) let Fields, Hayes, and Hansbrough expire
                3.) resign Hayes to vet minimum
                4.) fire Casey
                5.) hire Ettore Messina
                6.) start Patterson alongside James Johnson
                7.) install an offense. Lowry, DeMar, JJ and 2Pat would absolutely thrive in an offense where the ball moves. I thought we were headed towards The Spurs Way before this season began. This ISO shit does not work anymore. It relies on a couple of guys having a good night.
                Thead stop suggesting sensible arguments.

                McRealistic wrote: View Post
                I am 100% against this plan.

                1) Why trade him now. His value is ZERO and he is on a rookie contract. Why not see him under the new coach?
                2) Agree 100%.
                3) Who cares !!! Enough with the chemistry talks.
                4) Agree 100%
                5) Not sure if he is the best option.
                6) Not enough talent at SF and PF. Both guys are great bench players and not starters in the league. At least not at this stage of their career.
                7) Ball movement and lowry, This will be another failed experiment and another waste of a time. The starting line up of (Lowry, DeMar, JJ, 2Pat and JV) does not enough talent to get pass the first round in East play offs.

                We need more talents and better fitting PG.
                Uh, McRealistic ... If you're 100% against something how can you agree with 2 of the 7 points? That means that you're 71% in disagreement. You agree with over 25% of his argument.

                For the rest of it Let's look at the roster.

                The reason you trade Ross is not because you hate him, it's because the Raptors haven't had a starting calibre SF playing the SF position for a full season since Jorge Garbojosa. Ross isn't a SF. Neither is Demar. Perfect world you try to keep both and Lou. This isn't a perfect world.

                1/Ross does have value. He's on a rookie contract, on 10 teams in the league he's likely a starting SG (decent SGs are getting harder to find), another 10 he's a 6th man off the bench. If he's packaged with this year's draft pick (sorry this team is just too young) you'll get something.

                3/I'm weary about letting Hayes expire, but if they can get him to stay for less I wouldn't complain.

                5/ Is a stroke of genius thead. Straight genius. He wasn't on my list, but he should be on top of it. Messina could have done what Blatt did and get a head coach job straight from Europe, instead, he studied under Coach Pop. Same guy who mentored Kerr, and COY Coach Bud. Messina fits the international vibe that the board loves, he's studied under the best coach in the league, whose system has worked in multiple cities, and he has his own pedigree. Love it.

                6/Patterson? Yes. Johnson? Let's see if they can find a mature, polished SF who can start over Johnson. If not, this may be the best option.

                7/McRealistic you offer no proof to say that this is a talent issue. IF you're watching these games as seriously as Thead clearly is, you'll notice that what we are seeing is not a lack of talent, but the result of numerous small mistakes that have not been corrected. There's a reason why successful teams have benches that have average ages in the 30's. It's the same reason why Hayes needs to come back. It's the same reason why Messina is such a great option for head coach.

                What this team needs is knowledge. They have size, they have athletes, they have players with particular skills. What they lack is a Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Udonis Haslem, Peja, Jason Terry, etc. --Vets who know how to win, who know when to deflect attention off their stars, who know when to play above their heads for 5 minutes to inspire the rest of the team, and who have the ear of the players and can explain things when the coach loses the room.

                You're not going to find that by tanking, or over paying someone who doesn't want to play in Toronto but is taking the money ("Ball").

                Comment


                • Here's a fair revaluation of Mcrealstic's list.

                  1. Keep Ross, let Lou go. Ross moves to the backup SG slot for good, where he belongs alongside GV. This means Gv will need to pass as he has a pure shooter beside him.

                  2. Fire Casey and hire Messina or whoever's gonna be available that will lead us to becoming a championship caliber team.

                  3. In addition to letting Lou go, let Amir go as well as Steamer. Sign back Fields, Hansborough and Hayes.

                  4. Get either Khris Middleton or Demarre Caroll at SF. Also take a good look at Bruno and Daniels in SL to battle out for playing time as we could use JJ at the 4.

                  5. Draft a PF to replace Amir.

                  This means our starting 5 would be Lowry, Derozan, Carroll/Middleton, Patterson and Valanciuanas. That's more than a good line-up under a good coach.
                  Axel wrote:
                  Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
                  KeonClark wrote:
                  We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
                  KeonClark wrote:
                  I can't wait until the playoffs start.

                  Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

                  Comment


                  • Cody73 wrote: View Post
                    Here's a fair revaluation of Mcrealstic's list.

                    1. Keep Ross, let Lou go. Ross moves to the backup SG slot for good, where he belongs alongside GV. This means Gv will need to pass as he has a pure shooter beside him.

                    2. Fire Casey and hire Messina or whoever's gonna be available that will lead us to becoming a championship caliber team.

                    3. In addition to letting Lou go, let Amir go as well as Steamer. Sign back Fields, Hansborough and Hayes.

                    4. Get either Khris Middleton or Demarre Caroll at SF. Also take a good look at Bruno and Daniels in SL to battle out for playing time as we could use JJ at the 4.

