Is Tanking An Option?

[peanutwoozle]

So trade away your better players for prospects and future picks.

Then hire a really good coach.

Sounds similar to what many propose here except that the assumption is more losses will be the outcome.

Atlanta 2012, I think, right around Joe Johnson trade.

[tDotted]

Honestly I'd look more to next year's draft. Partly because I think it would be better, but partly because I wouldn't mind having 3-4 picks in one draft, with possibly at least 2 of them in the lottery.

Might be too early to say, but the only player I can think of with star potential and can make an immediate impact in next year's draft is Ben Simmons (maybe Skal). Top 5 this year could all start on the team their drafted to and do some serious work early.

[007]

Get a new coach.

Let all FAs walk, unless Amir is okay with a reduced role and paycheque. Maybe resign Hands Bro.

Explore trade options for Lowry, DD and Ross, but don't necessarily pull the trigger. If Lowry isn't traded, make sure he's fully fit and ready to play come next season. Get Ross off his 2K playing ass and work on his game.

Package our pick and GV to move up and get Jerian Grant.

Sign Paul Millsap

Make sure Bebe is ready to play some actual minutes next year, train him well.

Continue Bruno's development. Get a D-League team to help that.

Bring back DeAndre Daniels to play on the D-League team so we can control his development. Maybe he could be a reserve wing next year.

Continue developing DD, Ross and JV.

Sign a veteran PG who will help Grant backup Lowry. Preferably not a pylon on defence.

Sign a veteran SG who will play third string, and is fine with that

Sign an SF who will share the spot with JJ.

Sign a C who will play in case of emergencies. Hopefully Bebe can play backup C and we can go small with Millsap or Amir/Hands Bro at C sometimes.



Possible lineup:


PG: Lowry/Grant and FA
SG: DD/Ross/FA
SF: JJ/FA/Ross/Daniels or Bruno?
PF: Millsap/2Pat/Amir or Hands Bro
C: JV/Bebe and FA


Hope that NYK and Denver both suck next year and we get a 2016 lottery pick.

[DanH]

No way Millsap leaves ATL. And they've got loads of cap to make sure they can offer just as much cash as anyone else.

[white men can't jump]

Might be too early to say, but the only player I can think of with star potential and can make an immediate impact in next year's draft is Ben Simmons (maybe Skal). Top 5 this year could all start on the team their drafted to and do some serious work early.

I'm not big on this year's draft. Not convinced anyone will be that special.

And it's early for next year, but I like the idea of having lots of picks to play with. And I see no reason to think it will be a weaker draft than this year.

[Jrice9]

I'd seriously look into trading Lowry because of his slide/injuries/age but I wouldn't tank.

This team needs to make serious changes on the defensive end via the draft and free agency.

I think you can and should build around DeMar and JV with the right coach. There is something there with both of them

[blackjitsu]

I would say talent. The talent of John Wall was blatantly obvious watching the game. Raptors have NOTHING near that level of player who can lead and impact a game.

We had continuity from last year. Wizards lost a much bigger piece in Ariza and added a more important piece in Pierce. Raptors have same starting unit. Only change in top 10 players for Toronto was Lou and JJ.

Raptors have a SF. They just don't play him.

Talent acquisition matters. Miami will be dominant next year minus injury. Boston and Milwaukee have already figured things out and should only get better considering their coaches and youth. Charlotte is back to screwed as Big Al is on the decline. All of this is for not anyways: Raps are a first round speed bump.

The type of player the Raptors need at SF or PF is a star. Again, see: John Wall. Raptors don't have that talent. It all comes back to the best way to acquire the talent. If we are going to debate free agency versus draft, I like the odds of the draft much better.

There are only so many star players, and only 3 ways to get them:

1/ Intentionally lose and get the top draft pick in a good draft year.
2/ Have better scouts than everyone (See Steph Curry, Kahwi Leanord)
3/ Free agency

It's not that I disagree with you, but there are no quick fixes.

Low player turnover isn't something good teams do over 1 season. It's something they do over multiple. This year should be seen as a set back, not a snap reason to overhaul the whole thing. Look at the teams that succeed. Minus the Heat (who used collusion), and the Celtics (who stockpiled talent and traded for vets), these teams have been together for years. The Pistons took years to get their title, same for the Mavs. (EDIT)Heck, the Spurs are basically the same team from 5 years ago (replacing guys as they retire). I just dissed the Heat, but that nucleus with Haslem, Birdman, Wade were all part of the first title. This isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

As much as it pains me to say this, James Johnson is not an NBA starter. 80 games into a season a starter doesn't break defensive assignments. 80+ games into a season a starter does not rush things on the offensive side, instead of letting the game come to him. Maybe, if Casey gave him more minutes (he deserved more minutes than he got) he could have grown into that position, but I can only assess the player that currently exists.

In the next round, the Wizards are unlikely to beat the Hawks. Wall is amazing. But you over emphasize the gap between him and Lowry. Furthermore, the gap between Lowry and the lower 20 starting point guards in the NBA is a much wider gap. If the Hawks lose to the Wiz, and it's on the back of Wall you can gloat at my expense, but look at the Hawks. No star. Basically the same team for 2 years. Most of that roster has been with Atlanta for twice as long. All they did was replace a malcontent starter (at 1 point, people thought Josh Smith was a star) with a more efficient player, and added a better coach.

Marathon, not a sprint.

[DogeLover1234]

There are only so many star players, and only 3 ways to get them:

1/ Intentionally lose and get the top draft pick in a good draft year.
2/ Have better scouts than everyone (See Steph Curry, Kahwi Leanord)
3/ Free agency

It's not that I disagree with you, but there are no quick fixes.

Low player turnover isn't something good teams do over 1 season. It's something they do over multiple. This year should be seen as a set back, not a snap reason to overhaul the whole thing. Look at the teams that succeed. Minus the Heat (who used collusion), and the Celtics (who stockpiled talent and traded for vets), these teams have been together for years. The Pistons took years to get their title, same for the Mavs. (EDIT)Heck, the Spurs are basically the same team from 5 years ago (replacing guys as they retire). I just dissed the Heat, but that nucleus with Haslem, Birdman, Wade were all part of the first title. This isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.

As much as it pains me to say this, James Johnson is not an NBA starter. 80 games into a season a starter doesn't break defensive assignments. 80+ games into a season a starter does not rush things on the offensive side, instead of letting the game come to him. Maybe, if Casey gave him more minutes (he deserved more minutes than he got) he could have grown into that position, but I can only assess the player that currently exists.

In the next round, the Wizards are unlikely to beat the Hawks. Wall is amazing. But you over emphasize the gap between him and Lowry. Furthermore, the gap between Lowry and the lower 20 starting point guards in the NBA is a much wider gap. If the Hawks lose to the Wiz, and it's on the back of Wall you can gloat at my expense, but look at the Hawks. No star. Basically the same team for 2 years. Most of that roster has been with Atlanta for twice as long. All they did was replace a malcontent starter (at 1 point, people thought Josh Smith was a star) with a more efficient player, and added a better coach.

Marathon, not a sprint.

You act as though low turnover and good coaching can fix everything, thats just not true.

Saying that teams like the spurs and hawks dont have star players is just so wrong. teague on atlanta is better than lowry imo. The atlanta bigs have been all stars multiple times and korver is the best shooter in the nba. They arent the pile of forgotten role players brought together by a great coach and continuity you make them out to be.

[DogeLover1234]

Tanking is a coward way out of this mess for MU ...

Doesnt mean there is a better way.

[psrs1]

I vote full on tank only because it would take getting a generational talent or perennial all-nba talent plus a brad Stevens type coach to bounce back so quick. So if you're going to go that route, sign up for the long haul to avoid the BC mistakes.

I'd trade everyone except JV and Bruno. Bruno is untouchable period. JV is tradable if you're getting a legit C in return.

Hire a coach system based with an emphasis On player development and experience working with young players either in NCAA or dleague.

If I am Masai I am looking to maximize every single player on this team through trade and every free agent through sign and trade. I don't bring any free agents back unless it is on minimum contract.

Any of one bill Simmons trade ideas were gold minus Wiggins trolling and George hill/11.


Spurs destroying clippers.....love it.

What do you see in Bruno?

[mcHAPPY]

What do you see in Bruno?

A long arm freak with potential to be a defensive menace who also happens to have a beautiful shooting stroke.

He has never been given an opportunity and is extremely raw.

You don't give up on that after 10 months, you develop it.

[Rustyy]

Is there a video or something that will show me how good Bruno supposedly is? All I see is talk about how he's great but he's never shown anything in the NBA.

[Jrice9]

Is there a video or something that will show me how good Bruno supposedly is? All I see is talk about how he's great but he's never shown anything in the NBA.

Its almost all potential and the flashes he's shown in the Summer league, preseason and basically that 1 quarter against the Bucks.


The potential is based on length and shooting and that he can learn to be a basketball player.

[mcHAPPY]

Is there a video or something that will show me how good Bruno supposedly is? All I see is talk about how he's great but he's never shown anything in the NBA.

He isn't good or great.

He is developing.

You only need to look at his physical tools and watch him shoot jumpers to see the potential.

I am not sure if it ever gets reached but you don't kick a 19 year kid to the curb with his tools.

The only player currently in the top 10 on DraftExpress mock 2015 draft who is 6 months or younger than Bruno is Stanley Johnson who is 8 months younger. Towns and Okafor are less than 2 and 3 months younger.

[blackjitsu]

You act as though low turnover and good coaching can fix everything, thats just not true.

Saying that teams like the spurs and hawks dont have star players is just so wrong. teague on atlanta is better than lowry imo. The atlanta bigs have been all stars multiple times and korver is the best shooter in the nba. They arent the pile of forgotten role players brought together by a great coach and continuity you make them out to be.

No, I don't think low turnover and good coaching solves everything. I'm looking at history, and using math. The path that is most likely to lead to success in the NBA is good coaching and low player turnover. It's not tanking. Shaq didn't stay in Orlando, he moved to the more stable Lakers for his titles. Houston took years to put that team together. Even the MJ Bulls were not built over night. Is it wrong for me to look at 2 paths: Revolution(tanking), or Evolution (creating a culture with the players you have and slowly building) and believing that the path that has more consistently worked is better?

As far as Teague and Lowry, they're basically in the same tier of point guards. Maybe Teague is a top 7 starting point guard and Lowry is a top 9. The difference between the 2 is kind of small. Neither is in Wall's league.

By no definition is Korver a star. He's a high-end role player. The other thing he is, is an actual starting SF -- something the Raps lack. How many years has Korver been in the league? It's not like dude's ugly. If he was a star, wouldn't he have more endorsements? Where has he ranked on ESPN's top 400 players list the last 5 years. Consistently in the top 30? No (In 2012 he was ranked 183)? He can't take over games by himself. He is dependent on teammates passing him the ball. He struggles in iso...I love his game, but he's not a star.

I'm fine with being wrong. If Wall crushes the Hawks gloat away. If the Sixers, suddenly become better than the Raps next year point and laugh. But history, and math seem far more compelling to me than (what appears to me to be) rash reasoning.