                    5. Draft a PF to replace Amir.

                    This means our starting 5 would be Lowry, Derozan, Carroll/Middleton, Patterson and Valanciuanas. That's more than a good line-up under a good coach.
                    Why would you resign Fields?? HAYES?
                    "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

                    Comment


                    • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                      Why would you resign Fields?? HAYES?
                      Veteranism, Leadership and helpfulness to all our younger guys improving (Bruno, Daniels and Bebe). Both these guys also have very high IQ, and provide D in crunch situations down the stretch if needed. Look back when Demar was out (Fields was good) and when Hayes played this year. I think we could get both back for the minimum as well.
                      Axel wrote:
                      Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
                      KeonClark wrote:
                      We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
                      KeonClark wrote:
                      I can't wait until the playoffs start.

                      Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

                      Comment


                      • Cody73 wrote: View Post
                        Veteranism, Leadership and helpfulness to all our younger guys improving (Bruno, Daniels and Bebe). Both these guys also have very high IQ, and provide D in crunch situations down the stretch if needed. Look back when Demar was out (Fields was good) and when Hayes played this year. I think we could get both back for the minimum as well.
                        their veteranism (if that's a real word) really helped this year (not), they don't have the best resumes, a guy like Tayshaun would be better.

                        Comment


                        • Cody73 wrote: View Post
                          Here's a fair revaluation of Mcrealstic's list.

                          1. Keep Ross, let Lou go. Ross moves to the backup SG slot for good, where he belongs alongside GV. This means Gv will need to pass as he has a pure shooter beside him.

                          2. Fire Casey and hire Messina or whoever's gonna be available that will lead us to becoming a championship caliber team.

                          3. In addition to letting Lou go, let Amir go as well as Steamer. Sign back Fields, Hansborough and Hayes.

                          4. Get either Khris Middleton or Demarre Caroll at SF. Also take a good look at Bruno and Daniels in SL to battle out for playing time as we could use JJ at the 4.

                          5. Draft a PF to replace Amir.

                          This means our starting 5 would be Lowry, Derozan, Carroll/Middleton, Patterson and Valanciuanas. That's more than a good line-up under a good coach.
                          MACK11 wrote: View Post
                          Why would you resign Fields?? HAYES?
                          Cody73 wrote: View Post
                          Veteranism, Leadership and helpfulness to all our younger guys improving (Bruno, Daniels and Bebe). Both these guys also have very high IQ, and provide D in crunch situations down the stretch if needed. Look back when Demar was out (Fields was good) and when Hayes played this year. I think we could get both back for the minimum as well.
                          peanutwoozle wrote: View Post
                          their veteranism (if that's a real word) really helped this year (not), they don't have the best resumes, a guy like Tayshaun would be better.
                          You had me until you mentioned bringing back Fields, Cody. What veteran experiences does Fields have? He's had 1 season when he had responsibilities on a decent team. Since then, it's been the un-diagnosed injury that has limited his play. This team needs vets with deep playoff experience. Hayes sort of fits that criteria. More importantly, keeping for an additional year minimalizes team turnover. Which has a lot of positive long term effects for a team. Particularly when trying to woo free agents.

                          Yeah peanut, a fairly healthy Prince would probably be a better option. Is Rip younger than Prince? Would he come out of retirement?

                          Comment


                          • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                            You had me until you mentioned bringing back Fields, Cody. What veteran experiences does Fields have? He's had 1 season when he had responsibilities on a decent team. Since then, it's been the un-diagnosed injury that has limited his play. This team needs vets with deep playoff experience. Hayes sort of fits that criteria. More importantly, keeping for an additional year minimalizes team turnover. Which has a lot of positive long term effects for a team. Particularly when trying to woo free agents.

                            Yeah peanut, a fairly healthy Prince would probably be a better option. Is Rip younger than Prince? Would he come out of retirement?
                            I personally wouldn't mind letting Landry go, but I like having a fringe 2/3 guy that can provide D.
                            Axel wrote:
                            Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
                            KeonClark wrote:
                            We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
                            KeonClark wrote:
                            I can't wait until the playoffs start.

                            Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

                            Comment


                            • Cody73 wrote: View Post
                              I personally wouldn't mind letting Landry go, but I like having a fringe 2/3 guy that can provide D.
                              I hear what you're saying, but couldn't they find an under-scouted college senior and buy a 2nd round pick, or grab a vet for the vet min who could fill that role?

                              Comment


                              • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                                I hear what you're saying, but couldn't they find an under-scouted college senior and buy a 2nd round pick, or grab a vet for the vet min who could fill that role?
                                Sure we could.

                                But everything else in my plan does make the most sense for us. Plus, if we brang in Carroll, he'd provide that veteranism himself.
                                Axel wrote:
                                Now Cody can stop posting about this guy and we have a poster to blame if anything goes wrong!!
                                KeonClark wrote:
                                We won't hear back from him. He dissapears into thin air and reappears when you least expect it. Ten is an enigma. Ten is a legend. Ten for the motherfucking win.
                                KeonClark wrote:
                                I can't wait until the playoffs start.

                                Until then, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they most often stink

                                Comment

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